4th Gen Flash, Defog?

[SDODC13]

Hell for all we know they might just make whirlpool HM09. As said before they wouldnt replace the pre existing ones so unlike removing one like they did with Fr/Lg they could just add one. Flash though will will be a tm.

 

[The Roshi]

A new TM wouldn't work because again compatability issues. DPPt has no data regarding a TM Whirpool so the idea of this wouldn't work unless a new generation comes out with it. Even then, HeartGold and SoulSilver simply really cannot introduce any highly new items that wasn't really brought in since Platinum. This is of course is by speculating that the fourth generation games before HeartGold and SoulSilver have no data on them like they do with Johto as shown before. However, no, a new TM wouldn't match up too well as it simply being a Move Tutor for the most part or another HM replacing one not needed.

How do you know that d/p/pt has no info regarding whirlpool?

 

[SDODC13]

How do you know that d/p/pt has no info regarding whirlpool?

The thing is we dont. *shrugs* They obviously know what they are doing. We will see in a few months.

 

[Guy]

Hell for all we know they might just make whirlpool HM09. As said before they wouldnt replace the pre existing ones so unlike removing one like they did with Fr/Lg they could just add one. Flash though will will be a tm.

Oh! A nineth HM, now that will be something new. ^_^ Also, it could work out evenly if we have all sixteen gyms included once more. Though, after such a long period of on going eight HMs, then I don't think they will add in a new one, especially seeing this is more of a remake than a new game or generation as a whole. Though, I agree Flash because of DPPt, will be more than likely kept as a TM, while Whirlpool may or may not replace one of the newer HMs that possibly may not be needed.

How do you know that d/p/pt has no info regarding whirlpool?

DPPt does have Whirlpool into their coding as a move and as a Move Tutor I believe. However, if it were to have data on it as a TM, then instead of it being available through tutors, they could have simply made it easily obtainable in the game already as a TM. So, for it to be a TM here, it more than likely would have been known as a TM in DPPt a long time ago since Diamond and Peal were released.

So, with this being said DPPt probably doesn't have data on a 93rd TM. Not to mention, we've basically got 100 moves easily found, so any more can pretty much wait for the new generation in my opinion. Though, with Pokémon anything is possible so I won't deny it, but still the thought of it happening is kind of slim when there are other methods of using it to cope with compatability.

 

[s0nido]

As far as I can remember, the only place you needed flash in G/S was Mt. Mortar and Dark Cave and maybe Rock Tunnel in Kanto, but I'm not sure.

If turning Flash into an HM is a problem, we can see what happens if they turn those caves foggy instead of pitch-black.

I'm more concerned with Whirlpool, however...

Yeah, probably. That's actually a good idea, seeing as how they can't change the moveset because of compatibility issues. I agree with you, and I think that the games will replace Flash with Defog and make the necessary changes to the storyline accommodate this change in movesets.

 

[Ellie]

True, it is possible to just change the HMs in there. I don't think they'd bother for Defog since Flash is a TM already (though they might... even though Flash actually wasn't used too much in GSC. In fact I never bothered putting Flash on my Pokemon because everything was navigable without it), but it'd be pretty easy to replace Rock Climb with it since GSC doesn't use that. I think that's the more likely choice now that I think more about it, since HM's can't be transferred.

 

[AuraAshley]

i realy hope they take defog and flash out of the game. i personally think those two moves are completly pointless

 

[Late]

If they make Flash as TM then Rock Smash can be a HM. Game needs more to Smash and more to Flash! You can use Flash after you beat Falkner and why? Because there's one item in Dark Cave (and that can be obtained by just walking in the dark) near Violet City? (You can't get deeper than that at the beginning...) So, Flash is useless in HeartGold and SoulSilver if they don't make more caves to Flash. Rock Smash is needed if you want catch Shuckle (you can have it by one man also..). And I think you don't need Rock Smash in the caves when playing Gold and Silver. And last thing Defog. It's horrible HM and I really don't want it to be in HeartGold and SoulSilver because that ruins whole game! Gold is best pokémon game at the moment and this one could be even better, so leave Defog to D/P/P! We don't need new HMs to remake.

 

[Blue Nocturne]

Blue Nocturnes view:
Keep rock smash as HM06 and give it a more prominent role, some obvious examples for use include ice cave (maybe even a block of ice for it), dark cave, you get the idea.
Keep defog as HM05, make all (or most) of the flash caves foggy instead (and maybe have a route or two foggy to make it more useful) and make flash available in the department store.
Make whirlpool HM08, rock climb isn't needed (although it was an OK battle move)
Give HM07 waterfall more use, in all the games its very neglected.

 

[Ineffable~]

You have the best ideas so far. ;D

 

[jbs829]

If they add new HMs after the national dex, it will probably be rock climb, the rest of the HMs will be the exact same as GSC. In FR/LG, the HMs were the same, until you got to the island, where you got 2 more. but i guarantee that they wont have defog as an hm in HGSS

 

[Meadow]

I think Flash and Whirlpool will be HMs again. I mean, it's not like you can trade HMs from game to game, as it would say this item cannot be held. Probably in HG/SS, you will be banned from trading TM's to others or recieving them via trade.

 

[Ellie]

Tbh, I don't really want HM's to have an extremely prominent role. I found it annoying to have to stick an otherwise-useless move on my Pokemon just to get through some cave or route or something. I think the amount of use they get now is fine, maybe even make it a bit less than it is. And I don't think they'll utilize Rock Climb. The didn't utilize Dive in FrLg, so there's no reason to, since there's no rock walls in Johto.

 

[dotKarma]

They better bring flash and whirlpool back. I absolutely HATE Defog. Rock smash should go back to being the move I always used Shuckle for on the beaches of Olivine, and not an HM, as well. Nostalgia for the win

 

[Precious Tears]

I think There will be only 7 sets of HMs, 92 sets of TMs.
And instead of Defog I think it'll be replaced with Whirlpool,
while the move Flash will remain as TM70.

 

[Guy]

It is very obvious to assume that Rock Smash will remain a TM. The reason why I say this is because they cannot put it as a TM like it was before in Gold and Silver because in DPPt a Rock Smash TM was never formed, but instead it was placed as a HM like in RSE and FRLG. So, thinking Rock Smash may come as a TM probably won't happen, that I can tell.

Also, it is safe to assume that Flash won't be brought back as an HM either, because in DPPt it was placed as a TM. So, because of compatability and no doubt they shall allow trade with TMs being held, Flash shall more than likely remain as a TM for the remakes. However, this does leave two empty places for HMs that will need to take use once more. So, my though for this is, Defog will be kept as an HM for the remakes to replace the areas where the caves were placed as dark. Actually, even the dark caves before can be kept without fog, such as Dark Cave, so it can stay true to its name. However, other areas can be replaced with fog over darkness like before.

Then, there is Rock Climb, which I too doubt won't be brought in as an HM. So, with this being said it can easily be replaced with the original Whirlpool HM from Gold and Silver. This wouldn't cause much problem at all because of how HMs cannot be traded or held as an item. The only thing I see here is that there will be three water type HMs [Surf, Waterfall, and Whirlpool]. So, by thinking this, it makes me wonder whether or not Whirlpool will become an HM or not, because I'm sure Waterfall will be kept as an HM like it was since RSE.

My set up for this though for the HMs might be like this [not in order]

- Cut
- Surf
- Rock Smash
- Strength
- Defog
- Whirlpool/Waterfall
- Fly
- Whirlpool/Waterfall

Hmm, it seems as though I cannot think of anything else for the eight slot other than it being another water type HM. However, this could actually make a bit of sense seeing as they've added extra water areas within the game unlike before. So, we'll see.

 

[Ayselipera]

They might as well just add whirlpool in while keeping Flash a TM and leave Defog to DPPT. Seems to me as the best way to go considering Flash and Defog is a waste of a move anyways.

 

[Roaring Moon]

Here's what I would do:

• Keep the TM and HM lists the same as they are in D\P\Pt.
• The whirlpools would be removed and replaced with Rock Climb-able walls.
• The Elder in Sprout Tower would give you the Defog HM.
• When you defeat Team Rocket in Mahogany Town, Lance would give you the Rock Climb HM.
• The Zephyr Badge would allow you to use Defog outside of battle.
• The Mineral Badge would allow you to use Rock Smash outside of battle.
• The Glacier Badge would allow you to use Rock Climb outside of battle.
• The Flash TM can be purchasable in Goldenrod City.

 

[Guy]

Here's what I would do:

• Keep the TM and HM lists the same as they are in D\P\Pt.
• The whirlpools would be removed and replaced with Rock Climb-able walls.
• The Elder in Sprout Tower would give you the Defog HM.
• When you defeat Team Rocket in Mahogany Town, Lance would give you the Rock Climb HM.
• The Zephyr Badge would allow you to use Defog outside of battle.
• The Mineral Badge would allow you to use Rock Smash outside of battle.
• The Glacier Badge would allow you to use Rock Climb outside of battle.
• The Flash TM can be purchasable in Goldenrod City.

Your set up is nice, however removing the whirlpools only to be replaced by layers of rocks to be climbed wouldn't fit into the location at all. Lugia's area is found in the Whirl Islands, and because of this, removing the key feature that gives it its name wouldn't make any sense to the area at all.

If they keep HM Rock Climb within the game then fine, as I'm sure there can be places it can be used such as Mt. Silver and Tohjo Falls. Not to mention, the extended and mountainous areas in the Kanto region as well. However, they shouldn't remove the whirlpools around the islands because it is like removing a purpose for that location. Not to mention, when you think from another fan's perspective you would realize not only because of purpose but also because of nostalgia would they want it to be kept and not replaced.

 

[i love garchomp]

defog -> flash
rock smash->whirlpool