Florida preacher burns Koran, outrage in Middle East

Margot

some things are that simple
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    I cannot believe the stupidity of people sometimes :/ it's really sad that people had to lose their lives just because this guy wanted a little publicity. I mean I know we have the right to freedom of religion and opinions of religion, but ugh. It's just sad how far people take it sometimes.
     
    This is why I really dislike organized religion. I keep to myself with my Christian beliefs and don't go to church so I don't have to be a associated with this crap.

    I hate it that people can't just quietly disagree with another person's beliefs and respect the fact that they can believe what they want. Ugh... this is senseless blood spill and bigotry that could be avoided if ignorant people just let people be.
     
    I don't think it was appropriate in the slightest for the preacher to burn the Qu'ran, but this mass rioting and killing is completely inappropriate. If one uses common and fair logic, inciting religious hatred does not equal killing others, especially those who had nothing to do with it. It's like what happened with the Mohammed cartoons.
     
    The pastor exercised his freedom of speech. Sure, I disagree with it, but hey, people will do things to hurt your feelings and that's that. I've seen videos of flag burnings, and while I'm not happy about it, I don't go killing people over it.

    The rioters, on the other hand, acted completely inappropriately and there is absolutely no excuse for their actions. No one is to blame but the murderers themselves.

    It's like what happened with the Mohammed cartoons.

    And in both cases, extremist Muslims responded violently to speech that suggested Islam is a violent religion. Irony much?

    Disclaimer: I have a number of Muslim family members, so I am certainly not anti-Muslim. But my response to the pastor burning the Koran is the same as my response to an Imam burning the Bible, the holy book of my religion, would be: indifference. Even if I were offended, I would respond through argument, through intelligent debate. On the other hand, I am quite angry at the extremists who found it necessary to kill because they were offended. I hope the world shares that anger and trains it at the right source, not the pastor of a small church exercising his constitutional right to be offensive.
     
    I don't think it was appropriate in the slightest for the preacher to burn the Qu'ran, but this mass rioting and killing is completely inappropriate. If one uses common and fair logic, inciting religious hatred does not equal killing others, especially those who had nothing to do with it. It's like what happened with the Mohammed cartoons.

    A bit more of the fault than you give credit is on the pastor's shoulders. It may not be directly killing them, but when anyone with common sense knows something like this will happen if he does it, it's the next best thing.
     
    While I don't agree with his message, I support his right to burn the Koran. Why?

    "Congress shall make no law respecting an establishment of religion, or prohibiting the free exercise thereof; or abridging the freedom of speech, or of the press; or the right of the people peaceably to assemble, and to petition the Government for a redress of grievances."

    This is a free speech issue. Just like the Westboro case, distasteful speech still deserves protection in a free society.
     
    A bit more of the fault than you give credit is on the pastor's shoulders. It may not be directly killing them, but when anyone with common sense knows something like this will happen if he does it, it's the next best thing.

    I don't think that pastor counts under those.

    Egh, I don't know who's right here. The pastor's an idiot, but it's not like the outrage and following violence on the other side of the world did any good, either. The fella ought to go to Afghanistan and burn some Qu'rans, though. See how much publicity he gets there...
     
    It's just moronic that someone would do this! how stupid have you got to be not to know that by doing something like that a bunch of equally stupid Muslim people will do something just as bad if not worse. where in this case worse. However i do think that the Muslims were out of order killing people, yes it represented their religion but that was no excuse to kill innocent people >:(

    *also not saying all Muslims are stupid, just some of them can be just like there are dumb ass Catholics ¬.¬
     
    He's not taking his right to religious expression too far; he's just being downright ignorant. There's a major difference between religious expression and putting down another religion, and this man has committed the latter.

    Although I'm a Muslim, I don't really feel hatred towards this man so much as pity for his lack of reasoning and knowledge. He's most likely doing this as a publicity stunt, and his cheap stunt is costing lives. His true aim is to provoke Muslims, then label them as terrorists and violent people. By reacting violently to these people, Muslims are simply falling for the taunt. Incidents like this have happened many times in the past, especially towards Muslims. Usually, I don't fall for these taunts. I'd rather approach these people with a level head rather than barge in fuming.

    In the end, what this man did was ignorant and careless. Whatever he'll get he deserves. I would actually use this as an opportunity to teach non-Muslims about Islam and try to spread knowledge in the face of ignorance.

    This is why I really dislike organized religion. I keep to myself with my Christian beliefs and don't go to church so I don't have to be a associated with this crap.

    I hate it that people can't just quietly disagree with another person's beliefs and respect the fact that they can believe what they want. Ugh... this is senseless blood spill and bigotry that could be avoided if ignorant people just let people be.

    I do agree with you to some extent, but you have to understand where Muslims are coming from. Islam is not just a religion for many Muslims, but a way of life and a core belief. When someone attacks this core belief carelessly, many Muslims become offended and outraged. After all, their core belief, what they live their life by and what they are aiming for, has been attacked, and while their actions can't be accepted, understanding has to be shown.

    And in both cases, extremist Muslims responded violently to speech that suggested Islam is a violent religion. Irony much?
    I'll say this to you, and to others as well. Islam is not a violent religion, Muslims are. I'm a Muslim myself, as I've already mentioned, and I know for a fact that Islam preaches for peace and reconciliation. There is nothing in Islam that condones violence under this pretense. When Muslims riot under the pretense that people have attacked their religion, know that it isn't Islam that orders them to do so, but that they are simply following their emotions. I'll say it again: Islam is not a violent religion, Muslims are.
    Also, I understand that you're not trying to attack Muslims, but I'm trying to bring out a point to address any other misunderstandings that may appear later on.
     
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    Yes, this is the same man that claimed he would do that same thing on 9/11. (Previous Discussion) This time, no sweet-talk could stop him from burning the Koran. There is now massive outrage in the Middle East. 7 UN Workers are dead, one had his life spared after he recited lines from the Koran, even though he wasn't Muslim.



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    Well, I guess they proved that man's point then.

    I don't agree with what he did. No books, holy or not, should be burned.

    But, he didn't kill those UN Workers. Totally inappropriate and misguided reaction.

    I do agree with you to some extent, but you have to understand where Muslims are coming from. Islam is not just a religion for many Muslims, but a way of life and a core belief. When someone attacks this core belief carelessly, many Muslims become offended and outraged. After all, their core belief, what they live their life by and what they are aiming for, has been attacked, and while their actions can't be accepted, understanding has to be shown.
    No, I don't have to show understanding. People were killed. There's nothing to understand. Most people turn to a stress ball or something, not kill people.
     
    Although I'm a Muslim, I don't really feel hatred towards this man so much as pity for his lack of reasoning and knowledge. He's most likely doing this as a publicity stunt, and his cheap stunt is costing lives. His true aim is to provoke Muslims, then label them as terrorists and violent people. By reacting violently to these people, Muslims are simply falling for the taunt. Incidents like this have happened many times in the past, especially towards Muslims. Usually, I don't fall for these taunts. I'd rather approach these people with a level head rather than barge in fuming.

    I don't know much about Terry Jones myself. In the interviews I've seen with him, he's proven to be inarticulate and unsure of how to express himself properly, which does make me question his intelligence relative to other public figures. The media has given him a heavy dose of attention for his threat, and that may very well be what he wanted. But how can you know what his "true aim" is? He very clearly said his true aim was to put the Qur'an on trial, and all we can really do is take him at his word. He seems to have issues with the religion and he was expressing them. That's that. The barbaric response, whether anticipated or not, is so disproportionate to the act itself that Jones simply can't be held responsible in the least.

    Also, what about Bible burning? It's happened before and it will happen again, and the only way Christians ought to think to respond is with speech (since Bible burning is symbolic speech). Worse has been done to Christian symbols and buildings. When Black Metal bands sing about defiling Christ, or when the artists themselves actually burn churches, how many Christians respond by killing metalheads? I'm not talking just about the church burnings here, which is a criminal act, but the people who actively support it, actively submerge crosses in urine, actively desecrate other Christian symbols.

    Do these artists--whatever their motivations, whatever their message--deserve to be killed? Absolutely not. Society demands that we share our thoughts about our own religions as well as others, and sometimes sharing thoughts means being provocative. As a Christian, I believe Terry Jones was unChristlike and a terrible representation of what he claims to be his faith. As an American, I view this as just another exercise of freedom of speech. The book he burned was, I can assume, not stolen. He committed no act of vandalism. This is free speech.

    Whether other people responded violently or not is not his affair. We certainly can't know whether he deliberately provoked them, and this isn't even comparable to fighting words, a threat, etc. because he threatened no violence, nor did he tell anyone to commit violent acts.

    In the end, what this man did was ignorant and careless. Whatever he'll get he deserves. I would actually use this as an opportunity to teach non-Muslims about Islam and try to spread knowledge in the face of ignorance.

    He deserves nothing more than the full protection of the law that peaceful Muslims, Christians, Jews, and Atheists enjoy. As a Christian, I feel a special obligation to pray for him and if possible communicate with him so that he is persuaded not to do something like this again--not because it may cause violence, but because it reflects badly on Christianity and I am appalled at his acts. Whether that is actually successful is another matter.

    I do agree with you to some extent, but you have to understand where Muslims are coming from. Islam is not just a religion for many Muslims, but a way of life and a core belief. When someone attacks this core belief carelessly, many Muslims become offended and outraged. After all, their core belief, what they live their life by and what they are aiming for, has been attacked, and while their actions can't be accepted, understanding has to be shown.

    I take my religion just as seriously--seriously enough not to violate its core tenets like these extremists do. I believe that any Christian who would kill senselessly because his feelings were hurt is not a Christian. The same is true for Muslim extremists. Their actions should not reflect on the Muslim community as a whole, but on themselves.

    I'll say this to you, and to others as well. Islam is not a violent religion, Muslims are. I'm a Muslim myself, as I've already mentioned, and I know for a fact that Islam preaches for peace and reconciliation. There is nothing in Islam that condones violence under this pretense. When Muslims riot under the pretense that people have attacked their religion, know that it isn't Islam that orders them to do so, but that they are simply following their emotions.

    There should be no reason for you to have to say this. Unfortunately, people like to make generalizations so disclaimers like this are necessary. I have nothing against Islam, but the attacks perpetrated by Muslim extremists are inexcusable, just as attacks perpetrated by Christian extremists are. My only point is that I am not interested in spreading blame around--it falls squarely on the people who have committed violent acts.
     
    The pastor is just craving attention from the Muslim world. He should have taken into consideration about the possible consequences that is going to take place due to his heinous and shameful act. Of course, Muslims are going to react bluntly. The violent protest in Afghanistan isn't good either. The reason why Afghanis are killing people because they want to get rid of US presence there (drone attacks and Taliban wars) so if Priests were burning the Qurans publicly in the USA, then probably anyone who is associated with the US invasion is likely to be targeted for retaliation. That being said and well it's not the fault of religion because Islam itself is perfectly fine and doesn't promote killing of innocent people at all. It's the people who misuse religion as an excuse to wage wars which is totally wrong so in no way it's a violent religion. Talking about the pastor, he is no different than Osama Bin Laden.
     
    I do agree with you to some extent, but you have to understand where Muslims are coming from. Islam is not just a religion for many Muslims, but a way of life and a core belief. When someone attacks this core belief carelessly, many Muslims become offended and outraged. After all, their core belief, what they live their life by and what they are aiming for, has been attacked, and while their actions can't be accepted, understanding has to be shown.

    I'll say this to you, and to others as well. Islam is not a violent religion, Muslims are. I'm a Muslim myself, as I've already mentioned, and I know for a fact that Islam preaches for peace and reconciliation. There is nothing in Islam that condones violence under this pretense. When Muslims riot under the pretense that people have attacked their religion, know that it isn't Islam that orders them to do so, but that they are simply following their emotions. I'll say it again: Islam is not a violent religion, Muslims are.
    Also, I understand that you're not trying to attack Muslims, but I'm trying to bring out a point to address any other misunderstandings that may appear later on.

    Thank you for that. I agree completely.

    What the pastor did is hideous, that much is true. What was done to the UN workers is, however, far worse as they lost their lives on account of one man's bigotry and the rioters murderous intent.

    Let's also not allow radical Islamism to speak for the entirety of the Islamic faith.
     
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    I don't think it was appropriate in the slightest for the preacher to burn the Qu'ran, but this mass rioting and killing is completely inappropriate. If one uses common and fair logic, inciting religious hatred does not equal killing others, especially those who had nothing to do with it. It's like what happened with the Mohammed cartoons.

    Thank you! I was trying to explain this to my non-muslim grandmother last night but she just didn't want to stop talking about how the preacher has blood on his hands.

    So do the rioters. Normally I'd say that the preacher really hasn't done anything to directly hurt anyone (just offend), but he must have known this would flare people's emotions. Though at the same time, the reaction towards his actions is completely unjustified. As you say aruchan, burning a holy book does not equal killing poeple who had nothing to do with it.

    Not to mention revenge is forbidden in islam for good reason (as it just perpetuates a cycle of violence). These muslims involved in the violent reaction really need to have a good read of the Qur'an again or reconsider whether or not they really are following their religion sincerely, because what they're doing is a great sin in islam.
     
    Bigotry all around and innocent people die as a result. Just like people said would happen, burning a Koran incited people to violence. I mean, expression is an important freedom and even if the reaction to it is going to be extreme, violent and irrational you shouldn't have to censor yourself. But still, how can someone knowingly put other people in danger like that? This guy must be in his own little bubble of a world if he wouldn't listen to all the people saying how dangerous it would be to burn a Koran. How does a person get to that point?

    Bad as that was, no one condones the violence either. Killing UN workers - none of whom were even American - for something someone else did, however offensive, goes so far beyond unconscionable that I can't think of the right word for it. Ugh. This is what you get with radicals and fundamentalists. They can't see things outside their limited and simplistic views of the world.
     
    That guy's a jerk. The radicals who killed unrelated people because one guy was a jerk are infinitely worse, however.
     
    "Someone does something stupid that they knew would happen for months and they actually care"

    That's what the title of the thread should be.
     
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