Deoxys-D - wow man Anti really likes men

[Dark Azelf]

So yeah Deoxys-D is starting to get recognized as a possible suspect.

Base Stats

HP - 50

ATT - 70

DEF - 160

S.ATT - 70

S.DEF - 160

SPEED - 90

As you can see, its base HP is terrible and its offensive stats are less than that of Cresselia (lol :/). Its only good stats are its good speed and amazing defences pretty much. Psychic typing also does it no favours lacking in resistances, without Reflect its Pursuit bait. Deoxys-D also struggles with ALOT of the top 20 pokemon as in things it cannot do much to, i.e Scizor Tyranitar, Rotom, Latias, Metagross, Magnezone, Gengar just to name a few. Trick also screws it up totally which is actually very common, also without Taunt it has nothing on things with Toxic such as Blissey.

ONOES 2 BULKY!!!ONE

Deoxys-D
Max/Max+ special defensiveness: 139840
Max/Max+ physical defensiveness: 139840
Optimal spread physical defensiveness: 120384
Optimal spread special defensiveness: 127072

Uxie
Max/Max+ physical defensiveness: 139476
Max/Max+ special defensiveness: 139476
Optimal spread physical defensiveness: 118944
Optimal spread special defensiveness: 124608

Cresselia
Max/Max+ physical defensiveness: 165168
Max/Max+ special defensiveness: 174936
Optimal spread physical defensiveness: 144744
Optimal spread special defensiveness: 151404

While Max/Max+ spreads for Uxie and Deoxys-D have remarkably similar defensive ability, Deo's base stat spread gives it slightly (1-2%) better defenses when using an optimal spread. You can also clearly see Bologo's claim that as far as raw defenses go Cresselia is not a good comparison to Uxie by any means. Assuming an optimal spread, Cresselia takes ~20% less from each hit on both sides than Deoxys-D.

As you can see by this post it really is not overwhelming defensively tbh.

Wait so why is it not like Deoxys-s ?

#1. Its not faster than everything so its harder to utilize the broken dual screen strategy that Deoxys-S was banned because of.
#2. Its not faster than everything so doesn't nerf offensive teams and has horrible/mediocre offensive stats.

Knock Off Screws its counters!

DARK_AZELF: knock off is a silly move anyway
DARK_AZELF: since their item can be used against them
DARK_AZELF: i.e life orb wears them down
DARK_AZELF: choice items lock them in so makes it easier to predict them
DARK_AZELF: only really helps with lefties lol

Movepool

This is the most debatable thing imo. Its movepool is insane, as in it can have any number of them and can be tailored to a teams needs specifically, however;

Something that I think was brought up before was Deoxys-D's brilliant support movepool, Spikes, SR, Knock Off, Trick, Reflect, Light Screen, Taunt, Recover, Thunder Wave, Toxic, Cosmic Power, Calm Mind, Counter, and Mirror Coat stand out. However, it can only fit a very small portion of those into any moveset, and none of them is particularly gamebreaking on the huge number of Pokemon who get each of them (other than Spikes, and Cosmic Power).

That and fitting 4 of them onto a single set gives moveslot syndrome.

Still a support movepool that big makes even things like Clefable (lol) shudder.

Thoughts ? Suspect or not ?

Also sorry if this seems a little rushed, its like 5am so ill edit it to make it better later haha

 

[.Gamer]

I think the biggest reason it should be suspect for OU is because of the fact that it has a big weakness that other spikers in OU don't. It is hit by ALL entry hazards. So assuming it does become OU I expect to see a jump in Roserades/Forrys/Tenta usage.

I know I haven't been playing that long, but I've learned that taking ~27% on the switch + badly poisoned, is really detrimental, especially when you have to take time to set up more than one thing (Dual Screens, Spike Layers, etc) so it's not as broken as the other Deoxys formes imo.

I also think its ability to wield Knock Off (lol) is highly overrated. Plenty of other pokemon can learn the move, such as Gliscor, which is quite bulky in and of itself, and use it to an extent, yeah Deoxys-D can survive a few more hits and has no 4x weakness but it also is susceptible to ground based entry hazards moves like EQ that come from high Attack stat pokemon like Mamo and Hippo as well as Earth Power from Heatran and such, which I think evens out the playing field, especially since stall and semi-stall are starting to catch on.

Basically, I think it was banned simply on the logic "OH NOES IT HAZ HIGH STATS AND IZ DEOXISS BAN BAN BAN!!!11!!one!" but upon closer inspection, its not as potent as it seems to be.

 

[Anti]

While I agree that its defenses are nothing overwhelming, I think what is being forgotten is that those defenses don't let Deoxys-D take hits from anything and everything, but they do give him a very good opportunity to set up hazards on nearly anything that can't quickly Taunt it. Remember that Skarmory and Forretress can easily be forced out by basically any special attacker because of their typing and unbalanced defenses. Not only are Deoxys-D's defenses balanced, but it can also throw up Reflect or Light Screen and make even the most powerful attacks seem rather lightweight. The most powerful attack against Deoxys-D I could think of was a max Atk CBTar Crunch, but if Deoxys-D simply throws up Reflect, it does 58% max to 252 HP / 0 Def neutral nature Deoxys-D. It does 45% max damage to a Bold 252/252 Deoxys-D. That's going to be 3 layers of Spikes almost guaranteed. Remember that set-up Pokemon only need so many turns and then they have done their job. Deoxys-D's defensive capabilities far exceed those of any other Pokemon in the OU tier, even Skarmory and Forretress.

My point isn't that Deoxys-D has overwhelming bulk but that if you blow it off as being inferior to Cresselia you're clearly not looking at the whole picture. And for how much you guys bruch off Knock Off (though I can certainly see why haha), could it not seriously be annoying? Without its Choice Band, Tyranitar does 30% max damage with Crunch if Deoxys-D is behind Reflect...there is no way you're stopping that thing from setting up.

My issues with the tone of this thread aside, Deoxys-D really should be tested. Moveslot syndrome is a big reason why. There also has never been a Pokemon like it in OU besides Deoxys-S, and obviously there are key differences. The set that got Deoxys-S banned was the dual screener and that alone basically (which is why I don't really take #2 on why it isn't Deo-S seriously...like at all lol)...remember that Deoxys-S was "just another OU" until that set came around. But I think the differences in their stat spreads are great enough that it's worth a test. Personally, I don't think it's going to be unbanned, largely for the reasons stated in the first paragraph, but there is no way to definitively say that at all so I don't see any reason why we shouldn't test it.

...Except time. These things lag on forever. Will the suspect testing process ever be completed? Who knows lol...