Debate Forum

[Renneh]

I couldn't see this suggested before (I did search) but wouldn't it be cool to have a debate forum?

I see it in alot of places and it works well. ^^

Usually a place to maturely debate controversial topics, give opinions on them etc.

An example topic would be your views on abortion or whether you think money makes you happy, views on cloning, human nature debates...human rights... ermm lots of different things really ^^

I just think that at the moment there isn't a specific place for these debates when usually a whole forum is devoted to them.

 

[Renneh]

I've seen debate / "serious" discussion forums at other places too, and I agree that it can work well, but on PC that stuff generally just goes in "Other Chat." It's sort of the catch-all for discussions like that.

We had a forum called the T-Dome / Thunder Dome where more "mature" things were housed, but it got.. ah.. out of hand, and it was closed down. :x As it is, lots of members on PC seem to have a hard time debating things maturely even in Other Chat.

Anyway though, I'm open to seeing what other people have to say about the idea. I just think Other Chat is good enough for it, since it's kinda inactive as it is and we'd just be splitting away half of the purpose of the forum if we were to create a separate one for debates.

I had a feeling that that might be the case because I thought someone would have suggested it or that it had come and gone.

I saw that as being a place to debate but I put organisation above being inactive..well actually depends on the degree of inactivity, I think it is still an active place. Maybe if it was a sub-forum of other chat it would boost the activity a little bit. Everyone loves a good debate XPP

I totally agree, one of the issues is that people can turn debates into personal attacks, unfortunately, which can get hard to control and monitor depending on how good the moderators are. So I've seen some forums ban certain topics like religion because although some people can debate aspects of a religion maturely, 9 times out of 10 it gets all personal.

 

[Aurafire]

I think Other Chat is an acceptable place for mature debates, depending of course on the topic at hand. Like Audy said...Most members on PC have a hard time debating maturely and taking other opinions into account. I really would like to see some threads on more mature topics, like abortion and religion. But you just know someone is going to come into one of those thread, guns-a-blazing, ignoring other peoples opinions and blasting away with his or her views while insulting other members. Even I'm a bit guilty in that respect due to the presidential debate thread we had going during September/October. When you're commenting on topics that mean a lot to you, you don't even realize that you might be getting hostile or hurting someone else's feelings because your so caught up in your own beliefs. =/

That being said, I think there are plenty of mature members here that would love a place to debate. The T-Dome sounds like it was pretty cool. I don't know....would it be worth it to try to bring it back? Obviously, it would need some very strict rules, but I'd personally love a place where people could speak their minds on the tough issues. The only thing is, the occasional flame war is inevitable when talking about stuff like that. But if it were implemented correctly, it could work I think.

 

[Metatron]

Personally, I think it's a good idea. I've seen a few other online forums do this, and it seems to go over pretty well for the most part.

Plus, "other chat" is a forum for a really broad-range of topics, and I think it would make sense to have a place to separate mature discussions from more casual ones.

So yeah, I'm for it.

 

[Mitchman]

Hmm i would love it. If its about serious mature thing like politics and religion dont know the internets not the place for that kind of stuff.

 

[Renneh]

Hmm i would love it. If its about serious mature thing like politics and religion dont know the internets not the place for that kind of stuff.

People share their views about matters over the Internet all the time so political views are perfectly addressable =)

Religion is usually closer to our emotions, so USUALLY places where most members are around our age will ban that type of discussion but I've seen a forum with the same average aged members as here still allow religion.

It is just a matter of dealing with the occasional debates that turn into flaming, and sorting out the culprits which is what moderators have to do anyway.

 

[Mitchman]

Aha yeah the way you put it then i feel totally cool with it!

 

[Michii]

In my humble opinion . . .

I'm not so sure. Thinking about it, PC doesn't seem like a very debate-oriented forum. Iono, I mean it could be me, but the majority of the members here seem laid back and agreeable on most things. Even with things like abortion, I don't see much "WOAHMYGODOASIDGJASDGKJDEBATEDEBATE!!" and such. Additionally, I don't think it would live longer than a fly. Any of our semi-debate-ish threads are thrown in the other discussion (which could also cause confusing with what should be where), so I'm not sure how many people would take to the new section. I mean, I'm sure it would flourish for a week or so, but a debate section would be like the reputations (where everybody and anybody was repping and it just died out mostly for the majority of people after the first three days). I'm all for trying it, but I personally don't think it would be the wonderful.

 

[Vernikova]

I could see a debate forum mainly because there seems to be mature people here. In the Pokémon TV Shows and Movies discussion, there's a Shipping Debate thread that has been open for years. So if it can work there it can possibly work on PC in general. Bmgf has a general debate thread but no shipping debates thread because of immaturity I guess. Also, we can still discuss VAs without arguments so I'm all for it.

 

[whale]

Sounds like a good idea, but michii may be right. Unless there is a large group of mature PC users out there, the thread will fail, but we can run "What if"s by each other all day unless we just see if it will work. Has my support (Even though I'm relatively new here)

 

[Legobricks]

I do believe a debate section would be fine provided some four proven-to-be-mature-themselves moderators are staffed to it.
And of course the "a moderator must approve your thread before it is posted" rule would come naturally to the section.

Hmm i would love it. If its about serious mature thing like politics and religion dont know the internets not the place for that kind of stuff.

You've lived a sheltered Internet life thus far, then.

 

[Aurafire]

It would be kind of hard to draw a distinction between OC and the proposed debate forum, because often threads in OC do contain a bit of debate, albeit not very heated ones. Perhaps instead of a whole new forum for debates, a sub forum of OC could be made. That way, it would be easier to keep track of new threads and the moderators there would have an easier time dealing with the distinction between an "Other Chat" thread and a "Debate" thread. Not to mention, it would keep all the discussion in Other Chat instead of splitting all the conversation between two forums. I think it's worth a try anyway.

 

[BeachBoy]

It would be kind of hard to draw a distinction between OC and the proposed debate forum, because often threads in OC do contain a bit of debate, albeit not very heated ones. Perhaps instead of a whole new forum for debates, a sub forum of OC could be made. That way, it would be easier to keep track of new threads and the moderators there would have an easier time dealing with the distinction between an "Other Chat" thread and a "Debate" thread. Not to mention, it would keep all the discussion in Other Chat instead of splitting all the conversation between two forums. I think it's worth a try anyway.

And a good portion those "heated" ones end up in a flame wars, and locked. That shows a sub-forum of serious or "heated" debate threads would, most likely, go up in flames. (More or less just like the T-Dome) Regardless of moderators and their job, it's hard to contain a thread when everyone is running around with axes.

That said, I'm not really sold. Other Chat is a forum that contains discussion, an overall broad forum where debates can occur. Having a forum specifically targeting these specific threads... I just don't find it necessary. For example, we had the election thread, disagreement & debates? Definitely, that worked relatively okay. California Prop 8? World War Three. I don't see why we need another forum (or sub-forum) to pick these apples out of the Other Chat tree. If you want to find and or create a discussion (which yes, can be a debate) thread just post in Other Chat. (by the way, consideration that we are on a Pocket Monster forum would have to be taken into account) Still haven't read any point as to why this is necessary.

It is just a matter of dealing with the occasional debates that turn into flaming, and sorting out the culprits which is what moderators have to do anyway.

And I'd think the forum would promote more debates, which means more likely for barking. And sure, a moderators job is to cut the rotten out in every thread, but what happens when people lose their cool and the "goal" runs off course, a lock. I don't see how the positives outweigh the negatives with this to be honest.

The main question I want to ask is... Why divide?

We have debates in Other Chat anyway, what is the specific reason as to why it's necessary. I just see the extra place sucking the air out of Other Chat anywho. Also, I think what Aura said also amps the reason not to, specifically...

That way, it would be easier to keep track of new threads and the moderators there would have an easier time dealing with the distinction between an "Other Chat" thread and a "Debate" thread.

Definition of "debate"
1. To consider something; deliberate.
2. To engage in argument by discussing opposing points.
3. To engage in a formal discussion or argument.
So we're taking the formal discussion out of the discussion forum, um... yeah. Any one of those Other Chat threads can escalate into a debate. So once an Other Chat thread becomes an argument it's locked or moved into this sub-forum? O_o ...er, what's the point? Let's look at my DNA Woolly Mammoth thread. Where does that go? People might disagree eventually on the recreation of the extinct animals so it should go to this debate forum? What about the other part of the thread discussing the article?

*shrugs* Maybe I don't understand all the angles of this, but so far, I don't see why.

 

[Legobricks]

Definition of "debate"
1. To consider something; deliberate.
2. To engage in argument by discussing opposing points.
3. To engage in a formal discussion or argument.
So we're taking the formal discussion out of the discussion forum, um... yeah. Any one of those Other Chat threads can escalate into a debate. So once an Other Chat thread becomes an argument it's locked or moved into this sub-forum? O_o ...er, what's the point? Let's look at my DNA Woolly Mammoth thread. Where does that go? People might disagree eventually on the recreation of the extinct animals so it should go to this debate forum? What about the other part of the thread discussing the article?

*shrugs* Maybe I don't understand all the angles of this, but so far, I don't see why.

You know how the religion thread someone starts every month is always locked by the moderator who has seen what happens if it's left open? That sort of thing would belong in the debate place; to be honest, upon consideration I do think it may be too small a niche to fill.
Given how few Other Chat threads actually do escalate into debates, they can simply be moved if a debate arises.

 

[Aurafire]

I think the main reason for the suggestion was so that members could have a place to discuss topics that are normally closed in OC, like stuff on religion and the Prop 8 threads. It's tough though....I totally understand that threads like this can result in flame wars, and it would be hard to distinguish between debate section threads and regular OC threads. But at the same time, people really want to discuss these kinds of topics, which is where this whole idea came from. I'm sure everyone could live without these types of discussion, but it seems like plenty of people could be capable of holding calm debates and such. But meh...Maybe it's not the best idea for a pokemon forum. I don't know exactly when the T-Dome was done away with, but perhaps if something like it were implemented a bit differently it could work. Chances are it won't go so hot, but I think it's worth a try. I know I'm not the only one who would be active in a place like it.

 

[Chibi-chan]

You know how the religion thread someone starts every month is always locked by the moderator who has seen what happens if it's left open? That sort of thing would belong in the debate place; to be honest, upon consideration I do think it may be too small a niche to fill.
Given how few Other Chat threads actually do escalate into debates, they can simply be moved if a debate arises.

Whenever we get one of those religion threads, I end up with at least five different reports on someone who ends up being offensive or when it gets to the point of flaming another member. It's happened in every single religion thread. To be honest, if you want to have a high end deep discussion debate...a Pokemon forum is not the place for you.

I don't know exactly when the T-Dome was done away with, but perhaps if something like it were implemented a bit differently it could work. Chances are it won't go so hot, but I think it's worth a try. I know I'm not the only one who would be active in a place like it.

That new implication? That's called 'Other Chat' now. It's working just fine actually. The trial and error phase had happened awhile ago and apparently...it didn't work out so well. We all know that in a Proposition 8 thread, there will be idiotic homophobics who just won't say why they are, but will just argue it for arguments sake. I'm sorry but PC is supposed to be a kid friendly Pokemon website, not a debate and discussion forum.

 

[Renneh]

It would be kind of hard to draw a distinction between OC and the proposed debate forum, because often threads in OC do contain a bit of debate, albeit not very heated ones. Perhaps instead of a whole new forum for debates, a sub forum of OC could be made. That way, it would be easier to keep track of new threads and the moderators there would have an easier time dealing with the distinction between an "Other Chat" thread and a "Debate" thread. Not to mention, it would keep all the discussion in Other Chat instead of splitting all the conversation between two forums. I think it's worth a try anyway.

I agree with you..obviously. =)

I understand some people's worries on whether the divide between other chat and debate will be clear, my answer to this is simple..look at other forums with a 'Other Chat' Or 'General Chit Chat' it is called and a Debate forum, people will always get it in the right forum unless they didn't read the name of the forum before submitting a topic.

People will know which belongs where.

I'm sorry but PC is supposed to be a kid friendly Pokemon website, not a debate and discussion forum.

I know a pokemon forum that will be as big as this one when their game comes out, it is still very active and they have a debate forum but they don't allow the discussion of religion because as I said before, those almost always are heated up by someone.



What made me think about this suggestion was I saw a new member who I can't remember who it was, in their introduction thread put that they loved debating... =) I think because they expect a forum this size to have an official place to debate like other forums do then I realized that it was missing. Although the Other Chat caters for debates at the moment, I strongly suggest having a sub-forum for debating. It will separate out the topics a little more and show people that there is a place to debate.

I'm sorry but PC is supposed to be a kid friendly Pokemon website, not a debate and discussion forum.

Kids and teenagers are quite capable of debating. Yes, they have the problem of the odd few turning it personal but adults have that problem too, I don't think it's to do with age but their lack of experience with debating.


If you create a Rules thread for debating and maybe a Guide To Debating Thread that included the topics disallowed (religion I'd say because it is usually the flaming point) and some tips on debating...for example people who play devil's advocate..what that means...people who avoid the point of the debate and debate something else (forgotten the technical term) etc. Not to take debating personally etc.

 

[Almia-Ranger]

Kids and teenagers are quite capable of debating. Yes, they have the problem of the odd few turning it personal but adults have that problem too, I don't think it's to do with age but their lack of experience with debating.

I very much agree. I am 15, and i am usually very much involved in debates. I love getting my opinion out and seeing what other people think. Kids and teenagers love it because it is like a fountain of knowledge and gives a wider knowledge of different points of view.

 

[マツバ]

I agree with you..obviously. =)

I understand some people's worries on whether the divide between other chat and debate will be clear, my answer to this is simple..look at other forums with a 'Other Chat' Or 'General Chit Chat' it is called and a Debate forum, people will always get it in the right forum unless they didn't read the name of the forum before submitting a topic.

People will know which belongs where.

"Other forums" may succeed, but not only has PokéCommunity tried in the past and failed miserably, but some debates tend to turn into a negative aspect around here, I've seen it plenty of times. PokéCommunity is a completely different bunch compared to "other forums." Tell me, Renneh, what's your definition of debate? What about discussion? Here's the problem; a casual thread about how a death occurred comes up, some people disagree, that's a debate, right? Like it has been said, any thread in Other Chat can be a debate. It's because they're discussions. Discussions and debates go hand and hand, and what is the Other Chat forum? A discussion forum, that does indeed have quite a bit of debate.

What made me think about this suggestion was I saw a new member who I can't remember who it was, in their introduction thread put that they loved debating... =) I think because they expect a forum this size to have an official place to debate like other forums do then I realized that it was missing. Although the Other Chat caters for debates at the moment, I strongly suggest having a sub-forum for debating. It will separate out the topics a little more and show people that there is a place to debate.

Like they've been saying time and time again, we have Other Chat. And OC is perfectly fine, there's no real issues with organization there, so I don't see how it's necessary or needed. If a new member wants to debate, they're MORE than free to walk over to OC and jump into a topic, or make one of their own. But, we are a forum that tends to not react well when certain topics arise, a new sub-forum would not magically fix this crack in our armor.

Kids and teenagers are quite capable of debating. Yes, they have the problem of the odd few turning it personal but adults have that problem too, I don't think it's to do with age but their lack of experience with debating.

That's true, kids and younger adults like teens can debate, but if you've seen any hot debate thread here with a touchy issue, it doesn't work.

If you create a Rules thread for debating and maybe a Guide To Debating Thread that included the topics disallowed (religion I'd say because it is usually the flaming point) and some tips on debating...for example people who play devil's advocate..what that means...people who avoid the point of the debate and debate something else (forgotten the technical term) etc. Not to take debating personally etc.

That will not prevent strong disagreements and people that take things personally, turning into a flame war. People can bypass rules, and not read them, happens all the time. If people were keen and followed all the rules, heck, moderators wouldn't have a job here. Point is, no matter how many stickies or rules you stuff people with, it won't magically repair or stop someone from flipping that switch and putting the thread off the golden path.

PC can't have or be perfect at everything or for everyone, and when it comes to touchy or heated topics that WILL blow up... they just do.

Other Chat is a well maintained forum, can sometimes thrive with good topics, and doesn't really have issues. It's probably, in my opinion, one of the most solid forums we have. And its activity is growing, by no means perfect, but it's good. It also has substance, and touchy topics that don't self-destruct. Why does a forum that, obviously, doesn't react to serious issues & topics properly need to be implemented when I don't see Other Chat failing.

That new implication? That's called 'Other Chat' now. It's working just fine actually. The trial and error phase had happened awhile ago and apparently...it didn't work out so well. We all know that in a Proposition 8 thread, there will be idiotic homophobics who just won't say why they are, but will just argue it for arguments sake. I'm sorry but PC is supposed to be a kid friendly Pokemon website, not a debate and discussion forum.

I completely agree.

 

[Almia-Ranger]

"Other forums" may succeed, but not only has PokéCommunity tried in the past and failed miserably, but some debates tend to turn into a negative aspect around here, I've seen it plenty of times. PokéCommunity is a completely different bunch compared to "other forums."

But if proper rules are set down for debates, and the rules are followed then im sure it could work very well. Im sure PC could find someone willing to mod the debates.