Do you agree with abortion/euthanasia?

[Spinor]

Excuse me, but I would like to stop the freaking fight that is happening here. :|

A fetus is alive even before fertilization. Remember sex cells are regular cells with half of the regular chromosones. Those cells, are not human yet.

Fertilization is like any other sort of sexual reproduction. Exactly like a plant. A plant produces seeds, but they are not plants yet because they do not process photosynthesis like real plants and the embryo has to live off the nutrients packed inside the seed.

Just like a human fetus. The fetus is not human because it is not yet its own independent being. It has to develop inside the mother and get nutrients from her. Once it is at the point were a birth would not be premature, then in my eyes I would consider it human now.

Also, I don't agree with any type of death. Abortion only for rapes or life threats to the mother.

 

[Corvus of the Black Night]

Just like a human fetus. The fetus is not human because it is not yet its own independent being. It has to develop inside the mother and get nutrients from her. Once it is at the point were a birth would not be premature, then in my eyes I would consider it human now.

True, but isn't a child usually aborted around 10 months? That's way more than just premature.

 

[Gymnotide]

Just because a LOT of our DNA is exactly the same as some animals, that doesn't make us animals. As you can see,

How do you define human DNA? "DNA usually occurs as linear chromosomes in eukaryotes, and circular chromosomes in prokaryotes. The set of chromosomes in a cell makes up its genome; the human genome has approximately 3 billion base pairs of DNA arranged into 46 chromosomes."

What about the people who have chromosomal disorders? They're no different than you and I, except that they'll probably die early and such. Our DNA is [I forgot the exact number, but I know it's really high]% exactly like a mouse, but do I have whiskers and a tail and am I really small? No. That tiny % of difference in DNA makes us what we are.

DNA is not junk. Where do you get that from? Seriously, you could just go inside one of your chromosomes, switch around a few base pairs, and die in seconds.

I'm taking it that you've never even studied genetics for more than 3 minutes. DNA is not just junk, it's a code for life, similar to a programming system.

I meant DNA was junk in that when it all comes down to it, it's just a base, a sugar, and a phosphate. The same DNA in every organism codes for the same proteins; we use vastly the same molecules to sustain ourselves.

In retrospect, I wasn't really being clear at all.

Anyway, in regard to the genome comment - that is completely irrelevant because every human has a different genome and if we define "human" as having the human genome, then everyone is a different being.

edit2 Oh, and if you really want to be technical, DNA isn't a code for life itself. It's the template to make the code to make the parts of an organism that give it awareness and therefore life.

Yes, sure DNA makes the human, but the human defines the DNA (as human, as opposed to as rat). Anyway, my point was that txteclipse's definition of humans as "alive and has a human set of DNA" is a bit faulty -- with this idea, humans are human if they are alive and they are human. And, uh, that's a given.

edit What if you knew the baby was going to die or become terminally crippled once it came out of you anyway?

 

[txteclipse]

Excuse me, but I would like to stop the freaking fight that is happening here. :|

Believe me, this is refreshingly tame compared to some of the other sites I belong to. I wish everyone were more like the people here.

Well, what exactly makes humans better than any particular species? We're still fighting to survive, even if we use intellegence rather than our sheer strength to do it.

And that's not the point I was making. I was saying if we shoot ducks, which are capable of logical reason, then why is it that we can't kill fetuses, which are not?

If humans aren't better than any other species, and both ducks and humans are capable of logical reason, then why can't we shoot humans?

But should an innocent child have to live with the blight of being the result of rape their entire life? I sure in hell wouldn't. The child would find out. There wouldn't be an escape from it.

How would you know if the child was willing to live with it if you killed them?

Also, based on your logic, the government should also prevent people from using medication or drink coffee, as the contents of those and similar things affect the condition of one's ovaries/sex organs.

Not sure about the coffee causing sexual difficulties part, but I believe it is required for problematic drugs to say "do not take if you are pregnant" and such.

My ovaries are mine and mine solely, I think that I should be allowed to decide what to do with their contents, just like what a first time smoker decides to do with their lungs or a first time boozer decides to do with their liver. It may look bad to you, but it's my decision, and to be honest, it's not actually affecting you in any way, so why complain?

Smokers are pretty much only affecting themselves when they smoke, same with drinkers (if laws are followed). Abortion affects (and outright kills) a person that is not you, without their consent.

And this does affect me, quite badly. Do you understand how it feels to believe that your country condones murder? It's sickening, distressing, angering, and depressing, all at the same time. It goes against everything that I thought America stood for.

EDIT:

with this idea, humans are human if they are alive and they are human. And, uh, that's a given.

Actually, I said something is "a" human if it is alive and it has human DNA. One word changes the whole meaning.

 

[Corvus of the Black Night]

If humans aren't better than any other species, and both ducks and humans are capable of logical reason, then why can't we shoot humans?

We're not better in evolutionary terms. Sure, we're smart, but that doesn't nessecarily make us better. We're better than everything we killed off.

And ducks don't go off killing eachother, unlike some humans.

How would you know if the child was willing to live with it if you killed them?

*COUGH*empathy*COUGH*

Not sure about the coffee causing sexual difficulties part, but I believe it is required for problematic drugs to say "do not take if you are pregnant" and such.

Actually, anything you put in your system affects your sexual organs, like every other part of your body, for the better or for the worse.

Should the government control our entire diet to ensure the health of our organs? Sounds nice on paper, until, woah! That sounds an awful lot like communism.

Smokers are pretty much only affecting themselves when they smoke, same with drinkers (if laws are followed). Abortion affects (and outright kills) a person that is not you, without their consent.

Well, hate to break it to you, but how exactly is a fetus going to have an opinion on the matter, let alone give its consent?

And this does affect me, quite badly. Do you understand how it feels to believe that your country condones murder? It's sickening, distressing, angering, and depressing, all at the same time. It goes against everything that I thought America stood for.

How can it be murder? It's not a fully developed human being! Honestly, it doesn't make everyone sick, and the government should give people a choice! If it makes you sick, that's fine. But if I (and other pro-choice women) don't have a choice, that isn't right!

As I said before, do you think the government should regulate what you do with your penis? Or your testes? Why should the government regulate what I do with my uterus?

A side point:
I'd like to point out right now that I am not a rampant sex machine; before having sex I would think very thoroughly before having sex with someone for a child, and I would most likely not have an abortion. However, if I, for some reason, came under the circumstances that I could not support my child, I would rather have the child aborted rather than live a miserable life.

And I'm sorry if I sound inhuman to you pro-lifers. It's a thin line to cross.

 

[doesn't matter]

What kind of society are we when we celebrate the weak and help them thrive?

A great example is of a disorder I totally forgot the name of. Before there were treatments for it, all of the people afflicted with it would die during their childhood, thus effectively removing the disorder from their gene pool. The disorder would've eventually become so rare, that when it did pop up, it would be a big event. But now that there's treatment for it, those afflicted are now able to live to about 30, having been able to have gotten married and had a child, possibly passing it on. Now, there's (percentage-wise) a LOT more cases of the disorder.

You mean an indication of a successful society is one that kills the unborn. Wow, that's so amazing.

So you think that they would have wanted to have been aborted? You think they do not want to live? Ask them, ask them if they would prefer death.

What people don't get is that adoption isn't like in those old Disney classics where you get whisked away to some home with a loving family and live happily ever after. Most adoption centers are packed with unwanted children. Living conditions are overall poor; most children don't even get an education. In America especially, children who are non-white or unhealthy rarely get adopted and they have to spend the rest of their life in misery.

Then there's overpopulation. We already have six billion people in our planet and that number is increasing by millions every month. Birth control is becoming a necessity; an abnormaly large population is a liability for a countries economy and shoving children into adoption centers isn't going to change anything.

A common pro-life argument is that the person might become famous, become a genius, cure AIDs or something. But these people don't understand that the child has the same chance of becoming the next Hitler or Stalin or whatever. Imagine how much bloodshed could have been prevented if Hitler's mother decided to abort him.

What I don't get is why people equate the parasitic 'life' of a foetus to a living breathing human being.

I am also for Euthanasia. If a person wants to die with dignity instead of meeting his end as the victim of some horrible disease then I believe he or she has every right too. But I don't believe that the decision should be made hastily. The person should consult with doctors and his/her family members before deciding.

You're over exaggerating as well, claiming that orphanages are some terrible nightmare.

But if the kids are depressed, they should be helped. Counselors are everywhere, and they live together with people in the same situation as them.

And no, killing them does not count as help.

Overpopulation, another often repeated pro-abortion argument. It could stand in poor countries where resources aren't available, but if 20% of the world has control of 80% of the resources (e.g. Developed countries), I think we'll be fine.

Two wrongs don't make a right. Plus who cares what they do with their life, just so long as they have been given that chance to live.

I do get why you folks supporting abortion use words such as "parasitic", "clump of cells" and so on in your arguments - you all try to deny what the unborn child really is: a living human.

Dignity in death. What is that exactly? All I can think of is one without pain. And this isn't last century.

Your opinion doesn't hold the same for others. Kids in orphanages are quite prone to depression. They often think that they're at an orphanage because their parents don't want to have anything to do with them. Sometimes they feel that the world would be better off without them. If you want I could pull out a number of news reports about children who have committed or attempted suicide in adoption centers.



What you don't get that condoms, contraceptive pills, etcetera don't work some of the time. People take pills or use condoms and just get on with their lives. By the time that the woman realises that she's pregnant it'll be too late and abortion will be the only remaining option.



That depends entirely on what your definition of life is. Why kill bugs, worms and different animals everyday. We eat animals. What makes their lives less important than humans? What gives us the right to take away their lives?

Nothing is ever black and white.



That is irrelevant. A foetus is not a person. I may become a person eventually but in the current state than it is not it cannot be defined as a human being.

Is anything being done about their depression? Besides aborting them as a preventative measure?

Abortion shouldn't be an option. When you have sex, babies are made. If you were unable to prevent that, whether it be just bad luck or lack of experience in using contraceptives, it's your mistake. Not the child's.

Cause I'm a human too - I empathise with people better than I do with animals. And your argument is irrelevant if you're all for killing babies and old people.

You just say that to justify your support of abortion.

Great post, Penguin.

Euthenasia - when the person that wants it/asks for it. I don't think it's right for someone to do it without the patient's consent.

Abortion - Well, if you were raped, would you want to rear up that child knowing that 1) they will never see their father and 2) the memory of the rape lingering on in the existance of the child?

I know it sounds harsh, but rather have the child not live at all than live a painful life knowing he/she was the result of rape. Also, the same for someone who cannot support a child.

Slightly off topic but I thought I'd get this out now:
The horror of rape is highly undermined on the internet. I thought I'd point that out to you all making rape jokes. It's not funny, it's a very serious matter - it's a sexual attack. Just as you wouldn't joke about someone stabbing someone 20 times, don't joke about rape.

People will do it without the consent of the patient. Trust me, it's already being done in Holland.

Would you want the mother to go through post abortion syndrome? Killing anything isn't an easy thing, including an unborn child. Not everyone has an easy life, but they shouldn't be denied that life because of it's difficulties.

People make jokes so they can deal with it.

So, when you put a dog down that's evil or something?

Hmm... I hate this crap where the line is so thin...

Anyways, people who are disabled are capable of reason, unlike a fetus. A fetus does not have a fully developed brain, and until that brain is developed it cannot possibly have potential for thought. That was rather discrimatory on your part, saying that disabled people were not capable of reason.

For God's sake, ducks are capable of logical reasoning. So if something is not capable of reason, then at that time, it is less advanced than a duck. And how many ducks are killed a year?

Besides, considering the population issue, it isn't as "evil" as one may think to use a bit of birth control. And, being male, you would not understand the hardship of the rape of a female, because a dude can screw as many people as he wants without having to really regret it (with the exception of STDs but that's a different matter), but a woman has to live with that fetus, growing in their body, for 9 months. Basically, a horrific experience is literally growing on the inside of them for 9 months. Do you have any kind of idea what that may do to someone's psyche?

And you can tell me to go straight to hell - I already know I'm going *wink*

Sidenote: I have not been raped, but I know someone personally who has. It is not something to take lightly.

An unborn child has emotions, it can feel pain.


You haven't been raped either, yet you claim to know how bad it is just because you're a woman? Get out, males can show empathy too. Did you know that abortion has traumatised many a woman? I don't think that after rape they need to deal with that.

I'm taking it that you've never even studied genetics for more than 3 minutes. DNA is not just junk, it's a code for life, similar to a programming system.


Hmm... then I must have misenterpretated something.


Well, what exactly makes humans better than any particular species? We're still fighting to survive, even if we use intellegence rather than our sheer strength to do it.

And that's not the point I was making. I was saying if we shoot ducks, which are capable of logical reason, then why is it that we can't kill fetuses, which are not?


I'm not necessarily talking about you all the time *eye roll* I only mentioned you to point out that rape effects a woman more than a man. I guess I should clarify more often.


But should an innocent child have to live with the blight of being the result of rape their entire life? I sure in hell wouldn't. The child would find out. There wouldn't be an escape from it.

Also, based on your logic, the government should also prevent people from using medication or drink coffee, as the contents of those and similar things affect the condition of one's ovaries/sex organs.

I don't think that the government should have the right to control whether or not we are allowed to have abortions. We should have the freedom to make our own decisions to whether or not we can abort a child. Whether or not you think abortion is wrong, both sides will win because there is a decision on the parent's part.

My ovaries are mine and mine solely, I think that I should be allowed to decide what to do with their contents, just like what a first time smoker decides to do with their lungs or a first time boozer decides to do with their liver. It may look bad to you, but it's my decision, and to be honest, it's not actually affecting you in any way, so why complain?

And the last part was a joke. Most people would tell me to go to hell after a rant like that XD

By the way, to all of those who are making their opinions on their religious beliefs solely, realize this - not everyone is the same dang religion as you. So keep your mouth shut unless you have some non-religious evidence to support your point.

We fight each other mostly. I don't see why we have to kill our children and grandparents though. Death should not be an option, and doctors, who are meant to heal, should not have to kill.

You speak of innocence, yet you're perfectly alright with condemning an innocent child to death. Quit being a hypocrite.
You mean somebody considers it to be a win if a baby is murdered in the womb?

You can do what you want with your body, but you're talking about another life here as if it's you. It has different DNA, different thoughts (though the unborn child does react to the mother's emotions) and is often a different gender. It is not your life.

Wow, you just like to argue. No one has even mentioned religion in here. Way to go in making yourself look like a fool (b'-')b

True, but isn't a child usually aborted around 10 months? That's way more than just premature.

uhh... that's usually a month after the child is born. You're good with killing a baby too huh?

edit What if you knew the baby was going to die or become terminally crippled once it came out of you anyway?

Ask crippled people if they want to live. Ask them if they would be alright with you killing them right now.

 

[Corvus of the Black Night]

Now now now, we don't have to get all angry because we share different opinions.

The real debate is when the "human spark" of life really begins. I believe it is further in the pregnacy than when abortions take place. Therefore, I believe that an abortion is okay. Your belief is obviously different, so don't call me a murderer.

As I said before, it's my body. I'd most likely not do it, but I support it because it's part of my body, and it's a part of any woman's body. A person should have a choice what to do with thier body.

Now I'm going to shut up now because this place has an imbalance of prolife supporters, and I'm certain I'm going to get flamed. Again.

You can hate me for all you want, call me a murderer, blah blah blah. I don't really care, though. Simply because I understand why you have your opinion, and unless you're not showing it, you don't understand mine. I'm pro-CHOICE. I have my reasons, you have your reasons for being pro-life. Rather than making it a war to prove eachother right, why can't we just get our opinions out?

I'm not going to say any more on the subject. I see no reason to support my opinions if people are only looking to counter mine rather than support theirs and have a friendlier, more understanding debate.

 

[Gymnotide]

Ask crippled people if they want to live. Ask them if they would be alright with you killing them right now.

By terminally crippled, I mean malformed, severely underweight, or anything of the like. Terminally meaning it won't survive out of the womb for long.

 

[txteclipse]

How can it be murder? It's not a fully developed human being!

So you admit that it is a human being?

Honestly, it doesn't make everyone sick

Only people that are sickened by murder.

If it makes you sick, that's fine. But if I (and other pro-choice women) don't have a choice, that isn't right!

If you are kept from murdering people, I fail to see how that is not right.

As I said before, do you think the government should regulate what you do with your penis? Or your testes?

Absolutely, if it means keeping me from killing someone.

Why should the government regulate what I do with my uterus?

Because the mother's right to happiness and freedom does not supersede the child's right to life. The right to live takes priority.

 

[Tokin]

the moment I saw this thread I knew it would turn into a debate, rather than counter arguments I'll expose reasons for my own:
Why do I think the fetus is a separate life?
because it is on the way of developing, it depends on the mother to sustain itself, granted, but so does a newborn, a baby, only in the outside, life begins at fertilization and the start of growth.
Why do I think it is better to let the child be born and then use an alternative such as adoption?
yes, children who are the product of rape and other events that could make the mother think of an abortion will have a hard time dealing with it, but, what makes death any better for them? instead of just the possibility of a rough life you are giving them...the certainty of no life at all, not even a chance to come to terms with what led to their birth.
Abortion=contraception?
absolutely not. contraception is to prevent fertilization, abortion kills the fetus, simple, and completely different.
Abortion= amputation, doing what you have the right to do with your own property?
Absolutely not, the fetus is another life, not a part of you, sohuld the fetus be successfully transferred to either another person or an artificial nourishment source, it would continue its growth into a human being, any other part of your body would either die or continue to be just that, a body part, performing the same functions as it is not alive by itself.
Why do I agree with euthanasia then?
I agree only under certain circumstances, i.e the individual in question is facing an inevitable death, doesn't want to wait for it, there is nothing to do, the individual is fully able to decide that and is presumamby mature enough to understand that choice.

 

[Ascaris]

You mean an indication of a successful society is one that kills the unborn. Wow, that's so amazing.

So you think that they would have wanted to have been aborted? You think they do not want to live? Ask them, ask them if they would prefer death.

Sure I'll go ask a fetus whether it wants to live. Perhaps I can invite it to dinner as well while I'm at it.

You're over exaggerating as well, claiming that orphanages are some terrible nightmare.

Have you been to any orphanage?

But if the kids are depressed, they should be helped. Counselors are everywhere, and they live together with people in the same situation as them.

THE KID IS LIVING HIS LIVE WITH NOBODY TO LOVE HIM! No parents, no relatives. Can me even imagine how horrible that feels?

And no, killing them does not count as help.

Then elaborate how letting them live and, most likely, suffering is going to help?

Overpopulation, another often repeated pro-abortion argument. It could stand in poor countries where resources aren't available, but if 20% of the world has control of 80% of the resources (e.g. Developed countries), I think we'll be fine.

The world isn't America. The abortion problem isn't in America. I don't live in America. Your point is moot.

Two wrongs don't make a right. Plus who cares what they do with their life, just so long as they have been given that chance to live.

What you've said is basically this: "Oh who cares about the kid. I don't, he's alive isn't he?"

I do get why you folks supporting abortion use words such as "parasitic", "clump of cells" and so on in your arguments - you all try to deny what the unborn child really is: a living human.

DO NOT EQUATE THE LIFE OF A FETUS TO A LIVING, BREATHING HUMAN BEING!

Dignity in death. What is that exactly? All I can think of is one without pain. And this isn't last century.

Yes. Just let the old man suffer before dying. It's completely moral so who cares?

Is anything being done about their depression? Besides aborting them as a preventative measure?

You wouldn't believe how under-funded orphanages are in less developed countries. They don't even get a proper education let alone therapy.

Abortion shouldn't be an option. When you have sex, babies are made. If you were unable to prevent that, whether it be just bad luck or lack of experience in using contraceptives, it's your mistake. Not the child's.

Sex is not a tool to make babies. It is a highly intimate act between lovers. Telling someone not to have sex is like telling someone not to eat. It's a natural thing to do.

Contraceptives don't work all the time. The condom might have a hole in it; the pill might not have an effect. Abortion is the only option in some cases.

Even if you do make abortion illegal will it stop mothers from wanting to have abortions? No. It'll only encourage them to have back-door abotions from inexperienced doctors that is of potential harm to both the mother and the fetus.

Cause I'm a human too - I empathise with people better than I do with animals. And your argument is irrelevant if you're all for killing babies and old people.

You're being terribly ignorant. Euthanasia should be allowed only if the person is going to suffer a lot before dying and if the old person has given his consent after consulting therapists and family members. As for killing babies:

DO NOT EQUATE THE LIFE OF A FETUS TO A LIVING, BREATHING HUMAN BEING!

You just say that to justify your support of abortion.

Because my arguments make no sense and I am a cold heartless human being.

People will do it without the consent of the patient. Trust me, it's already being done in Holland.

Then that's not euthanasia is it? It's murder, pure and simple. Don't even compare the two.

Would you want the mother to go through post abortion syndrome? Killing anything isn't an easy thing, including an unborn child. Not everyone has an easy life, but they shouldn't be denied that life because of it's difficulties.

Do you think the mother just gets up one morning and says, "Oh, it's a beautiful day. I think I'll go abort my unborn child today,"? NO. There is a lot of thought that goes into having an abortion. A mother won't even make the decision if her family members and husband don't agree. Abortion is a desperate measure.

People make jokes so they can deal with it.

Hahahahahahahaha... no.

An unborn child has emotions, it can feel pain.


Emotions =/= Feeling pain. A fish can feek pain, That doesn't mean it can love, hate, etc.

You haven't been raped either, yet you claim to know how bad it is just because you're a woman? Get out, males can show empathy too. Did you know that abortion has traumatised many a woman? I don't think that after rape they need to deal with that.

So she's happily going to raise a child that was an accident and who forever reminds her of her trauma. Or perhaps she can just put him in an adoption center and never see him again, even better huh?

We fight each other mostly. I don't see why we have to kill our children and grandparents though. Death should not be an option, and doctors, who are meant to heal, should not have to kill.

DO NOT EQUATE THE LIFE OF A FETUS TO A LIVING, BREATHING HUMAN BEING!

You speak of innocence, yet you're perfectly alright with condemning an innocent child to death. Quit being a hypocrite.
You mean somebody considers it to be a win if a baby is murdered in the womb?

DO NOT EQUATE THE LIFE OF A FETUS TO A LIVING, BREATHING HUMAN BEING!

You can do what you want with your body, but you're talking about another life here as if it's you. It has different DNA, No, it has different genes.different thoughts (though the unborn child does react to the mother's emotions) No. and is often a different gender.50:50 It is not your life.

But you created it and it's growing in you. You are its sustenance. You have every right to abort it.

Wow, you just like to argue. No one has even mentioned religion in here. Way to go in making yourself look like a fool (b'-')b

Most people are against abortion because of their religion. Even though they don't voice it. That statement was just intended to those people. Way to go in making yourself look like a fool (b'-')b

uhh... that's usually a month after the child is born. You're good with killing a baby too huh?

DO NOT EQUATE THE LIFE OF A FETUS TO A LIVING, BREATHING HUMAN BEING!

Ask crippled people if they want to live. Ask them if they would be alright with you killing them right now.

YOU CAN'T ASK A DAMN FETUS IF IT WANTS TO LIVE! If won't feel bad that its life was taken away from it.

So you admit that it is a human being?

DO NOT EQUATE THE LIFE OF A FETUS TO A LIVING, BREATHING HUMAN BEING!

Only people that are sickened by murder.

DO NOT EQUATE THE LIFE OF A FETUS TO A LIVING, BREATHING HUMAN BEING!

If you are kept from murdering people, I fail to see how that is not right.

DO NOT EQUATE THE LIFE OF A FETUS TO A LIVING, BREATHING HUMAN BEING!

Absolutely, if it means keeping me from killing someone.

DO NOT EQUATE THE LIFE OF A FETUS TO A LIVING, BREATHING HUMAN BEING!

Because the mother's right to happiness and freedom does not supersede the child's right to life. The right to live takes priority.

DO NOT EQUATE THE LIFE OF A FETUS TO A LIVING, BREATHING HUMAN BEING!



And to finish things off, here's a quote from one of my favourite debaters on Sppf:

you pro-life supporters seriously think you're doing somehow a 'greater good'; but you arent. you're making it worse. you're forcing a baby down someone else's life when they obviously cannot financially support it. why do that? why force a baby in such a poor life of a poor mother and/or an irresponsible mother? why force a baby to a mother in high school? why force a baby in foster care? we are not the evil ones; these ideals to me are evil.

abortion is for the general welfare of the country. children raised in bad families creates more criminals. i guarantee you if the black community actually aborted, we wouldn't be committing so much crime. now, abortion doesnt sound like half a bad idea for them, now does it?

so what are you going to do; let a woman decide her own life and live it so she can possibly have a BETTER child when she's ready and have a good family or ruin her life AND throw a child along with the ruined life to create another ruined life to have that child have another baby to continue the damn process.

why should the living, breathing person that already was granted rights to do anything she wants with her body have to listen to something that is DEPENDING ON HER and doesnt even know its own existence?

He's black btw.

 

[CasyCoati]

Not with Abortion, when the egg is fertilized for first time all the DNA in there is all the makeup what the human is going to be (We are all DNA). Look at kids and babies they aren't adults yet either; babies haven't got much in there heads and only have a short memory and get excited over the same thing because they forget all the time, imagine if parents got there kids and born babys killed because they didn't want them!
It's Horrable!!

Plus belly babies can hear sounds that can comfort them or make them uncomfortable!
People have to have mercy to be people or we are all monsters - the uncool kind at that.


With euthanasia is a different story, I have a realy sick nanna, she is so sick she can't even have a life or enjoy it; she moans about her pain all the time. Her bladder hangs out aswell - it scares her alot and looks realy unnatural.

 

[Snivi]

Abortion is fine. Sometimes there are reasons you just do not want a baby.

 

[Ascaris]

Not with Abortion, when the egg is fertilized for first time all the DNA in there is all the makeup what the human is going to be (We are all DNA). Look at kids and babies they aren't adults yet either; babies haven't got much in there heads and only have a short memory and get excited over the same thing because they forget all the time, imagine if parents got there kids and born babys killed because they didn't want them!
It's Horrable!!

Plus belly babies can hear sounds that can comfort them or make them uncomfortable!
People have to have mercy to be people or we are all monsters - the uncool kind at that.

DO NOT EQUATE THE LIFE OF A FETUS TO A LIVING, BREATHING HUMAN BEING!

 

[Penguin13]

Jeeze Drifloon.. Way to act like a mod.

You mean an indication of a successful society is one that kills the unborn. Wow, that's so amazing.
No. I mean an indication of a successful society is one that does what's good for itself and it's people. And it IS amazing, isn't it?

And Jupiter pretty much said everything I would have. Thanks.

 

[Corvus of the Black Night]

Well, I said I wouldn't reply any more, but... well, I guess I lied =P

DO NOT EQUATE THE LIFE OF A FETUS TO A LIVING, BREATHING HUMAN BEING!

Quoted. For. Truth. Potential =/= Actuality.

All I have to say is that Ascaris, you said everything that I didn't. Thakn you. *applause*

 

[doesn't matter]

Now now now, we don't have to get all angry because we share different opinions.

The real debate is when the "human spark" of life really begins. I believe it is further in the pregnacy than when abortions take place. Therefore, I believe that an abortion is okay. Your belief is obviously different, so don't call me a murderer.

As I said before, it's my body. I'd most likely not do it, but I support it because it's part of my body, and it's a part of any woman's body. A person should have a choice what to do with thier body.

Now I'm going to shut up now because this place has an imbalance of prolife supporters, and I'm certain I'm going to get flamed. Again.

You can hate me for all you want, call me a murderer, blah blah blah. I don't really care, though. Simply because I understand why you have your opinion, and unless you're not showing it, you don't understand mine. I'm pro-CHOICE. I have my reasons, you have your reasons for being pro-life. Rather than making it a war to prove eachother right, why can't we just get our opinions out?

I'm not going to say any more on the subject. I see no reason to support my opinions if people are only looking to counter mine rather than support theirs and have a friendlier, more understanding debate.

Who was angry?

Science has told us time and time again that human life begins at fertilisation. You can argue with our beliefs all you want, but you can't argue with human DNA being formed and gaining life.

A person shouldn't be able to choose the wrong thing.

Who flamed you? If it was me then I'm sorry you've misread my post, I had no intention to. But you cannot expect to talk about this without any arguments and everyone just getting along.

By terminally crippled, I mean malformed, severely underweight, or anything of the like. Terminally meaning it won't survive out of the womb for long.

Doctors said about my cousin when she was born that she would not live beyond the age of 12. She lived to 17 years of age and is the most wonderful and pure person I have known in my life.

Your view would probably have had her killed before she even had the chance to experience life as we know it.

I know, it's terrible that some people seem to be destined to live terrible lives, especially those born with unfortunate deformities and the like. But if they're going to die, then let it occur naturally - why should blood be spilt unnecessarily?

YOU CAN'T ASK A DAMN FETUS IF IT WANTS TO LIVE! If won't feel bad that its life was taken away from it.



DO NOT EQUATE THE LIFE OF A FETUS TO A LIVING, BREATHING HUMAN BEING!



And to finish things off, here's a quote from one of my favourite debaters on Sppf:



He's black btw.

You had to respond to my post in the quote, didn't you? Not that I should be responding to this since your post just winds up being so immature near the end, and your latest post in this thread is just pathetic.

You've misread my words - I meant to ask those people with the rare genetic disorder , not an unborn child.

No, but I imagine it's better than being, I dunno... dead.

So because the child is unwanted, we should kill it? We should kill all unwanted children for the simple crime of being unwanted. However, you are wrong. There are always those who want a child but cannot have one - there are even those that specifically want children who have conditions such as Downs Syndrome and so on. What you don't want may just be what another is seeking.

There's always a chance for things to improve in life. In death that's it, no buts.

Did I mention America? I don't live in America. Don't assume things, and there is a problem wherever there is legalised abortion.

No, I was saying that what the person does with their life doesn't make them anymore or less valuable. A life is a life.

Sorry, did I fall asleep and miss when killing another person became a moral act?

I didn't say not to have sex. I said you have to accept the consequences for your actions.

Abortion is not the only option. That's half the problem with this. Women think that there's no way out other than abortion and so are pretty much forced into killing their unborn child. Beautiful combo huh?

It'll only encourage them to have back-door abotions from inexperienced doctors that is of potential harm to both the mother and the fetus.

I had to specifically quote this part because it's just a ridiculous statement.

1. The only difference between abortions back then and now is that they now go through the front door.
2. The mother always faces the risk of being harmed by an abortion, where ever it's performed.
3. Isn't the purpose of an abortion to fatally harm an unborn human child? lol roffle lmao.

You are so naive. Things change. The required amount of suffering will decrease, or doctor's will exaggerate the suffering of a patient, family members my push the patient, and so on.

The baby is human. Human, human human. Just look at it's neck! (Invader Zim reference, had to be done). Killing the child in the womb is exactly the same as killing an adult.

Because my arguments make no sense and I am a cold heartless human being.

Sarcasm or do I have to take that seriously? lol.

That's where euthanasia will go. Again, you are naive. Ugh, so naive that you think a mother always talks over the abortion with others.

But back to the religion thing: no one mentioned it, not once. It was simply stated in an attempt to undermine the pro-life argument, even though secular societies outlaw murder and would probably agree on the scientific fact that human life begins at fertilisation.

So what if he's black? He just said it'd be good if there were more black children aborted.

Abortion is fine. Sometimes there are reasons you just do not want a baby.

Then give it up. Killing is not fine.

Jeeze Drifloon.. Way to act like a mod.

You mean an indication of a successful society is one that kills the unborn. Wow, that's so amazing.
No. I mean an indication of a successful society is one that does what's good for itself and it's people. And it IS amazing, isn't it?

And Jupiter pretty much said everything I would have. Thanks.

Was I posting as a moderator? Sure, I have the pretty badge and the different coloured name, but I was posting as a member. In addition, there is nothing wrong with my post anyway.

"Killing the people for the good of the people" should be the pro-abortion/euthanasia slogan.

Well, I said I wouldn't reply any more, but... well, I guess I lied =P

Quoted. For. Truth. Potential =/= Actuality.

All I have to say is that Ascaris, you said everything that I didn't. Thakn you. *applause*

It is alive.
It is human.

It's not potential life - it is alive. All it needs is a chance to grow.

 

[Aurafire]

DO NOT EQUATE THE LIFE OF A FETUS TO A LIVING, BREATHING HUMAN BEING!

What is a fetus then? How can it not be human? We all started out as a little clump of cells, and we all developed and grew for 9 months until we were born. You were a fetus as some point...Take a second and think. You have a wonderful chance at life, a chance to go out and experience the world and all the great things it has. But you're simultaneously saying that other people, who have not yet had the chance to develop fully, are not worthy of life simple because they haven't been born yet? You're a hypocrite. You were exactly the same as all of those babies that have been unceremoniously ripped from their mother's womb. And yet, you deny that the very same thing that you were at some point has any significance? That is sad...

 

[Trap-Eds]

I gotta get my thoughts in before this thread is locked.

Okay, I am all for abortion and euthanasia-didn't even know the latter had a name 'till I read this thread-because it's all about one thing: CHOICE. I honestly don't see why people are so disgusted by this stuff. Sure it's disturbing, sure you're probably destroying a great chance for life; but won't there always be another chance for life as long as humans are on earth? Do abortions occur so often that our race is at stake? I doubt that. And besides, like everyone else is saying, abortion is sometimes nessesary-to prevent miserable lives or to save one.

And as for euthanasia-how the heck do you say that??-what's so bad about "putting someone to sleep" so to speak, so they don't die miserably? I suppose it would be a little scary for the person about to get shot-but really, would you rather die a horrible death or die a peaceful and painless one?

Now, if all the above is being done illegally...that's a different story, but hopefully the majority of the industrialized world doesn't do that....

 

[Spinor]

Jeeze Drifloon.. Way to act like a mod.

He can't help it when these kinds of debates are started

And actually, something he said made a good amount of sense.

A fetus does not have your DNA, it is its own DNA.

A human is like every animal, multicellular.

So with logic, after the fertilized cell divides for the first time, it is multicellular. Animals have parts specialized for different functions. After the first division, the cells are technically doing their own funtions already, just that they have to divideto form the organ full sized.

So we can leave it as unless it has not divided, the fetus is at least a living thing of the animal kingdom, if not human.