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Do you view Hacks as "inferior" to Fangames?

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  • The age-old question: Game Dev or ROM Hacking. Both have their ups and downs, although it seems that programming a fangame offers a LOT more in the freedom and creativity aspects of Pokemon "game" creation. While I do appreciate a well-done hack, Game Dev just seems to offer a greater reward for the work put in. So, do you find Hacks to be inferior to fangames?
     
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    1,234
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    The problems with a Fangame, though, are that unless you're creating one with the aid of a talented programmer or within a much more flexible engine (ie; not RPG Maker) they're nearly always going to be PC (and often Windows) only affairs, as opposed to GBA and DS hacks which offer far greater compatibility with other devices and portability. It's also worth considering that not many people here can make graphics at a high level and thus games never really turn out much prettier than the average GBA or DS hack - certainty never any higher resolution than the DS - and that hacking offers a very robust and complete engine at the ROM's base without having to work to try and make a game that plays as close as possible to real Pokémon.

    tl;dr they both have their pros and cons.
     
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  • I dunno. I think both can be great, with a little dedication. While it's true that RMXP allows for much greater freedom in terms of game resources, many of hacking's shortcomings can be overcome by an expert hacker; I tend to respect hack developers much more than programmers in that regard. RMXP can lead to lazy games that look nice but play terribly; hacks, as long as they are balanced, tend to be at least as fun as the official games.

    There's also the unsaid matter of portability. Hacks can be played on a flashcart; RMXP games cannot. Part of the appeal of Pokemon is playing it wherever.

    So, yeah, my vote's in for hacks, if only because I genuinely enjoy many of them whereas I have to force myself to enjoy some fangames.
     

    tylerab01

    Pokemon AquaHarmony
    162
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  • I find it that in ROM Hacks there is not really any freedom unless you can hex edit everything and replace all of the tiles, because you are stuck with what is in that rom. While in Game Development you can make your own tiles, there is more freedom and you can code virtually anything under the sun as Luka S.J. has showed.
     

    Conan Edogawa

    One Truth Prevails
    1,061
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  • I dunno. I think both can be great, with a little dedication. While it's true that RMXP allows for much greater freedom in terms of game resources, many of hacking's shortcomings can be overcome by an expert hacker; I tend to respect hack developers much more than programmers in that regard. RMXP can lead to lazy games that look nice but play terribly; hacks, as long as they are balanced, tend to be at least as fun as the official games.

    There's also the unsaid matter of portability. Hacks can be played on a flashcart; RMXP games cannot. Part of the appeal of Pokemon is playing it wherever.

    So, yeah, my vote's in for hacks, if only because I genuinely enjoy many of them whereas I have to force myself to enjoy some fangames.

    I may be mistaking, but I thought I saw a program that does allow for RMXP games to be ported to a Ds card. I don't know. Anyways, as others have said, they both have their ups and downs. While I do have respect for hackers I prefer games mainly because more people are able to add features that help make the project more appealing. A good deal of them are possible in hacks, but it requires more knowledge. That can be argued as well, but it's a different topic.
     
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    I may be mistaking, but I thought I saw a program that does allow for RMXP games to be ported to a Ds card.

    That's impossible. You'd have to write the RPG Maker engine from scratch to work with the DS, and it'd be heavily (If not completely) constrained by the RAM and processing power of the DS. You'd need to make specially crafted games that could run under the system's limitations if you ever got a working engine. It would probably not support RGSS either.
     
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    Ven

    Tyrian
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    • Seen Mar 19, 2011
    Well, the ability to code doesn't matter at all, since almost no one here uses it.
     
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    The problems with a Fangame, though, are that unless you're creating one with the aid of a talented programmer or within a much more flexible engine (ie; not RPG Maker) they're nearly always going to be PC (and often Windows) only affairs, as opposed to GBA and DS hacks which offer far greater compatibility with other devices and portability. It's also worth considering that not many people here can make graphics at a high level and thus games never really turn out much prettier than the average GBA or DS hack - certainty never any higher resolution than the DS - and that hacking offers a very robust and complete engine at the ROM's base without having to work to try and make a game that plays as close as possible to real Pokémon.

    tl;dr they both have their pros and cons.
    I fully agree. The fan games have just limited, not all, to be a copy of the GBA or DS games, but with a higher resolution. I not see hack as inferior a fan game, I think many times more interesting, I can play them on other handheld.
     

    DarkDoom3000

    Super Pokemon Eevee Edition
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  • Hacks are just normal pokemon games reskinned.
    It doesn't give you much freedom.

    Game development allows you to do anything. break the norms of pokemon games.
     

    carmaniac

    Where the pickle surprise at?
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  • That's impossible. You'd have to write the RPG Maker engine from scratch to work with the DS, and it'd be heavily (If not completely) constrained by the RAM and processing power of the DS. You'd need to make specially crafted games that could run under the system's limitations if you ever got a working engine. It would probably not support RGSS either.

    Not really that impossible, the most completed fan game takes up 800MB of storage data, a Ds cart can go all the way up to 2GB plus the .exe of the game launcher uses 300KB of ram and 1-10% on a single core processor. And there is software to port the RMXP games over but has limits to 32Bit graphics.
     

    Rossay

    Quack quack
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  • Personally I prefer Game Dev games. I think the higher graphical level really makes all the difference; that said, when the DS Generation games are much more easily modifiable I think the balance will shift somewhat.

    Game Dev games made with Game Maker 8 have a wider compatability than just Windows PCs. You can put them into iPhones and PSPs (not 100% sure about putting them onto a DS though). I don't think the majority of people necessarily make fan games to play them on an actual DS / GBA anyway.
     

    marcc5m

    what
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  • It's recently come to my attention how outclassed ROM Hacks appear to be, graphically and story-wise, to fangames.
    I disagree entirely. I have seen hacks with amazing story lines, such as Super Rising Thunder, and Identity. I have yet to see any fangames with better stories than those two. Also, as for the graphics, I've noticed that a lot of games use the same tiles and such that I am using in my hack.
    Honestly, there aren't many fangames that really interest me. Why? Because so far I only know of one completed game. There may not even be any more completed games, ever. Hacks, however, whereas many of them also may not reach completion, they do genuinely go a lot further than most games do.
    Another thing to take into account, is that games can do a lot more. They have a lot more possibilities, however, people are not using those to their advantage, whereas hackers are starting to use a lot more of what they have to their advantage. Over the course of this year and last, hackers have discovered a lot of things that they can use to their advantage, such as Colcolstyles finding the three layer blocks, Shiny Quagsire discovering a way to manipulate the RTC to allow seasons; and idk if a post can be long enough to allow me to state everything Knizz has done. So yeah, if a hacker is willing to step into the realms of a hex editor, as opposed to using a tool for every single thing in their hack, and simply not adding things if there isn't a tool to do it, then yes, hacks can be pretty awesome.
    However, that is not to say that games are worse, no. A few games, albeit a lot less than hacks, are starting to look really amazing, and if they were to be released, they could definitely be up to par with a few hacks out there, or even better.

    Tl;dr, neither are better, both have positives, both have negatives.
     
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  • I don't view hacks as inferior no, but Game Developing appeals to me more.
    I actually started off hacking roms, which didn't go all too well, and i noticed someone saying they'd switched their hack over to RPG Maker XP. I was a little excited about this new program i'd stumbled across because it allowed me to create anything i wanted, without restraints.

    I soon learned about custom scripts, and thought "Hey, y'know, i could probably do that!" and as some of you know, i'm now pretty proficient at :3

    So yeah, all in all, hacks aren't inferior to me, just Game Development with RPG Makers opens up many more doors if you're willing to learn.
     

    Invokez

    Formerly Known as SytheXP
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    • Seen Feb 24, 2011
    My answer, yes and no. ROM hacking takes skill as does Developing a game in a program such as RPG maker XP however you have a base all you do is edit sprite/maps and minor scripting. Where as you do more when working from the ground up. Although yes there is a starter kit but you have to do more with it than with a ROM hack. Inferior no, Easier yes.
     

    IceGod64

    In the Lost & Found bin!
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  • Well, the ability to code doesn't matter at all, since almost no one here uses it.

    That argument is stupid. This entire thread is asking which is inferior, ROM hacks or fan games. It's not asking 'which has a less lazy community'.

    To me, it's not about ROM hacks or fan games, however. It's about the end result of either. Regardless of if your using a fan game or a ROM, all that matters is if you have a good game in the end.

    =====UNRELATED TIME=====
    Just throwing this out here: Most "ROM hacks" are really just "ROM mods", done with pre-made programs and little to no actual 'hacking' is done.
     

    Ven

    Tyrian
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    I thought the question was "which is inferior", not "which has the most possibilities". The honest truth about almost every fan-game on this site, is that they are basic edits of essentials. People say that hacks are merely edits of a pre-made program, but what's the difference between edits of essentials and edits of a ROM? If you learn how to HEX edit, almost everything that can be done on RMXP can be done on a ROM. Other then BlueChrome, MysteryUniverse, Circle and a couple other games, I have yet to see anyone utilize these "possiblities". And please don't bring up a point about tiles, it's just laughable.
     
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    The question isn't a debate on whether or not hacking is inferior, rather if you consider it to be.
    In the general of speaking of limitations, I'd have to say hacking is inferior. If you've got a decent programmer and GFX person you can completely recreate pokemon in something like RPGXP or VX and take it to whole new levels. I am quite sure you could create a program to port an XP or VX game to a cart, but may not even be necessary. They're currently developing RPG Maker DS, and I haven't seen much on it, but I'm sure it'll be promising.
     
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  • I honestly don't see what's so valuable about having the ability to play a hack on a GBA or DS. If you have the time to post in this thread, then I don't see why you can't go and play
    a demo of a fangame that was recently released. As for the ability to play a thoroughly hacked DS game, well any game of the like is yet to be released and only a number of hackers are
    skilled enough to create such a hack, while I agree that it takes a skilled game developer to make a good fangame, there's a difference from possessing skill, and knowing hex
    like the back of your hand.
     
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    1,234
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    I don't like playing Pokémon at my computer, and I'm sure there are a lot of other people who feel the same way when they can rather play it on a portable device.

    It still takes a skilled team to make a good fangame, too.
     

    IceGod64

    In the Lost & Found bin!
    624
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  • I thought the question was "which is inferior", not "which has the most possibilities". The honest truth about almost every fan-game on this site, is that they are basic edits of essentials. People say that hacks are merely edits of a pre-made program, but what's the difference between edits of essentials and edits of a ROM? If you learn how to HEX edit, almost everything that can be done on RMXP can be done on a ROM. Other then BlueChrome, MysteryUniverse, Circle and a couple other games, I have yet to see anyone utilize these "possiblities". And please don't bring up a point about tiles, it's just laughable.
    Oh, I agree with you about the tiles thing. That's a really lame point.

    Anyway, you're right, the question is "Which is inferior". "Which has the most possibilities" is one of the questions you'd have to ask yourself to come to an informed conclusion of which is superior, therein establishing which of the two is inferior. So I guess you kind of helped me make my point.
     
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