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Game development: what's happening?

~Azura

Alright, purple is good.
    • 512
    Posts
    19
    Years
    • Seen Jun 21, 2012
    Lately I've been opening threads and reading something like this:

    "Features:
    Talk to npcs
    Enter houses
    See new people"

    Come on... since when "Talking" is enough for a game feature?. "See new people" isn't good for me either. A good game to be made takes time and effort, things that I haven't seen for quite sometime. What I've seen (and probably you too) are rushed games with equally rushed "custom" graphics.

    So I wonder, what's happening to game development?
     
    I kinda agree. When I saw that thread with those features I was kinda shocked. When I first joined the pokecommunity- and came into the fan game section, I was insprired by some games. Games like Liquid, Hidden Depths and even the old battle system project for RPG MAKER 2003 lol. Now, that I am alittle experienced, I hope my games give new comers the same feeling, but I'm sure it must make guests really put off by this section of the pokecommunity when they see half-a$$ed (tried to add a little censor there- not sure if those words are allowed lol) games.
    But my hope is, as time goes on, peoples' knownledge of the program they use (RM2k3/XP- Sphere- gamemaker- whatever) will grow, just like everyones did- making the games look/play more impressive.

    I guess it all comes down to how much the fan game developers are willing to put into their game. I find, generally, that if you see a thread just opened, and the game developer is looking for a team.....if he/she says they want Spriters, Mappers, Event coders, and so on, well then that game will most likely die, as the person who came up with the idea comes across as lazy.
     
    Last edited:
    It's a little thing called patience. And it is always, without fail, the newbies that have this problem. They're so excited that they're actually making a "game" that they just throw any old thing together and make a thread to showcase it all, which doesn't take very long to do. It's even worse when these people have only just started using a program too, so they have very little knowledge about it.

    When I started using RM2K way back when, (I actually started with RM95 but I was about 9-10 so that didn't really count) I had been messing around with it for a good year or two before I even began to think about making a Pokemon game. The first two games I made were crappy, clichéd, hour long games using the default resources. I suppose I was helped by the fact that I lost my internet connection shortly after downloading RM2K, so all I had was the program. Which meant I had to learn everything for myself, through the help files and actual trial and error.

    And the more experienced game makers actually wait until they have significant progress in the way of systems and not just maps before they showcase their games in a thread. Obvious recent examples would be you, Azura, Neo and Rm2k3kid. And, again, I've been working on a game in RMXP for a month or two now, on and off, and I've decided to hold back on making a thread until I at least have a working battle system, menu with at least partially functioning pokedex, bag and pokemon selection systems, as well as the story partially implemented.

    So, all in all, the newbies just need to slow down and curb their excitement until they've learned enough and made significant progress with their projects.

    While I'm ranting, there's another thing that bugs me. People who make games and then want scripters, coders etc to program for them while they write the story, make maps and stuff. Seriously, almost he entire game is made with scripts or coding (depending on the program/method you use) so if you can't do that, you can't make a game.
     
    Even though It's being thoroughly hypocritical, I agree.
     
    When I started game making I had just discovered Rm2k, in 2001~02. And only in 2007 I showcased a game for the first time (and it wasn't even started by me).

    Something that bugs me a lot too is all those "Studios" or "Productions" around. Most of the time it's nothing but a name, a ridiculous invisionfree forum and a logo. Of course there are some good names, like Phoenix Gamez and another few, but the rest is too much advertising for low level games.
     
    The reason why most of these games are showcased (and never work out) is because most of the time these people start directly by creating a POKéMON game once they acquire the program they are using (most of the time, the RPG Maker software) and they have no previous experience whatsoever.

    It has always, and will always be recommended that you create at least 4 games (it is usually recommended that you make 10) despite how crappy they will turn out you will still have learned something by working on these games prior to starting a project like a POKéMON so that you do not get overwhelmed.


    Another thing I'd like to point is the fact that most non-POKéMON games receive little to no attention at all, which throws some people off (myself included)
    Yes I know this is a POKéMON forum. That does not mean we have to endorse POKéMON games only.

    What is the reason of creating an original game (or a fangame of another series) if you do not get any response on it at all?
     
    Avatar said:
    Another thing I'd like to point is the fact that most non-POKéMON games receive little to no attention at all, which throws some people off (myself included)
    Yes I know this is a POKéMON forum. That does not mean we have to endorse POKéMON games only.

    What is the reason of creating an original game (or a fangame of another series) if you do not get any response on it at all?
    Click to expand...
    Yeah, I noticed this a long time ago. The majority of people just seem to have a fleeting glance at the screenshots and then leave. However, I'm not sure if those games get little attention here for being non-Pokémon games or because they just aren't very good. I mean, pretty much every non-Pokémon game showcased here has used default graphics and default systems. If a game was being showcased here with custom menu and battle systems, I think it'd get a bigger response.
     
    Yeah, I think the same way. I find, personally, when I go into a thread that is a non-pokemon game, the first thing I read is the storyline and I look at the screenshots. If the game is using the default menu and battle system, its kinda, like a turn off....
    That might sound weird but I'm sure I'm not the only one thinking like that.
    Using default systems shows no coding skill, as anyone can use the default systems.... And in my opinion, its not graphics that get you respect on these forums, it's your coding ability.
     
    Neo-Dragon said:
    Using default systems shows no coding skill, as anyone can use the default systems.... And in my opinion, its not graphics that get you respect on these forums, it's your coding ability.
    Click to expand...

    Neo-Dragon, I don't totally agree with you in there. People that can code do have respect, but I think custom Pokémons is what catches people's eyes the most. You see Acanthite, one of the best games around in my opinion. It has a big list of Pokémon concepts and drawings, but not systems (they're looking for coders). In the other hand, Metropolis has almost all the systems complete, and is not so popular among people.
     
    While it is a nice aspect that a game may have a custom system, you are wrong in the aspect that it is what defines the game.
    A game can have the most ingenious system, yet still manage to be a bad game.
    One of the most important things in a game is its actual and story and the gameplay that it sports.

    A similar scenario that is commonly used regarding commercial games: If the game has a poor story and gameplay, it will still suck regardless of its graphics.

    There is also a difference between using the default systems, and using them well.
     
    Avatar said:
    While it is a nice aspect that a game may have a custom system, you are wrong in the aspect that it is what defines the game.
    Click to expand...

    Was that a reply to my post or Neo-Dragon's?
     
    Hmmm, after reading those two other posts, its easy to see why some games are a hit and some are not..... It comes down to what people within the community like to play- and since everyone is different, reactions to game swill be different. Everyone who has posted in this thread has their own view on what makes a good game or rather, what will get you a good response to your game. What one person finds amazing, another may find as silly.

    But I do feel graphics attract people to a game. I loved the look of Pokemon: Next Generation (being developed by Krimm)- the graphics for that game were amazing. I found myself constantly checking the thread for updates..... But yet, most of it was artwork and not gameplay (i think- I coud be wrong)- but still - as I said- I was always checking the game thread- just to see more screenshot- well more of the graphics.....
    Also, if a game has really great looking screenshots, again, I find myself paying more attension to it.
    I remember an update for Pokémon Metropolis- it was showing the intro speech from the professor, the background graphics were so cool, I was staring at my screen for about 2 minutes lol.
    Custom pokemon go under graphics. And good looking custom pokemon attract people again.
    Hmmm, while typing this, I now think that graphics are what make a game really get attension.

    What do you guys think?
     
    Avatar said:
    While it is a nice aspect that a game may have a custom system, you are wrong in the aspect that it is what defines the game.
    (...)
    One of the most important things in a game is its actual and story and the gameplay that it sports.
    Click to expand...

    That becomes even more evident in Pokémon games, where the "custom" is nothing else than remade systems (in most of the cases, at least). People are playing with turn-based battles since Pokémon Red/Blue, what makes a nice storyline the only way to really define your game. That's also true for custom graphics.

    However, it is something to think about that PC doesn't have much scripters, making it hard to really know what makes the difference.
     
    Yeah, there is a lot of truth in what Azura was saying. Custom Pokémon and graphics are a big draw for a lot of members. There is a game on this board at the moment which emphasizes this point. It has nothing to show in the way of scripting, a couple of barely decent maps and three really well drawn custom Pokémon. Everybody seems to look passed the lack of actual progress and are just in awe of the new Pokémon. Another example is Pokémon Treasures.

    Likewise, custom graphics have the "wow" factor. Kyledove was always proof of this. Any game which used his tiles was greeted with nothing but positive feedback, despite most of them not having more than a few maps between them.

    Avatar, you're right too. Story and gameplay are the most important factors of a successful game. However, when we're dealing predominately with Pokémon games, stories can take a backseat. Pokémon games are all about the gameplay, specifically the battle system. So, with Pokémon games, good systems are a must. If a game doesn't showcase any systems, they aren't really worth playing. Especially when demos are released without any kind of systems. Which just end up being a walkaround a few interactions with NPCs. Not fun.

    For me, a good Pokémon game is made of the following, in order of most important:
    -well made systems.
    -well implemented story.
    -well produced maps.
    -side quests/minigames.
    -custom graphics.

    With other non-Pokémon games, swap the first two in the list around.

    Which is why I try to get a good mix of the above list when I'm making my game. I've spent ages working on the systems, trying to make them original too, I've made a couple of maps and have started implementing the introduction of the main story. I'm also planning out sidequests in Notepad, so I have a list of things I can start to program when I've worked out the bugs in the battle system and menu.

    And that's the thing that impresses me the most with Metropolis and Protectors. The first things both of you chose to showcase were the battle systems That's the way it should be, in my opinion.
     
    @Azura
    No matter how you look at it, we are in shortage of most things (with the exception of mappers and spriters. Although I wouldn't actually say that many of these people who proclaim to do one of these things are very good at it) where the most sought for are the scripters.

    @Dawson
    While you are right in the fact that the system is the most important factor in a POKéMON game, there is a problem with that as most people in this section tend to want the scripters to do everything for them. As you can see by looking at Blizzy's Starterkit.


    There really isn't much there can be done about either of these problem, as it is up to the individual person to learn how to script and the like for themselves.
    What might be able to help some of these people on the right path would be some proper documentation and tutorials, etc.

    What we also really need to get through to the majority of the Game Development section is that they should stop relying on others to do the work for them as it will get them nowhere.
     
    Last edited:
    Avatar said:
    While you are right in the fact that the system is the most important factor in a POKéMON game, there is a problem with that as most people in this section tend to want the scripters to do everything for them. As you can see by looking at Blizzy's Starterkit.
    Click to expand...

    There's another problem too, mostly when people require a specific system for Pokémon, like a CBS, CMS, etc. Pokémon systems are to be made altogether. One can't work without another, and so on. That "linking" is what makes the systems so hard to complete, but so rewarding to see completed.
     
    I think Dawson pointed out something that everyone should do when making a game.

    Open notepad/wordpad and write out details on your game.
    Example:
    Your goals
    Your features (like how you coded something)
    and even, write out your opening post for your thread here on the forums.
    Here is a "copy/paste" from my word file "Protectors dev sheet":
    Battle Pics
    Pic1 :Battle background
    Pic2: Enemy Pokemon X=220 Y=108
    Pic3: Hero pokemon X = 108 Y=125
    Pic 4: Enemy HP
    Pic 5: Hero HP
    Pic6: Pokeball status
    Pic 7:Enemy status
    Pic 8: Hero Status
    Pic 9: Messageboxbackground
    Pic 10: Fight command
    Pic 11/12: Hero Level
    Pic 13/14: Enemy Level
    Pic 15: Hero EXP

    That was me listing out how I was doing the battle system in terms of pics.
    Lets say, I was getting sick of working on the battle system, If I went and worked on my mapping for awhile when I would come back to working on the battle system, I wouldn't be lost or forget where I was as I wrote down what needed to be done - eg. "Code EXP bar" - and I would see that the EXP bar should be displayed by picture 15.

    Again, I'll stress it to anyone reading this.... It is vital to have a word document like this. Take time to plan your game.

    With my game, I started work on Protectors back in November, but didn't showcase it until January 30th. As Dawson again pointed out, I waited until I had something which is vital to a pokemon game- which is the battle system.

    Avatar, said it. We need tutorials for people. So i'll write one for use with RPG Maker 2003. Even if I explain how to do a custom menu, I'm sure members would find it helpful.
     
    I suppose I could speed up my RMXP/Basic Scripting tutorial too...
     
    Avatar said:
    The reason why most of these games are showcased (and never work out) is because most of the time these people start directly by creating a POKéMON game once they acquire the program they are using (most of the time, the RPG Maker software) and they have no previous experience whatsoever.

    It has always, and will always be recommended that you create at least 4 games (it is usually recommended that you make 10) despite how crappy they will turn out you will still have learned something by working on these games prior to starting a project like a POKéMON so that you do not get overwhelmed.


    Another thing I'd like to point is the fact that most non-POKéMON games receive little to no attention at all, which throws some people off (myself included)
    Yes I know this is a POKéMON forum. That does not mean we have to endorse POKéMON games only.

    What is the reason of creating an original game (or a fangame of another series) if you do not get any response on it at all?
    Click to expand...

    Ya Avatar I know what you mean. take a look at The Plot and Story space. It's full of pkmn games that will never be finished cuz ppl think they gotta do pkmn here.
     
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