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Dragon Claw(Rant

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Donphan: My Fourth Love
    • 2,254
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    • Age 35
    • Seen Oct 5, 2008
    In-game, I give Dragon Claw a little credit for usefulness.... A LITTLE. But in competitive play, it is quite overrated by some people. First off, let's look at all the dragon types:

    Dratini
    Dragonair
    Dragonite
    Kingdra
    Bagon
    Shelgon
    Salamence
    Vibrava
    Flygon
    Latios
    Latias
    Rayquaza

    Now let's narrow it down to the ones people actually use:

    Dragonite
    Kingdra
    Salamence
    Flygon
    Latios
    Latias
    Rayquaza


    As you can see, Dragonite, Salamence, Flygon, and Rayquaza are all 4x weak to ice type attacks, making Ice Beam/HP Ice much more useful than Dragon Claw. Lati@s both have Calm Mind, but vs ubers, Ice Beam still packs a punch, and that psychic typing opens it up to Shadow Ball/HP Bug/Megahorn weaknesses. That leaves Kingdra. Kingdra is just about as overrated as Dragon Claw. Weakness to only Dragon type moves may seem like a valid reason for Dragon Claw, but it isn't. Good Thunderbolts do about 20-30%, so we're talking a reasonable time for a KO. Then there are those CM IceBeams/Tbolts that take care of the job. We also have Blissey, Snorlax, and occasionally Vaporeon or Mantine to take Kingdra down as well.

    Also take in the fact that Dragon Claw is only super effective against Dragon Types, making ice beam, as i stated before, much more useful.

    As of the controversy of using Dragonair over Dragonite to get rid of the 4x weak, Dragonair takes a 1-2HKO from Ice Beam, and with the right EVs, so does Dragonite, making Dragonite the prime choice.

    Questions? Comments? Concerns? Phlaming is welcome.
     
    btw, i give Lati@s credit with this move for CM and STAB
     
    dragon claw is useful on my charizard..... i have flamethrower, and hp grass(for swamperts). dragon claw is quite useful as it does neutral damage to a lot of pokes on the switch, and my charizard has enough sp.att so that it hurts.

    i suppose i can get hp ice instead.. but then i can no longer KO swamperts by surprise... it's always fun to see a swampert switch in to take a flamethrower and then gets OHKO by hp grass.

    i do think dragon claw still has its usefulness though. yeah, hp ice is better against dragons, but using dragon claw+hp grass gives my charizard more type coverage.
     
    c_dog said:
    dragon claw is useful on my charizard..... i have flamethrower, and hp grass(for swamperts). dragon claw is quite useful as it does neutral damage to a lot of pokes on the switch, and my charizard has enough sp.att so that it hurts.

    i suppose i can get hp ice instead.. but then i can no longer KO swamperts by surprise... it's always fun to see a swampert switch in to take a flamethrower and then gets OHKO by hp grass.

    i do think dragon claw still has its usefulness though. yeah, hp ice is better against dragons, but using dragon claw+hp grass gives my charizard more type coverage.
    Click to expand...

    True c-dog it does give your charizard more type coverage, but some pokemon are good with d/claw but yet some are best of with t/bolt and ice beam . :snea:
     
    indeed. Here's a comment from my friend on another forum:

    Any dragon type move is much more useful in game than it is in NB. I never understand people, when they do use Kingdra, opt for using Dragonbreath, just because they're looking for parahax. First off, if you're using the proper Kingdra set, you're going faster than everyone except Ninjask/Electrode after one turn. Second off, the Dragonbreath slot can be used to screw over your opponent in an entirely different way, such as Toxic, Attract (I have used it =D) or EndureFlail.

    Overall, there are far better moves you can give a dragon type besides a dragon move, for any one of them.

    And Dragonair over Dragonite? If you're that scared of Ice Beam, you shouldn't be playing.
    Click to expand...
     
    I wanted to add this in that previous post, but i keep getting logged off like every 2 minutes for some reason. But a base 80 power move doing neutral damage on an opponent without STAB (i.e. Sceptile using Dragon Claw), isn't bad, but usually not too good either. It doesn't even get an added effect like Crunch. So unless it's Lati@s using it, it feels like a wasted Moveslot. Especially when there are other moves that do it better along with moves that help support it in type coverage, such as boltbeaming.
     
    charizard cant boltbeam... it's not an option for him. flamethrower+hp grass+dragon claw+endure+max sp.att EV+modest @ salac works for me. i'm not talking in-game either, my charizard is pretty good, if i may say so myself, in netbattle. for special sweeperts like charizard that can't bolt beam, dragon claw has its use.
     
    Some people also prefer FlameClaw on Dragonite as opposed to BoltBeam.
     
    i don't NB so i use D-claw a lot on my pokemon because i have no link cable or gameshark to get TMs better than this more than once. I'll admit that ice beam is wya more effective against dragons than d-claw but for some special sweeping pokemon that can't learn ice beam and you need 2 fill that last move slot, *cough Sceptile cough* d-claw is better.

    WOOT!!! 100th post!!!
     
    Well, Charizard's cool and all, but I prefer to use other things. Especially with DDSala walking all over in the OU metagame. I know there's no other choice for Special Charizard but D.Claw (lame Nintendo, very lame), but Dragon Dance/Swords Dance + EQ and/or HP Flying is a little more useful IMO, just so Blissey doesn't start raping.
     
    And btw

    Fury of Ninetales said:
    i don't NB so i use D-claw a lot on my pokemon because i have no link cable or gameshark to get TMs better than this more than once. I'll admit that ice beam is wya more effective against dragons than d-claw but for some special sweeping pokemon that can't learn ice beam and you need 2 fill that last move slot, *cough Sceptile cough* d-claw is better.

    WOOT!!! 100th post!!!
    Click to expand...


    That's why HP Ice is kinda standard on Sceptile
     
    Flameclaw is a very effective combo for a spec sweeper. Why is being guaranteed a neutral hit or better bad? And Zard can beat Kingdra with D Claw. I have done it before on Netbattle, even yesterday.(I have also swept almost a whole team with my e4 espy, but let's not go there).
     
    Heh Char beating Kingdra with Dragon Claw? Almost impossible without a critical hit. Dragon Claw is usually only a 2HKO on Dragon types, where as a Kingdra + Rain Dance + Surf will Take Char out before it gets a chance to hit it again. And BoltBeaming is still a much better tactic to use than flameclaw for Draggy, as its resisted by less types, covers a good amount of type weaknesses, has more power combined than that of flameclaw, and both have extra effects.
     
    If the EVs are right, and you have leftovers, it prolly will take on Char anyway. Either way, Kingdra's overrated, idk why I'm even defending it's position.
     
    well, charizard is a sentimental favorite of mine so that's why i use it. i could care less if kingdra can beat charizard(it's water vs. fire so it better win), but charizard does have its uses. the good thing about special zards are that people ALWAYS expect that DD one and so the special zard makes for a very nice surprise. if i were to use physical i like the bellyzard better anyway. charizard is weak, so if you're good enough to time a DD you might as well time a sub and then belly drum and then sweep. but like i said, i find special zard to be the most useful for my team's purposes anyway.
     
    Ham said:
    the good thing about charizard is that it makes Salamence look even better.
    Click to expand...

    salamence is usually used as a combo sweeper or physical. my charizard is a special sweepert(hence not really comparable) and it pwn's mence one on one anyday.

    turn1
    charizard uses dragon claw
    salamence uses DD

    turn2
    charizard braces it self
    salamence uses rockslide
    charizard endures the hit-salac activates

    turn3
    charizard uses dragon claw
    salamence fainted

    and charizard with salac goes on to pwn entire teams with flamethrower@blaze, granted blissey has been taken out. that's how special my zard is, it's unpredictable. hardly anybody's seen this moveset before.
     
    STOP ****ING THINKING THAT A ONE ON ONE DEUL IS THE ONLY FACTOR IN A WHICH IS BETTER CONTEST DAMMIT.

    I've had Salamence sweep teams on multiple occasions. and Charizard has way to many ****ing weaknesses.
     
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