Does religion work in practice?

[Åzurε]

Then why should Jews convert to Christianity? If I'm not mistaken It says in the old testament to only worship one God( an everlasting decree), yet Christianity has three, the father, the son and the holy ghost. (All for most purposes are gods) So it appears to me the Jews shouldn't even think about converting.

That's an unfortunately uncommon misunderstanding. All three are the same God perceived three ways. God the Father is the most familiar to the Jews- the one who communicated through the patriarchs and the prophets and established the old law. God the Son, Jesus, the Messiah and the one who established Christian teachings and was in the father as the father was in him. The Holy Spirit is God as a purely spiritual, calming and guiding being providing an influence in Christians, and promised to each of them.

According to the Jews, Jesus never claimed to be the messiah in the first place. That started up after his death. I'm not saying I agree, since from my point of view both sides have no proof.

Okay. However, I'd urge you to look into the positive evidence for the accuracy of the New Testament writings- You may end up surprised. I'll do some refreshing and bring a couple examples in here for my next post.

One more thing. I find Christianity/Islam to be across between Pagan religions and Judaism. Like I can find the Jesus story in pagan religions, for example Hercules, son of a god and a mortal. And (This one I didn't think of myself) Allah was a pagan moon god. Muhammad was a pagan who lived near and had a lot to do with the Jews and liked how they have only one God, so he decided to pick only one of his many and he picked Allah.

I will cannot vouch for Islam, so there's that.

I see how you picked Hercules like you did, but I still feel like it's reaching some. While there are some interesting if superficial similarities between the two, one was a historically recorded person and the other has no proof of ever existing. And I've not seen "the Jesus story" in Greek mythology at all. Hercules had to prove himself to Zeus, but Jesus had to prove himself to basically everyone else. Hercules was physically powerful, but Jesus was conspired against, had his life threatened by the Jewish leaders, and they eventually succeeded.

 

[^SuitUp^]

I see how you picked Hercules like you did, but I still feel like it's reaching some. While there are some interesting if superficial similarities between the two, one was a historically recorded person and the other has no proof of ever existing. And I've not seen "the Jesus story" in Greek mythology at all. Hercules had to prove himself to Zeus, but Jesus had to prove himself to basically everyone else. Hercules was physically powerful, but Jesus was conspired against, had his life threatened by the Jewish leaders, and they eventually succeeded.

I was giving Hercules as an example I didn't mean Jesus was a copy of Hercules. I meant the idea of gods having children with mortals was pagan.

Here are a bunch of other names of children of gods not all from Greek mythology(but most are): Achilles Aeacus Aeneas Amphion Arcas Clymene Cycnus Dardanus The Dioscuri, Castor and Polydeuces Epaphus Gilgamesh Helen Heracles Iasion Māui Minos Memnon Orion Orpheus Peirithous Perseus Rhadamanthus Sarpedon Theseus Tityas Zetes Zethus.


Anyways more proofs that Jesus isn't the messiah is he didn't complete these things: Build the Third Temple (Ezekiel 37:26-28). Gather all Jews back to the Land of Israel (Isaiah 43:5-6). Usher in an era of world peace, and end all hatred, oppression, suffering and disease. As it says: "Nation shall not lift up sword against nation, neither shall man learn war anymore." (Isaiah 2:4) Spread universal knowledge of the God of Israel, which will unite humanity as one. As it says: "God will be King over all the world ― on that day, God will be One and His Name will be One" (Zechariah 14:9).

 

[DarkAlucard]

I am Catholic and I believe in Christianity and its teachings. But I completely respect the beliefs of other people, the problem with religion is not religion, but people who regularly live with 2 faces or looking for ways to manipulate the religion as desired

 

[Speedx1994]

i dont know about religion...
i actually dont believe in anything
its just like aliens...when some one says they exist, you wont believe him untill you see a alien with your own eyes...

 

[Åzurε]

I was giving Hercules as an example I didn't mean Jesus was a copy of Hercules. I meant the idea of gods having children with mortals was pagan.

It wasn't precisely the same- in Greek myths and the like the gods actually had sex with the mortals to produce these children (which makes me almost certain that there was an element of erotic fantasy there). There was a reason she's called the Virgin Mary. These children are to my knowledge always considered demigods or heroes, and Jesus is called fully human in addition to being totally God, which is quite a discussion in and of itself.

Anyways more proofs that Jesus isn't the messiah is he didn't complete these things: Build the Third Temple (Ezekiel 37:26-28). Gather all Jews back to the Land of Israel (Isaiah 43:5-6). Usher in an era of world peace, and end all hatred, oppression, suffering and disease. As it says: "Nation shall not lift up sword against nation, neither shall man learn war anymore." (Isaiah 2:4) Spread universal knowledge of the God of Israel, which will unite humanity as one. As it says: "God will be King over all the world ― on that day, God will be One and His Name will be One" (Zechariah 14:9).

Ahem.

However the reply comes from a Catholic position, and one I don't wholly agree with.

"I will make a covenant of peace with them; it shall be an everlasting covenant with them; and I will bless them and multiply them, and will set my sanctuary in the midst of them for evermore. My dwelling place shall be with them; and I will be their God, and they shall be my people. Then the nations will know that I the Lord sanctify Israel, when my sanctuary is in the midst of them for evermore." -Ezekiel 37:26-28

The covenant of peace is the New Testament, the promise of purity through Jesus, and God does indeed dwell with us in the church forever.

"Fear not, for I am with you; I will bring your offspring from the east, and from the west I will gather you; I will say to the north, Give up, and to the south, Do not withhold; bring my sons from afar and my daughters from the end of the earth." Isaiah 43: 5-6

Reconciliation. God will bring his nation from all ends of the earth back to Israel and the temple, and so He has through the message of Christianity, with the new, internal temple and fellowship with other believers.

"He shall judge between the nations, and shall decide for many peoples; and they shall beat their swords into plowshares, and their spears into pruning hooks; nation shall not lift up sword against nation, neither shall they learn war any more." Isaiah 2:4

The site explains this one quickly and simply.

"And the Lord will become king over all the earth; on that day the Lord will be one and his name one." Zechariah 14:9

This could be debatable as even being a Messianic prophecy. The passage it comes from is apocalyptic in nature, which means it's figurative and full with vivid imagery (more meaningful to the Jews than it is to us, more'n likely). Funny detail: from verses 12-15 it sounds like there will be a zombie plague. As for the verse itself, God will rule the whole earth in that those who follow Him will be the only ones who survive the Judgement.

EDIT: They weren't personal attacks. I want to hear real opinions, not copy-pasted arguments that are combated on the very page they're pulled from.

And he is, in fact, better than that.

 

[Melody]

I won't say religion is ineffective, that's not true.

What's ineffective is taking holy books and scripture literally, and making every "Rule and Guideline" listed a "Rule" to be enforced by the group. This happens way too much when a group gets too big.

I believe that at some point in the bible Jesus says "Do not as I say, do as I do." Simply it boils down to this: Your typical holy book isn't usually a thick manual of RULES to follow. It's an example.

Did you ever notice how most of these scriptures is not written in a cohesive book form, but rather an anthology of different stories written by virtuous people? I know this is the case in the bible.

Religion is super-effective when taught properly. When it isn't, it's not effective at all. If religious texts say "In this situation, go there and jump off the highest thing you can find." wouldn't you question the sanity of such a statement if you took it literally?

 

[Åzurε]

I won't say religion is ineffective, that's not true.

What's ineffective is taking holy books and scripture literally, and making every "Rule and Guideline" listed a "Rule" to be enforced by the group. This happens way too much when a group gets too big.

I also get complaints about being literal with it. Why? It's presented as factual (He did this, they went here, she said this), and involved historically recorded people. Think about the authors, multiple people from drastically different times, places, situations, in three different languages, writing about one of the most controversial subjects people know, and giving a coherent, clear message that apparently can be taken literally.

I believe that at some point in the bible Jesus says "Do not as I say, do as I do." Simply it boils down to this: Your typical holy book isn't usually a thick manual of RULES to follow. It's an example.

Nope, He didn't say that.
You're right about it not being a manual of rules. In my mind, it's a history book. But, among all the other things, it does provide moral laws. It also has examples relevant to that in the stories that it provides, illustrating how to act on the rules it does give.

Did you ever notice how most of these scriptures is not written in a cohesive book form, but rather an anthology of different stories written by virtuous people? I know this is the case in the bible.

I did notice this. I also noticed that if you study the correct aspects of the scriptures, you can find real-world ties and put them in chronological order.

Religion is super-effective when taught properly. When it isn't, it's not effective at all. If religious texts say "In this situation, go there and jump off the highest thing you can find." wouldn't you question the sanity of such a statement if you took it literally?

Yeah, you're right. But the fact of the matter is, it doesn't say that. Or mine doesn't. There's nothing it says or implies that I should do that comes off as strange or harmful to me. Which makes a good deal of sense, considering the Author.

 

[Åzurε]

Religions suck cause people tell you what to do. It'd cool if religion was like a pokemon quest and you just discovered it for yourself. if any tells you how to live your life then it is all bs.

People have been telling you how to live since your life began, whether or not you acknowledge that. It's merely the manner in which people receive and react to the guidance that differs. Some people give you strict, letter-of-the-law rules, and others just endorse whatever feels good. It sounds like you've heard a lot of the latter. And if there was actually a right way, or a best way to live life, and you know it's out there, why ignore it?

I know too many people who really believe your sentiments. "It'd be cool if you discovered the true god/religion/afterlife yourself." Well, maybe. But then how do you prove what you found is correct? And how do you find it?

EDIT: The guy's banned? Was he trollin' while I posted this?