DISCLAIMER:
Currently, Smogon is testing
Moltres, Raikou, Froslass, and Dugtrio to see whether they fit the BL characteristic or not.
Froslass is being pushed for BL via the Support characteristic with the following movesets:
Froslass (F) @ Leftovers
Ability: Snow Cloak
EVs: 248 HP/164 Def/96 Spd
Timid nature (+Spd, -Atk)
- Spikes
- Taunt
- Ice Beam
- Pain Split
Known around here as "Proslass".
Froslass (F) @ Focus Sash
Ability: Snow Cloak
EVs: 4 Def/252 Spd/252 SAtk
Timid nature (+Spd, -Atk)
- Spikes
- Taunt
- Ice Beam
- Destiny Bond
Anti-lead Froslass.
This quote best summarizes the argument for Froslass being BL:
Originally posted by whistle
Froslass under the Support Characteristic for its Spikes. The important thing here is to consider what Froslass has over other Spikers since it's probably universally accepted that Spikes are good and getting them automatically is broken.
First, its typing and Speed gives it more reliability and stability in controlling when Spikes get put up and how many layers go up. The typing means it's almost always obvious when a dangerous move is coming (since they usually have to be STAB in addition to super effective and also backed by a high Attack or decent Special Attack stat), so Froslass won't be surprised like an Omastar or Cloyster might get surprised by a HP Grass. Its high Speed gives offense players more control over whether they want to sacrifice a specific portion of Froslass's HP in exchange for an extra layer of Spikes, or even if they want to sacrifice all of its HP in exchange for the first layer. This decision is left in the hands of the opposing player or the team matchup for most of the other Spikers in UU. Obviously, Pain Split helps it heal and stay alive.
Second, its Ghost subtype and support moves allow it to perform as a primary spinblocker on offensively minded teams or as a secondary spinblocker on defensive teams. This gives the player much more flexibility when team building because it means the slot of "Spikes protector" is already filled. It also prevents Pokemon from using Foresight in its face or from setting up on it (which can be very important for offensive teams). Froslass's combination of flexibility and momentum setting ability combined with the inherent danger of Spikes makes it a suspect.
Raikou is being pushed for BL under the Offensive characteristic, mainly because of:
Raikou @ Leftovers
252Spe , 232 SpA, 24 Spdef, Timid
-Sub
-CM
-Thunderbolt
-Hidden Power Grass/Ice/Ground
SubCM Raikou.
Raikou @ Life Orb / Shuca Berry
Timid, 252 SpAtk, 252 Speed, 4 def
-Calm Mind
-Thunderbolt
-Extrasensory
-HP Water
LO + Three Attacks Raikou, one of Raikou's more common sets.
Here is a post that sums up the arguments for Raikou:
Originally posted by Fuzznip
I don't see how Raikou does not fit under this category. Through my experience in the Raikou-infested metagame, I believe that it has the power and sweeping ability to pose as an immediate threat upon entry. There are two specific Raikou sets that I believe are what make Raikou incredibly dangerous: Substitute + Calm Mind and Calm Mind + 3 Attacks.
In common battle conditions, I've found out that many Raikou are able to set up Substitute and/or Calm Mind with little trouble and hit the switch-in accordingly for a great deal of damage. Raikou doesn't have many hard counters in the UU metagame, perhaps you can narrow it down to Registeel, Chansey, and possibly Umbreon. Firstly, all of these threats are susceptible to Spikes, and Spikes is definitely not hard to set up in this metagame. Secondly, Registeel and Chansey are easy bait for Dugtrio, who can easily eliminate these two from Raikou's sight, and can even take care of a weakened Umbreon. With the removal of the top Raikou switch-ins, it will have a significantly easier time sweeping. Also, it's not like Toxic Spikes are used a lot to make Raikou less threatening, as Rapid Spin users and Venusaur are literally everywhere.
The power Raikou packs is unbearable in my opinion. Base 115 Special Attack and base 115 Speed really helps Raikou when it comes to sweeping. Throw in Calm Mind and excellent coverage moves, and you get one heck of a sweeper. Because of Raikou's power and lack of hard counters, teams are forced to use Pokemon that can actually deal with Raikou. Offensive teams need to use Pokemon like Curse Umbreon or Choice Scarfers to be able to threaten Raikou, otherwise they can be swept with ease. Raikou is just too strong for this metagame, and I believe it needs to be tested for removal.
Dugtrio is being pushed for BL under the support characteristic based off of the following:
Dugtrio @ Life Orb/Choice Band
Jolly/Adamant Nature- Arena Trap
4 HP / 252 Atk / 252 Spe
Earthquake
Sucker Punch /
Night Slash
Stone Edge
Substitute /
Beat Up /
Pursuit
Revenge Killer Dugtrio in Life Orb and Choice Band form.
Rising_Dusk had the overall best summation of Dugtrio nomination arguments, as shown here:
Originally posted by Rising_Dusk
I am nominating Dugtrio as BL on the Support Characteristic as well. This wasn't something I was expecting, honestly, when I first started playing this round, but it came to grow as time moved on. The problem with Dugtrio, I believe, isn't Dugtrio itself, but rather the metagame it dominates within. Regirock and Registeel all lack reliable means of recovery, so they cannot afford to be running a Shed Shell over Leftovers. Dugtrio, meanwhile, easily switches into their support moves and murders them with its Banded EQ's. This is much unlike OU where things like Skarmory and Forretress have their own healing in Roost or can pick up easy Wish support oand serve a more Spike-laying, supportive role. Dugtrio can easily and consistently set up a situation where it nets key kills against any team and then subsequently set up easy sweeps for other members of its team. In lieu of this, I feel this nomination appropriate.
The final suspect being nominated for BL is Moltres, who is under the offensive characteristic for:
Moltres @ Life Orb
Ability: Pressure
EVs: 4 HP/252 Spd/252 SAtk
Timid nature (+Spd, -Atk)
- Fire Blast
- Air Slash
- Hidden Power [Grass]
- Roost
Whistle came through again with a solid argument for Moltres:
Originally posted by whistle
Moltres under the Offensive Characteristic for its ridiculous Special Attack and decent Speed. Life Orb Moltres has a limited number of viable switch-ins due to the sheer power of its dual STABs; it 2HKOs everything that doesn't resist either Fire or Flying, with the exception of Chansey, even without entry hazards. Resisting Flying but not Fire is largely pointless since Fire Blast's base power is much higher than that of Air Slash; and the Rock Pokemon that resist both are almost all either OHKOed or 2HKOed (Regirock) by HP Grass. Basically, Moltres has decent Speed and hits an extremely large portion of the tier for high damage. What separates Moltres from other Pokemon that have similarly high Special Attack and Speed is Moltres' typing, defensive stats, and Roost. Its typing lets it switch in pretty easily on Grass, Fighting, Ground, and Fire attacks (which are all quite common); since it has above-average 90/90/85 defenses, it can actually make good use of these resistances and immunity even without any defensive investment. Roost only serves to increase the effective of Moltres as a check to many Pokemon because it lets it heal off HP lost switching into these resisted attacks.
Stealth Rock is somewhat of a hinderance to Moltres but spinning isn't too hard if you have a dedicated spinner or even two, and Moltres also has Roost to compensate for lost HP. Even with the presence of Stealth Rock, it just means you need to be more careful when switching in Moltres; it's still extremely dangerous. Finally, let me be clear: Moltres does have several safe switch-ins (Chansey, SpD Milotic, Slowking, among a few others), but the list is both too small and too narrow (defensive Pokemon only).
What do you guys think? Should Raikou, Moltres, Froslass, or Dugtrio go to BL? Or do they have the capability to stay in UU?
