2nd Gen Gym Leaders: Original or Remake?

[BettyNewbie]

The sequel has arrived! Just like in the other thread, state which design you like best for each Kanto/Johto Gym Leader (sans Blue, who was already covered in the previous thread) and explain why.

I'll start off...

1. Brock: HGSS design.

I've never been a huge fan of any of his designs, but I like how he looks younger and friendlier in his most recent one. His earlier looks made him look way too serious when he was probably one of the hardest Gym Leaders to even take seriously (especially when his more popular anime counterpart is taken into account). Dude, your Onix just lost to my Butterfree! :rolleyes2:

2. Misty: HGSS design.

As iconic as the side pigtail is, when it comes to game Misty, I prefer the more mature look from the Gen 2/4 games. She became a stronger and wiser trainer within the passing three years, and her new look perfectly reflected that. Plus, I've never been a fan of the skimpy bikini she had in Gen 1/3 (her iconic anime look was better, IMO).

3. Lt. Surge: HGSS design.

Never had strong opinions about him, so I'll just go with the newest one. Always liked the sunglasses on him.

4. Erika: All of her designs.

Her basic look changed very little over the years, and I don't have strong enough opinions about any of them to pick just one. Personally, I prefer her cute minidress from the anime over any of her game designs.

5. Koga: All of his designs.

His outfit has barely changed over the past 20 years, so I can't really pick just one. I have a slight preference to the (slightly) younger-looking version from Gen 1, but it's not a strong one.

6. Janine: Can't choose.

If you compare the two artworks, you notice one big thing--Her outfit hasn't changed at all! Sure, the shading and coloring's different on the original art, but otherwise, it's the exact same outfit. I prefer her appearance and pose in the earlier art, myself, but that's about all I can say.

7. Sabrina: RBY design.

The little "makeover" she received in HGSS offends me. Here, was this strong, mysterious, and badass woman being reduced to cheap fanservice (because, apparently, the games didn't have enough of that :rolleyes2:). They even girlified her personality and gave her this acting "aspiration" out of nowhere. Yuck! I miss her whip.

8. Blaine: RBY design.

Who thought it was a good idea to turn him into a glorified Gentleman? He's supposed to be this crazy, hot-headed quiz-master scientist! Blaine is not Blaine without his lab coat.

9. Giovanni: RBY design.

Just not feeling the fedora on him, sorry. His original look was much more intimidating, as the mysterious boss of Team Rocket should be.

10. Falkner: GSC design.

The newer look is a bit too bright and fussy for my tastes (What's with the dots on his shirt?), and I prefer the darker, straighter hair of his earlier look. He's still cute in both outfits, though.

11. Bugsy: GSC design.

Both designs are okay, but I lean towards the older one because of the lack of that silly yellow tie. He's a Bug Catcher, not a Camper.

12. Whitney: GSC design.

Again, the newer one's just a little too fussy for my tastes, although it's still not a bad look for her.

13. Morty: HGSS design.

As nostalgic as his original look was, he looked more like a stoned surfer than a mysterious Ghost specialist. Thankfully, HGSS rectified this--I dig the purple scarf, and he's so much prettier without the mullet. I love how his newer outfit, ironically, resembles his GSC sprite more than his GSC outfit did.

14. Chuck: GSC design.

Not a huge fan of him, either way, but I prefer the simpler, "overweight Blackbelt" look of his earlier design. Plus, his newer look somewhat whitewashed him... Which I'll get into later when I cover a certain other Fighting specialist.

15. Jasmine: GSC design.

Her newer dress has too many frills, and that big red bow's just distracting. Plus, her eyes are supposed to be blue/green, not brown.

16. Pryce: HGSS design.

Like Morty, his original design made him look more like he belonged on a beach instead of his specialized type. And, also like Morty, HGSS fixed this by dressing him in warmer clothes in better colors and a fab scarf. Very stylish grandpa, there.

17. Clair: GSC design.

Yet, another badass woman who received a horrible redesign. Who thought it was a good idea to dress her head-to-toe in bright, eye-gouging teal? And, those ugly thigh-highs were clearly done for no purpose other than cheap fanservice, because Mew forbid a female character wear practical shoes. (I LOVE how Silver actually makes fun of her outfit in HGSS, as if even GF realized that they made her look hideous.) She also seems to have been unnecessarily aged down, especially in contrast to her cousin (who I'll get to later.)
​

 

[Imperator161]

Let's see...

1. Brock: No strong preference. I guess I like his anime designs better than his in-game designs, and because I watched the anime for quite a few years, I have a hard time picturing him in anything other than his anime outfits (especially the one from the original series). Looking at his old artwork, I didn't even know the white t-shirt and blue cargo pants look was part of his character art (which it is, according to Bulbapedia), and I'm not that into that look, so I guess I like the newer art better on net.

2. Misty: RBY art, though it's a close call. I like the HGSS art a lot, but as with Brock, I associate Misty too strongly with my memories of watching the anime; thus, I'm opting for the art with the haircut that looks like the anime haircut. (I probably like the swimsuit in HGSS better, but on net, the RBY art speaks to me more.) Overall, I really like the HGSS art, but it looks like it should belong to another character to me, not Misty; it just seems too different from the original.

3. Lt. Surge: HGSS art. I like the sunglasses, and he looks too angry in RBY.

4. Erika: The HGSS art looks slightly more elegant to me, so I guess I like that best. No strong opinion here, though.

5. Koga: Maybe RBY art? He looks pretty similar in both, but like the previous poster, I guess I like the younger look slightly better.

6. Janine: No opinion, they're really similar. The older version (GSC) looks like it has a bit more blue, while HGSS is a little more purple, and I like blue better than purple, so I guess I'll go with GSC.

7. Sabrina: RBY. She seems more serious in RBY than in her newer rendition, and I think that suits her character well. The whip is a unique touch, though I've never quite been sure why she has it, and it doesn't reappear in later artwork.

8. Blaine: RBY. I like the sophisticated HGSS look, but he's supposed to be a scientist, and the original art does a good job of reflecting that. His RBY sprites do make his head look a bit like a stereotypical alien, though.

9. Giovanni: RBY. He seems sinister and mysterious, which I've always liked. He's frequently shrouded in mystery, and unlike later games, R/B did a good job of trying to keep him a surprise till the end.

10. Falkner: GSC art. His new art seems a little over the top. Maybe it's the polkadots.

12. Bugsy: GSC art. Not sure why, but it's a gut reaction. Maybe it does have to do with the yellow tie in the HGSS art (as mentioned in the previous post).

13. Whitney: HGSS. I like the blue shorts better than the original white ones.

14. Morty. GSC. I always really liked his GSC design, and I feel like they tried to make him too trendy (with the scarf and all) in HGSS. I also like the blue color scheme used in GSC, as blue is my favorite color. This is one of the more dramatic redesigns, in my opinion, and therefore one I feel fairly strongly about out of the Johto gym leaders. I do like his newer haircut a little better than the old one, though.

15. Chuck: Maybe GSC? Again, no strong opinion.

16. Jasmine: GSC. I like the slightly simpler dress in the original artwork. (Overall, I think I tend somewhat more towards simpler outfits, though it's obviously a case-by-case basis.)

17. Pryce: HGSS. I like the blue jacket, and he doesn't look like he's going to freeze like he does in his GSC sprite.

18. Clair: GSC. The darker colors seem a little more fitting for a dragon master and the final Johto gym leader.

 

[BettyNewbie]

Overall, I think I tend somewhat more towards simpler outfits, though it's obviously a case-by-case basis.

I generally prefer the simpler outfits, myself. I think as with the Pokémon, character designs became more complex as the handhelds became better and capable of rendering more detail and color. (Which is why the older outfits are usually the simpler ones.)

 

[Bellsprout]

Brock: his designs are all very bland, but I think that suits him. I really have no preference here.

Misty: I always found all her looks to be underwhelming, with her newest look being my least favorite. Dat swimsuit ain't flattering girl!! My favorite from her would have to be her gen II look as her pose is cute, her hair looks good, and her outfit is the right color for her imo.

Lt. Surge: There's really not much to say about him as his look remains pretty consistent throughout the generations. Newest one seems to be the cleanest and most detailed so by default I have to go with it.

Erika: I love Erika!! So I'm kinda biased as I love almost all her looks. Gen II is my fav look from her. Green suits her and her hair has a slightly different angle to it that looks mature.

Koga: Stay consistent, no real preference.
Janine: She's cute in her designs. I like both.

Sabrina: I always felt like her long hair and just bad ass ways were so iconic, I don't get why they would ruin that by giving her a mom cut and a lame wardrobe? For me she never really looked that good in any of the games when compared to the anime, official artwork, or artwork from the tcg.

Blaine: Gen II is pretty much how I imagine Blaine

Giovanni: Another character who I feel like never looks that good in the games when compared to other artwork.

Falkner: Another consistent one. I did enjoy the more vibrant original hair.

Bugsy: Ahaha I thought he was a girl for the LONGEST time. Really no preference in either look. Very boring looks imo.

Whitney: Very similar looks, really no preference.

Morty: Love his updated look. His original look was very underwhelming for me... not gym leader material at all. Looked like a 90s bum to me lol

Chuck: Not much to say here. Though I think I prefer the original.

Jasmine: Love her and love her original design. So cute and simple.

Pryce: I prefer his updated look. The old one was a little too "miserable old man" for my taste.

Clair: I like both designs. Kinda wish they kept her hair darker, but the style is def better.

 

[OmegaRuby and AlphaSapphire]

I like better the HGSS for most of them. I do like better Blue's Gen I, II, and Gen III outfits compared to his Gen IV outfit. I like best Giovanni's Gen I/III outfit compared to Gen IV too.

 

[BettyNewbie]

Brock: his designs are all very bland, but I think that suits him. I really have no preference here.

Misty: I always found all her looks to be underwhelming, with her newest look being my least favorite. Dat swimsuit ain't flattering girl!! My favorite from her would have to be her gen II look as her pose is cute, her hair looks good, and her outfit is the right color for her imo.

Lt. Surge: There's really not much to say about him as his look remains pretty consistent throughout the generations. Newest one seems to be the cleanest and most detailed so by default I have to go with it.

Erika: I love Erika!! So I'm kinda biased as I love almost all her looks. Gen II is my fav look from her. Green suits her and her hair has a slightly different angle to it that looks mature.

Koga: Stay consistent, no real preference.
Janine: She's cute in her designs. I like both.

Sabrina: I always felt like her long hair and just bad ass ways were so iconic, I don't get why they would ruin that by giving her a mom cut and a lame wardrobe? For me she never really looked that good in any of the games when compared to the anime, official artwork, or artwork from the tcg.

Blaine: Gen II is pretty much how I imagine Blaine

Giovanni: Another character who I feel like never looks that good in the games when compared to other artwork.

Falkner: Another consistent one. I did enjoy the more vibrant original hair.

Bugsy: Ahaha I thought he was a girl for the LONGEST time. Really no preference in either look. Very boring looks imo.

Whitney: Very similar looks, really no preference.

Morty: Love his updated look. His original look was very underwhelming for me... not gym leader material at all. Looked like a 90s bum to me lol

Chuck: Not much to say here. Though I think I prefer the original.

Jasmine: Love her and love her original design. So cute and simple.

Pryce: I prefer his updated look. The old one was a little too "miserable old man" for my taste.

Clair: I like both designs. Kinda wish they kept her hair darker, but the style is def better.

I'm guessing you're basing some of these on the sprites, as neither Misty or Blaine had official art in Gen 2. (Odd how you like Misty's Gen 2 look, but not her Gen 4 one, as they're pretty similar as far as I can tell.)

I like better the HGSS for most of them. I do like better Blue's Gen I, II, and Gen III outfits compared to his Gen IV outfit. I like best Giovanni's Gen I/III outfit compared to Gen IV too.

While I prefer his original look the best, I actually prefer Blue's HGSS look to his FRLG one. I hate that fanny pack with a passion (especially since he seems like the last person who would wear one), and even just the way his FRLG art was drawn didn't look much like him at all. His HGSS art, on the other hand, depicted him in almost the same iconic pose as his Yellow/GSC sprite and in an outfit that was similar to the one he had in his Champion sprite from RB. Much more recognizable as Blue, IMO.

 

[Cerberus87]

I prefer most of the redesigns, but then I'm biased towards the new art.

I think Sabrina's new design is more IN character for her. She never felt like a stern girl in her appearances. Her anime characterization is nothing like her game self and gave her a bad name. In the games she acts cool and gentle.

I also don't agree that she's THAT sexualized in HGSS. Attractive yes, but sexualized? Now all girls in casual clothes are sexualized? Elesa and Skyla are far more "sexualized" than Sabrina's HGSS self.

I have a feeling that all the Kanto gym leaders in HGSS were changed to look more laid back, not just Sabrina.

 

[BettyNewbie]

I think Sabrina's new design is more IN character for her. She never felt like a stern girl in her appearances. Her anime characterization is nothing like her game self and gave her a bad name. In the games she acts cool and gentle.

What was wrong with her anime characterization? I thought anime Sabrina had a very interesting, intriguing backstory, and it didn't clash that much with her game persona... At least, before HGSS turned her into this "bimbo" (for lack of a better word) with a showbusiness aspiration that came out of nowhere.

I also don't agree that she's THAT sexualized in HGSS. Attractive yes, but sexualized? Now all girls in casual clothes are sexualized? Elesa and Skyla are far more "sexualized" than Sabrina's HGSS self.

Look at how low her pants are. And, she's got some cleavage going on, too. If they wanted to make her look more casual, fine, but it could've been done without sticking her in a skimpy tank top and pants that barely cover her ass. There's just no other reason for that besides cheap fanservice, because someone, somewhere thought that not enough female characters in HGSS were showing skin. :rolleyes2:

 

[Cerberus87]

What was wrong with her anime characterization? I thought anime Sabrina had a very interesting, intriguing backstory, and it didn't clash that much with her game persona... At least, before HGSS turned her into this "bimbo" (for lack of a better word) with a showbusiness aspiration that came out of nowhere.

From RBY:

"I had a vision of your arrival! I have had psychic powers since I was a little child. I first learned to bend spoons with my mind. I dislike fighting, but if you wish, I will show you my powers!"

Does this really sound like the power-obsessed Sabrina from the anime? Really, the only thing similar between them is the clothes they use. I'll admit her anime self was an interesting character, but it's no more accurate than her PokéSpe portrayal. The anime even makes a point that the Sabrina Ash and friends first meet isn't the "real" one personality-wise.

The Pokéstar Studios thing isn't relevant to HGSS.

Look at how low her pants are. And, she's got some cleavage going on, too. If they wanted to make her look more casual, fine, but it could've been done without sticking her in a skimpy tank top and pants that barely cover her ass. There's just no other reason for that besides cheap fanservice, because someone, somewhere thought that not enough female characters in HGSS were showing skin. :rolleyes2:

She doesn't have much of a cleavage despite having moderately sized breasts, which is something she had in her old art, too.

If they really wanted to redesign her as fanservice, they would've added a bigger cleavage and pubic lines to her. They'd never do that, though, because Nintendo wouldn't let them.

 

[BettyNewbie]

Does this really sound like the power-obsessed Sabrina from the anime? Really, the only thing similar between them is the clothes they use. I'll admit her anime self was an interesting character, but it's no more accurate than her PokéSpe portrayal. The anime even makes a point that the Sabrina Ash and friends first meet isn't the "real" one personality-wise.

To be honest, it's hard to tell. She had very little characterization in RBY, to begin with, and what few lines she had came off as very generic. I think what the anime did was take those few lines about her having had Psychic powers since she was a kid and fleshed them out into something much deeper. (A future Gen 1 remake would be wise to take cues from the anime portrayal.)

If it means anything, a lot of official art back then (especially in the TCG) depicted her in a way that was more consistent with her anime portrayal. That's what Sabrina's supposed to be, not some bimbo in skimpy clothing.

She doesn't have much of a cleavage despite having moderately sized breasts, which is something she had in her old art, too.

Her breasts definitely seem smaller in the RBY art, at least. She seems a little curvier in the FRLG art, but even then, she's still covered up.

If they really wanted to redesign her as fanservice, they would've added a bigger cleavage and pubic lines to her. They'd never do that, though, because Nintendo wouldn't let them.

A female character doesn't need that much to be fanservice, trust me. Stuffing her into a tiny tank top and pants that barely cover her ass, while exposing her entire midriff is more than enough. Especially, when there aren't any male characters who are similarly exposed (at least, not until Gen 6).

 

[curiousnathan]

Brock - New
Misty - Old
Lt Surge - New
Erika - New
Sabrina - Old
Koga/Janine - New
Giovanni - New
Blaine - New

Fawkner - New
Bugsy - New
Whitney - New
Morty - New
Jasmine - New
Pryce - New
Clair - New