Does religion work in practice?

[Lily]

I am a former Christian. Reiterating a bit, religion had its uses for setting up good moral grounds, but do I think it's working? Mostly, no. However, it all boils down to the people. A Japanese church I attended for a while was filled with good hearted people. They really stood by what they preached and in that aspect, I suppose you can say it 'works.' Most Christians I come across around here, though, are so apathetic. =( They don't really believe; they belong in the religion because their parents belong in them, and it's simply socially acceptable to be a Christian.

I guess I've become pretty jaded.

 

[lx_theo]

Agreed it's the people not the religion that goes bad...
I think Religion can work if only it's leaders or followers don't become power crazy or hateful...

An idea doesn't change so easily by itself, yes. But all the substance that is organized religion is the people who make it up. If they go wrong, so does that religion. Isolated incidents obviously don't match this, but do demonstrate how bad it can get on an individual level.

 

[Everyone Esplode Noaw]

Everybody can be an extremist, regardless of the faith. Also, the religion itself isn't hateful, the practitioners of the faith are. The penchant for violence and hate comes from the human element involved.

Oh no, you misunderstand me. I know it's the people.

 

[Spanner226]

Being an athiest, I will respect another's beliefs, whether it be religion or any sort of other belief......That is, of course, assuming that they don't try to force me to follow their own beliefs and don't act as if their's are superior than others'. I never exactly understood the meaning of religion. I mean, why people came up with it is a good reason, however...........

 

[Shining Raichu]

Yes, religion works. It serves its purpose very well. It has done what it was intended for since its invention thousands of years ago. This is not intended to be inflammatory, so I will aim to tone it down at the request of the OP. It was invented as a way to control the masses through fear masquerading as love, and that it does extremely well.

I personally believe that we've outgrown religion as a species, and the vengeful Gods which are portrayed as having conveniently human prejudices would no longer serve a purpose here if we allowed ourselves to let them go. So yes, religion works, but I do believe that the absence of religion would work better.

 

[^SuitUp^]

Christianity is the only one I'd rule out since it has a bunch of problems.

 

[Deleted member 143209]

Christianity is the only one I'd rule out since it has a bunch of problems.

By that reasoning, you would need to rule out all religions. They each have problems, and none of them really have the "100% truth" factor which people so eagerly desire. Islam, for example has problems with on-going war with Jews in Palestine, thereby each has its own issues quite evidently. Not to mention the extremists you find in every faith, not all are harmful, but anything in extremity when it comes to religion; is wrong.

 

[Esper]

I don't think religion is very effective in people's lives because I think a lot of people are only culturally religious. Let me explain.

They go through they motions of being religious and feel they are religious and may even believe in higher powers, but on some deeper level know that they aren't going to get any real help from on high, that at best they're only getting a placebo effect from their belief. There's just too much else out there which is stimulating and comforting and inspiring, as well as all the doubt and skepticism. We live in a secular world. All the good points of religion ("be nice to people" and all that) can be found outside of religion so there's not necessarily an unbreakable connection between being good and feeling fulfilled with believing in the supernatural. As soon as someone does something good which isn't motivated by a religious feeling (and it'll happen eventually because even the very religious probably wouldn't stop to think "it's my duty to help that person who's struggling with their groceries" - they'd just do it because it's a kind of kind, social, human thing to do) they open themselves up to the possibility of a non-religious life with all the same benefits a religious life can give.

Not sure if that's really what this thread was asking, but that's my 2¢. Feel free to disagree.

 

[Åzurε]

-crashes party-
Never really gone!

For those of you who may not remember me from when I was active, I'm a fundamentalist Christian, and I'll only argue for my own beliefs right now. I will not endorse what I do not believe to be true.

Now, what is this thread asking for? "Does it work in practice?" I believe it does, although there are only a small portion out of all who claim the faith who actually follow through. The principles of "love one another" and "Love the Lord your God" are not strictly practical, depending on your idea of practical, but they allow people to benefit others wholeheartedly while still preserving individuality, self-discipline and self-worth.
I also do not believe that such behavior is the result of some placebo. I've found a remarkable amount of consistency in the teaching of Biblical Christianity and resonance with the human soul, or psyche or mind if you prefer.

I would not say that "religion" on the whole is either practical or healthy, and while in very broad terms it has it's place, the global community could theoretically move on from unquestionably discredited superstitions and folk religions and come more into line with what human intelligence has proven beyond a reasonable doubt to be true in the world.

I'm not good at one-sided discussion. If you talk more, I'll talk more.

 

[インフェルノの津波]

Uh, yeah. Take a month or two to understand Islam and most of it's concepts are pretty ingenious. God or not, Islam's concepts make sense in practice.

 

[Esper]

Uh, yeah. Take a month or two to understand Islam and most of it's concepts are pretty ingenious. God or not, Islam's concepts make sense in practice.

Sorry I don't have a few extra months, but could you go into some detail about these concepts and why they make sense and are ingenious anyway for my benefit? I mean, I know there is a concept of giving money to the poor and that's great, but is it really encouraged to the point where people want to do it consistently? That, to me, would sound like it's "working in practice".

 

[^SuitUp^]

By that reasoning, you would need to rule out all religions. They each have problems, and none of them really have the "100% truth" factor which people so eagerly desire. Islam, for example has problems with on-going war with Jews in Palestine, thereby each has its own issues quite evidently. Not to mention the extremists you find in every faith, not all are harmful, but anything in extremity when it comes to religion; is wrong.

No, I didn't mean those problems everyone has those, from countries
to little league teams. I meant contradictions, like why would god 'dump' his religion when he said so many time "An everlasting decree" in the old testament, to so many of the Jewish laws? And they quote things from all over the bible in the wrong context. Judaism I think makes more sense and I don't know much about Islam, but I'm sure it makes more sense. Anyways I think religion does work in practice, although I'm not religious.

 

[Åzurε]

Sorry I don't have a few extra months, but could you go into some detail about these concepts and why they make sense and are ingenious anyway for my benefit? I mean, I know there is a concept of giving money to the poor and that's great, but is it really encouraged to the point where people want to do it consistently? That, to me, would sound like it's "working in practice".

Seconded. I don't want to spend months studying the precepts of Islam. Examples are the way to go here. Also, "most" is a long way from "all". I would say all the commands found in Biblical Christianity are beneficial for society as a whole.

No, I didn't mean those problems everyone has those, from countries
to little league teams. I meant contradictions, like why would god 'dump' his religion when he said so many time "An everlasting decree" in the old testament, to so many of the Jewish laws? And they quote things from all over the bible in the wrong context.

"This is to be a lasting ordinance for you: Atonement is to be made once a year for all the sins of the Israelites." And it was done, as the LORD commanded Moses." -Leviticus 16:34

And so it is an everlasting decree. For the Israelites, not the Christians who weren't around at the time. I'll admit to not researching this extensively yet, but I do wonder whether this same logic applies in the situations you have in mind. Care to quote?

To my understanding, God did not dump Judaism, the Jews refused to move on to the next stage. The coming of the Messiah was prophesied and alluded to multiple times in their own writings, and the majority didn't accept him when he was incarnated as Jesus. Because of his actions, the law, while still extant, wasn't the ultimate determinant of "who goes where".

Judaism I think makes more sense and I don't know much about Islam, but I'm sure it makes more sense. Anyways I think religion does work in practice, although I'm not religious.

Hm. You don't know much about it, but you're sure Islam makes more sense than Christianity, huh? That doesn't sound very reasonable to my internet ears.

 

[Livewire]

I would say all the commands found in Biblical Christianity are beneficial for society as a whole.

I'm sorry but we both know this to be untrue.

[...]The LORD shall cause thee to be smitten before thine enemies: thou shalt go out one way against them, and flee seven ways before them: and shalt be removed into all the kingdoms of the earth. 26 And thy carcass shall be meat unto all fowls of the air, and unto the beasts of the earth, and no man shall fray them away...

If a bull gores a man or a woman to death, the bull must be stoned to death, and its meat must not be eaten. But the owner of the bull will not be held responsible. If, however, the bull has had the habit of goring and the owner has been warned but has not kept it penned up and it kills a man or woman, the bull must be stoned and the owner also must be put to death.

[FONT=Arial, Helvetica]If a man happens to meet in a town a virgin pledged to be married and he sleeps with her, you shall take both of them to the gate of that town and stone them to death--the girl because she was in a town and did not scream for help, and the man because he violated another man's wife. You must purge the evil from among you.

I can literally go on and on and on with similar passages, from almost every holy book, Bible to Bhagvid Gita. In no way is any single religion the best for society, as they all have verses exactly like those, calling for murder and bloodshed. You have to "cherrypick" views from the major religions, because anyone who totally follows any holy book to a 'T' will wind up in jail.


[/FONT]

Hm. You don't know much about it, but you're sure Islam makes more sense than Christianity, huh? That doesn't sound very reasonable to my internet ears.

I don't think it wise for you to make that assumption either. Not many here, you and myself included, are well versed in Islam. So let's not speak ill of a topic we know nothing about.

 

[インフェルノの津波]

Goddamn you guys

I'll edit this post as I try to find the highlighted Qy'ran I have, otherwise I'll resort to the internet, Scarf.

 

[Åzurε]

I'm sorry but we both know this to be untrue.

I'm sorry but you're wrong, and I think it's pretty presumptuous of you to think that I don't mean what I say.

I repeat: I believe all the commands of Christianity are beneficial for society.

I can literally go on and on and on with similar passages, from almost every holy book, Bible to Bhagvid Gita. In no way is any single religion the best for society, as they all have verses exactly like those, calling for murder and bloodshed. You have to "cherrypick" views from the major religions, because anyone who totally follows any holy book to a 'T' will wind up in jail.

The first quote is in a section about the results of the Israelites rejecting God and His leadership, The second and third are laws for the Israelites.
Once more, the "greatest commands" (Love the Lord your God/love your neighbor as yourself) take precedence according to Jesus' teaching, overruling these sort of culture-specific laws.

There's no cherrypicking involved. What we're quoting are Jewish laws, and not Christian laws.

I don't think it wise for you to make that assumption either. Not many here, you and myself included, are well versed in Islam. So let's not speak ill of a topic we know nothing about.

I'm not speaking ill of Islam, I'm objecting to him making assumptions about something he doesn't know about.

 

[aruchan]

Azure, your logic is flawed; why do you assume the Jewish laws to be any more accurate or esteemed than those found in the New Testament? I'm Jewish and I find Judaism, Christianity, and most organized religion to be repugnant.
Religion developed from spiritualism, and should remain a personal affair. Genuflections and ritualism are best left for those who are obsessive-compulsive, not otherwise sane persons.

 

[Åzurε]

Azure, your logic is flawed; why do you assume the Jewish laws to be any more accurate or esteemed than those found in the New Testament?

I don't even understand what you're saying here. Mind elaborating? I think I said that Jewish laws are not all-important.

I'm Jewish and I find Judaism... to be repugnant.

This was always something that bugged me- not that it's extra-important to the conversation- When somebody says "I'm Jewish", what does that mean? There's a cultural Jew, a genetic Jew, and a religious Jew (which quite frankly I don't see too often). More explanation is required if you want this silly little Christian to understand what you mean.

Religion developed from spiritualism, and should remain a personal affair. Genuflections and ritualism are best left for those who are obsessive-compulsive, not otherwise sane persons.

No person can really decide what another person believes, but why then is one's religious position "a personal affair"? Why can't people try and present opinion-changing information in this area of life?

Frankly, I am tired of the ritualism argument. Organized group participation is not bad, and I don't understand why people think it is. If you have an issue, it should be with the teaching, not the get-together. Becoming inundated with gaudy additives to the point where you lose focus of the actual purpose of it all is obviously bad, but a couple of simple, community traditions aren't going to lead an entire society down the drain.

 

[Lirael]

If people get something out of their religion then yes it does 'work', but its when people are stunted from growing and developing mentally and emotionally because they are hinderd by their ( or their childhood ) religion. It should be a form of self expression that each person finds on their own journey through life, but sadly many children are raised to follow a man made system of control, which has one of the most violent histories of man kind.

I find it disturbing when i see/hear people telling children they will go to hell if they don't do as 'God' says. so in that sense, i believe it doesnt work.

Each to their own, but i follow one simple moto- I care not for what you believe, but only for the care and respect for others. aka believe what you will, but harm none.

 

[^SuitUp^]

And so it is an everlasting decree. For the Israelites, not the Christians who weren't around at the time.

Then why should Jews convert to Christianity? If I'm not mistaken It says in the old testament to only worship one God( an everlasting decree), yet Christianity has three, the father, the son and the holy ghost. (All for most purposess are gods) So it appears to me the Jews shouldn't even think about converting.

To my understanding, God did not dump Judaism, the Jews refused to move on to the next stage. The coming of the Messiah was prophesied and alluded to multiple times in their own writings, and the majority didn't accept him when he was incarnated as Jesus. Because of his actions, the law, while still extant, wasn't the ultimate determinant of "who goes where".

According to the Jews, Jesus never claimed to be the messiah in the first place. That started up after his death. I'm not saying I agree, since from my point of view both sides have no proof.

Hm. You don't know much about it, but you're sure Islam makes more sense than Christianity, huh? That doesn't sound very reasonable to my internet ears.

Fine I'm guilty

This was always something that bugged me- not that it's extra-important to the conversation- When somebody says "I'm Jewish", what does that mean? There's a cultural Jew, a genetic Jew, and a religious Jew (which quite frankly I don't see too often). More explanation is required if you want this silly little Christian to understand what you mean.

I know and even in their religious ones there's orthodox, modern orthodox, and Hasidim. I think the term 'Jew' is way too unspecific.

One more thing. I find Christianity/Islam to be across between Pagan religions and Judaism. Like I can find the Jesus story in pagan religions, for example Hercules, son of a god and a mortal. And (This one I didn't think of myself) Allah was a pagan moon god. Muhammad was a pagan who lived near and had a lot to do with the Jews and liked how they have only one God, so he decided to pick only one of his many and he picked Allah.