First Expanded Kanto Map Experiment

[Quantum Thief]

This is my first attempt at map editing using Advance Maps. Since my test file just beat Misty, I decided to begin with Route 24, as it (conceptually) is an interesting area that isn't very well realized in FireRed, compared to what it could be.

Most obviously, I've increased the elevation apparent from the north side, turning what was in the original map a level lakeside into a cliff that overlooks what I'm imagining to be crater lake contained inside the Mt. Moon mountain range. I gave the map some more breathing room, with open space to the right of the flower patch and extending the map eastward about 10 tiles, leading towards Route 25 and Bill's house.

Obviously I ran into some snags, since it was my first try and all. I don't think I fully executed Nugget bridge to the extent that it could be. It doesn't have a sense of elevation over the lake, and the point where it merges with the cliffside is totally botched. This could probably be fixed with a better tileset, but at the very least I'll probably rebuild the part of the map where the bridge reaches the rocky bluff. I'd also like to add maybe a waterfall descending from the rockface and into a sink hole between the two ledges on the north edge, then emerging from the cliffside left of the bridge, as if the water is falling down from a higher watershed in the mountains, down an underground cavern, and emptying into the lake. Is there a waterfall tileset in FireRed I can use?

For comparison, below is the original map for Route 24.

Thoughts? Suggestions? Tips and tricks to help me make this better in general?

 

[Nex]

I marked you all the map errors :)

 

[Quantum Thief]

I appreciate that! I didn't realize that I had the wrong tiles on the large rock formation on the right side of the map.

In my defense, the ledge errors you point out at the top of the map are actually from the original files. I don't think they are errors, I think that's how FireRed visualizes that topography.

 

[Nex]

Np but I always change that with ledges...my bad

 

[machomuu]

Hm...I have to wonder what lengthening the bridge itself would contribute. It allows for more battles, sure, but would that really be more fun, or would it just be annoying, with the player asking why they're doing it (even if there are the same number of battles, the purpose it would serve would be...well, basically to be a long bridge). The original bridge worked because it was brief, but you quickly knew that you were getting somewhere.

Because ultimately, the sense of adventure isn't in crossing the bridge, it's in battling the trainers to get the prize, but there's a sense of satisfaction in seeing the green and seeing that, beyond the bridge, there are two ways to go. Now don't get me wrong, I'm all for the expansion of the map, but I'm not sure how much expanding the bridge would do from a gameplay standpoint.

 

[Quantum Thief]

Hm...I have to wonder what lengthening the bridge itself would contribute. It allows for more battles, sure, but would that really be more fun, or would it just be annoying, with the player asking why they're doing it (even if there are the same number of battles, the purpose it would serve would be...well, basically to be a long bridge). The original bridge worked because it was brief, but you quickly knew that you were getting somewhere.

Because ultimately, the sense of adventure isn't in crossing the bridge, it's in battling the trainers to get the prize, but there's a sense of satisfaction in seeing the green and seeing that, beyond the bridge, there are two ways to go. Now don't get me wrong, I'm all for the expansion of the map, but I'm not sure how much expanding the bridge would do from a gameplay standpoint.

Agreed 100%. For this first experiment my goal was to just see how I can expand the area in a very basic way, as well as figure out how best to build elevation, something that Fire Red doesn't have a lot of good examples at.

The next step that I'm working on now is outlined somewhat in the below image:

I'll reduce the Bridge back down to something resembling its original size, though I don't mind the extra length creating a bit more breathing room. From there, you can see a series of level areas reaching in a north east direction, linked by either bridges or stairs to increase elevation. The overall topography should convey the idea that the player is traversing a series of cliffside paths progressing up the side of a mountain that overlooks a large lake. Depending on how much open space this set-up creates on the lake, I think I can also fit a small island in the lake as well. This path arcs around the mountain face and links to Route 25, which continues to curl around until it terminates in Bill's cottage, which overlooks both the lake and Cerulean City below.

Unfortunately FireRed is kind of short on bridge tilesets, so I may have to improvise.

 

[Quantum Thief]

You wouldn't necessarily have to add more trainers - perhaps the trainers can be a bit more spaced out, and maybe allow for some events to occur or something.

Mapping errors aside, the idea of expanding Kanto would be a neat idea - but what about events - would you want to make your own events or make them canon to the anime?

Ultimately, I think my long term goal is to create an expanded Kanto experience using something like the Unnamed FireRed 721 Project as a Rombase to bring in the full Pokedex currently in existence. There's no way for the existing Kanto map to sustain that many pokemon and still be, you know, playable, so by expanding the routes to make it feel less cramped and attaching new areas, I'm hoping that it will have enough breathing room to be fun and interesting.

As far as events go, I'd pretty much limiting it to interesting scenarios involving non-FireRed legendaries and acquiring hold items from Gens IV onward.

 

[Quantum Thief]

Update: See below.

Spoiler:

Obviously some big changes here. In order to make the transition into the higher elevation smoother, I completely changed the design of the Nugget bridge itself. The result is something that looks better when abutted against both rock and water while still having the appearance of a bridge, but obviously comes with some dowsides:

1.) I'll need to change the starting point of the bridge in Cerulean city to match

2.) Because the bridge doesn't have guardrails anymore, I'm not sure what I can do to prevent a player from surfing off the edge of the bridge, inspite of the fact that it's supposed to be like 50 feet in the air.

I think I may need a custom tileset to really make this work, as the Nugget bridge itself simply doesn't work for this new topography.

I've extended the map vertically, while also moving the original area downwards somewhat so the bridge isn't as elongated as it initially was. With the extra space up top I've increases the elevation of the cliffs and given myself some breathing room to continue the route's skyward climb. Towards the east, I've added the first new section of Route, seperated by a bridge overlooking a waterfall, which poses the same challenges as the nugget bridge itself, vis a vis surfing.

where the old part of the route terminates, I've attempted to create a sense of a sheer cliff, which is something that FireRed's tilesets aren't naturally suited for. They lend themselves more to gradual slopes, but I hope that the perspective works for what I'm aiming for.

All this work has also purchased a looot of lake real-estate, so I'll be looking for something interesting to put down there, probably linked to the upper part of the route by a series of tunnels.

Thoughts? Suggestions for how to approach my tileset problems?

 

[BadEgg~]

Maybe you could put some small islands or have a path run underneath the bridge with more trainers/wild grass? To have such a large portion of the map be covered in water seems like a bit of a waste of space and just makes the map look empty in my opinion. If you 'duplicate' the tiles and change their behaviour bytes, I think it's possible to be able to walk both above and below the tiles that make up the bridge.

 

[Nex]