Hazards & Subseeding - Pt Stall [OU RMT]

[Archer]

So I haven't bothered making a Stall Team since early in the year, so I decided to give it another shot. So here goes...
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Basically, the idea of the Team is to set up all of the entry hazards and then wall threats as they give me trouble. At the end, Skymin is there to SubSeed the hell out of everything. Here goes...
Team Line-up

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TO BE REPLACED BY MESPRIT

Infernape (M) @ Choice Scarf
Ability: Blaze
EVs: 24 Atk/252 Spd/232 SAtk
Naive nature (+Spd, -SDef)

Stealth Rock - I want to get Stealth Rock out fast, and this is faster than Aerodactyl, so I'm using it to make sure I get the rocks down. This is probably not the most effective way at getting Stealth Rock onto the field, although I don't want to be Taunted into oblivion.
Close Combat - Bread and Butter move. It's here so I can revenge Pokemon with Infernape. It also hits DDTar after a DD or two. This can be rather dangerous, with STAB and a high speed, although most fighting-weak pokemon are slow.
Fire Blast - This takes out the odd Bronzong Lead and just provides good coverage in general. Flamethrower is an option, although without Life Orb/Nasty Plot, it's a bit underpowered. I'm considering Overheat.
Hidden Power [Ice] - I am having second thoughts here. I put it down for revenging Dragons, Skymin, etcetera. It looks good on paper, but it doesn't get much use. I can't really see another Hidden Power being useful here, so I'm open to suggestions.
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Team Role - This provides me with SR support from the beginning. It also gives me a revenge killer, should something go wrong. I am really considering running Aerodactyl, in it's place.

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Skarmory (M) @ Shed Shell
Ability: Keen Eye
EVs: 252 HP/252 Def/6 Spd
Impish nature (+Def, -SAtk)

Brave Bird - Regardless of Skarmory's mediocre attack, this still hits hard. It also OHKOs Heracross, should one switch in. (Skarm can't switch in on it.)
Whirlwind - Phazing on a stall team is a neccesity. This stops most Physical Sweepers setting up on me. Once I get all entry hazards down, I can user this to shuffle around the opponents team, taking 37.5% HP.
Roost - Any good wall needs it's beauty-sleep, just look how pretty Skarmory is...[/facepalm] Stalls off slower Electric attacks, etc. It can also stall out those pokemon that pick up Toxic Spikes.
Spikes - It wouldn't be a stallteam without Spikes. Skarmory is bulky enough to survive for the three turns it takes to set up Spikes. Taking 25% off everything that switches in is damn nice.
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Team Role - Skarmory provides me with a good Physical wall, as well as a Source of Spikes. Phazing is also useful.

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Snorlax (M) @ Leftovers
Ability: Thick Fat
EVs: 252 HP/252 SDef
Careful nature (+SDef, -SAtk)

Body Slam - Gutsy, STAB and a decent chance of Paralysis. (Given Lax's Survivability) It hurts anything that doesn't resist it. After Parahax, anything with less than 378 Spd is outsped by Snorlax, which makes Snorlax an offensive threat.
Crunch - Mainly for hitting Ghosts/Darks. It still leaves me hurting against Steels, but Heatran is the only one that Snorlax should be dealing with, so it can just Paralyse it. For extended use, the 10% 1 stage Def dropcan kick in, although I had minimal luck from that degree on my last Stall team.
Rest - Lax is very difficult to take down with Special Attacks. Give it recovery and 5 turns of attacking just went to waste. It's also great for absorbing Status and activating Sleep Clause.
Sleep Talk - This keeps it moving while it's asleep. Otherwise it can become setup-fodder, but the threat of paralysis prevents this.
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Team Role: Snorlax is a reliable Special wall, handling threats from Gengar to Skymin relatively well. It also makes a useful status absorber, being a reliable switch into common T-Wavers, etc.

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Rotom-H @ Leftovers
Ability: Levitate
EVs: 252 HP/252 Def
Bold nature (+Def, -Atk)

Discharge - Discharge can be used to Revenge kill various pokemon, such Gyarados. Although Thunderbolt is 15BP more powerful, it doesn't have the same 30% Paralysis chance.
Shadow Ball - Another reliable STAB. This can be used to hit Starmie, as Rotom is my Anti-Spin, although it's more of a filler-STAB.
Overheat - The Signature move of Heat Rotom is here to mostly counter Scizor, although it can deal with Lucario, Heracross and Skymin (to a degree). You often have to scout with Reflect or another move, because the SAtk drop is undesired, plus Heatran will often switch in.
Reflect - Not a common move on Rotom at the beginning of Pt, it's gained a spot on the main standard set. It's here for team support and to deal with Physical threats/Pursuit better. I am seriously considering running Will-o-wisp here, instead. It helps for the whole "stall" idea.
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Team Role: Rotom is answer to various threats, especially Scizor and Gyarados. It also allows for both Reflect Support and an Anti-Spin.

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Tentacruel (M) @ Leftovers
Ability: Liquid Ooze
EVs: 252 HP/32 Spd/48 SAtk/176 SDef
Calm nature (+SDef, -Atk)

Surf - The main STAB attack. It's here for hitting Heatran, to which Tentacruel makes a rather nice counter. It can also deal with Infernape, so that helps me out. It also just helps as a generally reliable STAB.
Ice Beam - Ice Beam can be really handy when countering threats such as MixMence and... No that's all I can think of. Regardless it seems far more useful than HP Electric, hitting a more suited range of pokemon for Tentacruel to be challenging.
Toxic Spikes - A major core of my team, Toxic Spikes are probably the most effective way at stalling. Even if I only get one layer down, they really pose problems for pokemon with Life Orb (losing 37% on entry and 22.5% every turn.)
Knock Off - I decided to go with Knock Off over Rapid Spin. Why? I have 1 SR weakness(Skymin), which should only be switching in once. The only Hazard that bothers me is Toxic Spikes, which Tenta absorbs on entry.
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Team Role: Tentacruel is one of those pokemon. Sometimes it seems to be useless, other times, it makes the difference between a win and loss. It provides me with a MixApe and MixMence counter as well as both absorbing and laying out Toxic Spikes.

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TO BE REPLACED BY MACHAMP

Swampert (M) @ Leftovers
Ability: Torrent
EVs: 124 HP / 40 Def / 128 SAtk / 216 SDef
Sassy nature (+SDef, -Spd)
Earthquake - STAB. Earthquake is here to OHKO Tyranitar, who otherwise proves a massive threat to my team. With the SDef EVs, it makes a half-decent switch-in to Heatran, OHKOing (threefold) with EQ.
Ice Beam - This is here to deal with Salamence. Hopefully it can take a chunk from any Skymins/Celebis that feel safe switching in.
Rest - Swampert may be bulky, but it doesn't have godly defenses. Rest keeps it alive, which is handy.
Sleep Talk - Having a status absorber that can take a Physical hit means that I can deal with more threats and it keeps me dishing out damage while sleeping.

Team Role: Swampert is just such a reliable pokemon. Great typing combined with well-placed stats mean it sticks around for a while, dealing with Tyranitar and Salamence, especially. It also gives me another option for Status Absorbtion, although I'd probably be better dishing Status out...
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Ok, that's it, go wild, guys. Suggest changes, give advice, whatever...
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[Aquilae]

I'd be concerned about the glaring Tyranitar weakness, especially the Choice Band and Boah variants, and the Dragon Dance set also can bypass your defenses. CBTar outspeeds Skarmory if it runs around 90 EVs with a neutral nature, netting it the 2HKO on Skarm, while the rest of your team sans Infernape and Skymin can't really do damage to it, giving it free opportunities to setup. Without a boosting item Skymin fails to OHKO Tyranitar with Seed Flare. Boah is destructive behind a Sub, taking care of Skarm with Fire Blast, Tentacruel with Crunch / Earthquake / Stone Edge. DDtar with Fire Blast often run Speed EVs and a neutral SpA nature, giving them the chance to 2HKO Skarm on the switchin and subsequently sweep, only being stopped by Infernape.

Next I would be concerned about Salamence, it is safe to say that a Salamence can potentially sweep your whole team if you guess wrongly and send an unsuitable counter, YacheMence can also setup without fear and outspeed your main revenge-killer, Infernape.

I suggest you remove Skymin, SubSeeding is quite overrated especially with SR / Sandstorm chipping away at Skymin's health, I don't think it does its role well. I think a RestTalk Swampert could go in its place, Rest / Sleep Talk / Ice Beam / Earthquake, Sassy with 40 Def / 216 SpD. You may also want to invest the required EVs to OHKO Salamence with Ice Beam without SR down.

I feel Mamoswine should be used over Infernape if only for Ice Shard, revenge-killing YacheMence, Skymin and others, providing a more reliable check than Infernape. In addition, Earthquake cleans house and MixSwine, the variant I recommend, has a counter in Bronzong which can be made setup fodder for Skarm.

 

[The Hero Without a Name]

I'm still a little leery of using Snorlax as a special wall, though. Even with max HP/SPDEF, he's still 2HKO'd by Specsluke's AURA SPHERE. Not to mention, Specs Alakazam also lands a 2HKO with Focus Blast (even if it's inaccurate, but hey, you can say the same thing to the SpecsLukes running Focus Blast for Blissey). And you'd better hope Skymin doesn't drop your SPDEF with Seed Flare, or else Snorlax too will fall in two hits. Nasty Plot Togekiss also has a high chance to land a 2HKO with Aura Sphere.

I mean, the mere fact that special attackers are this powerful in DP really takes away from Snorlax's walling capabilities.

 

[Anti]

Why do people always use that obnoxious center alignment to make their RMTs unreadable >_>

For some reason I don't feel like this is a stall team. It feels like you're putting up a rather "eh" attempt at walling stuff and if not, just try to revenge kill with Infernape. I don't see the stall element at all (and no Rapid Spin is honestly a little silly given offensive teams' total reliance on it to get kills).

You have a crazy Tyranitar weakness for one thing. Yeah you can "revenge kill" it, but that's the wrong mentality to take with a stall team...totally. Gyarados is also a problem once Rotom gets weakened (which is inevitable), and the same with SDluke, which will likely get a chance to crush you late game. DDmence is in the same boat. I sure wouldn't replace Infernape with Aerodactyl...stall doesn't need it at all. Going 5 vs. 6 the rest of the match will get you killed.

I would get rid of Skymin to put in Mesprit. It's a pretty decent Salamence check and a great Gyarados counter. It also sets up SR and can spread Toxic or paralysis or whatever you want around (or it can U-Turn to avoid Tyranitar lol). This team needs some Wish support asap too, I mean Leech Seed isn't going to cut it for healing. Also use Shed Shell over Leftovers on Skarmory. Magnezone showing up will seal your fate otherwise.

I don't know, something just seems kinda wrong here. I don't know if I can pinpoint but yeah.

I'm still a little leery of using Snorlax as a special wall, though. Even with max HP/SPDEF, he's still 2HKO'd by Specsluke's AURA SPHERE. Not to mention, Specs Alakazam also lands a 2HKO with Focus Blast (even if it's inaccurate, but hey, you can say the same thing to the SpecsLukes running Focus Blast for Blissey). And you'd better hope Skymin doesn't drop your SPDEF with Seed Flare, or else Snorlax too will fall in two hits. Nasty Plot Togekiss also has a high chance to land a 2HKO with Aura Sphere.

I mean, the mere fact that special attackers are this powerful in DP really takes away from Snorlax's walling capabilities.

Well NP Togekiss is no real problem with Rotom here, and that can beat Blissey too so...

Snorlax gets beat by some things, but really, Specsluke is virtually never used and is walled by Rotom/Snorlax combined (it has to predict right). And I mean come on, nobody uses Alakazam, and as usual, fighting attacks can be absorbed by the team's ghost. I've used Snorlax for ages and it's anything but unreliable. It has trouble with some stuff, but Blissey isn't much better with 101 substitute ANYTHING. Snorlax is actually REALLY good.

 

[Archer]

I'll get the quicker things out of the way. Fabian, SpecsLuke could 2HKO Bold Bliss with Aura Sphere. I realise I have a problem with Physical variants, but Tentacruel makes a great SpecsLuke counter. Besides, Focus Blast has a 49% chance of hitting twice.

Aside from being a Physical Wall, Skarmory deals with Skymin rather well.
Seed Bomb is a 4-5HKO and Air Slash is a 4HKO(With Life Orb). Brave Bird OHKOs Skymin.

Aquilae, I expected nothing less, thanks.

So the Swampert I'm looking at should be running:

Swampert (M) @ Leftovers
Ability: Torrent
EVs: 124 HP / 40 Def / 128 SAtk / 216 SDef
Sassy nature (+SDef, -Spd)
- Earthquake
- Ice Beam
- Rest
- Sleep Talk

I'm fine with that.

As for Mamoswine, I'm actually leaning towards the Support variant, meaning I can get out SR, even if it's a few turns into the game. Opinion? Although I'm still not that keen on Mamoswine.

Anti, I tend to find that Mesprit does nothing. It's not that bulky, It isn't that I don't think it'll work, but I've always found it to take hits badly. If it had Wish (which it should) it would be a staple on here, but.... Besides, I can't really see a spot for decent Wish support. The only Bulky Wishers in OU are Jirachi, Vappy and Togekiss. Togekiss doesn't help any of the weaknesses, Jirachi still has problems with Gyara and Mence. Vappy makes a great Gyara counter, but that's about it, considering I already have Rotom. I also feel it's prone to Mesprit syndrome.

Changes:
Restalk Swampert > SubSeed Skymin
Skarmory: Shed Shell
Tentacruel: Rapid Spin > Knock Off

[S-HIGHLIGHT]Options:
Infernape replaced by:
Mamoswine
Porygon2
Anything Else.

WoW over Reflect on Rotom?[/S-HIGHLIGHT]

 

[Zetta-Chan]

Porygon 2 would serve as a great lead here, this is the set I use.

Porygon 2 @ Leftovers
Bold Nature / Trace
252 HP / 120 Def / 40 SpA / 96 SpD
- Ice Beam
- Magic Coat
- Discharge
- Recover

Also WoW > Reflect on Rotom-H. The defensive boost isn't really necessary, and WoW goes with the stall concept.

BTW this is the sexiest Snorlax sprite ever.
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[Archer]

Porygon 2 would serve as a great lead here, this is the set I use.

Porygon 2 @ Leftovers
Bold Nature / Trace
252 HP / 120 Def / 40 SpA / 96 SpD
- Ice Beam
- Magic Coat
- Discharge
- Recover

Also WoW > Reflect on Rotom-H. The defensive boost isn't really necessary, and WoW goes with the stall concept.

BTW this is the sexiest Snorlax sprite ever.
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You're welcome.
I am concerned with P2 for two main reasons. Firstly, it means I lose SR support, which I really don't want to lose. Secondly, I have ways of dealing with Gyara and Mence anyway. Besides, Pory dies epically to Mixmence.

EDIT:

Actually, I am going to put ResTalk Machamp over Swampert, as CBTar 2HKOs it with Crunch. Sorry, Aquilae.

Machamp (M) @ Leftovers
Ability: No Guard
EVs: 108 HP/150 Atk/252 Def
Adamant Nature (+ Atk, -SAtk)
- Dynamic Punch
- Stone Edge
- Rest
- Sleep Talk

Also considering Mesprit over Infernape and choosing a new lead.

 

[Zetta-Chan]

Hmmm... how about Uxie as a lead? He has great bulkiness and still has decent SpA.


Uxie @ Leftovers
Impish Nature / Levitate
252 HP / 252 Def / 6 SpD
Stealth Rock: Set up your rocks early on and scare away flying types.
Yawn: Sleep Support, also to make your opponent switch.
Thunderbolt: This makes him a beast counter to Gyara, in which you might want one.
U-Turn: Scouting move, slight damage aswell.

 

[S.Bustathedog]

Why don't you use Blissey over Snorlax for the oviuse Spc.Def wall that learns stealthrock so that frees up a space for you lead (asuming you don't mind not geting SR out first).

There are no claring weaknesses excpt those pkemon that don't get hurt by spike (both kinds) and SR.

well I hope I helped, BYE

 

[.]

I would say that Swampert would be a great addition to this team, but it's no Salamence counter. I don't know if you'd prefer to go all physical or mixed, but whichever you choose it could work.

You have to come in while Salamence is Dragon Dancing, or else you're likely done for. A +1 Outrage does 76.73%-90.59% to even Max/Max Swampert, and, in return, Ice Punch doesn't always guarantee the OHKO (85.54%-101.20%). Since you're not using Stealth Rock, the OHKO happens 7.69% of the time.

Of course, this whole idea is ruined by Yache Berry or Life Orb. Life Orb guarantees the OHKO on Swampert, and Yache Berry means that your Ice Punch will only do 42.77%-50.60%.

Hippowdon could be an interesting addition to your team, as, unlike Swampert, Outrage won't OHKO it. It also may induce Sandstorm, but most of your team is immune to it and the ones not immune are bulky enough to not care much for it. Hippowdon could set up Stealth Rock, and provide a decent Salamence check.

A +1 LO Outrage from Salamence does 65.71%-77.38% to Max/Max Hippowdon. This means you can come in on Salamence, and either Roar it away (with SR that means Scizor's BP will likely do enough to OHKO). Or just plain out Ice Fang it, making Scizor's Bullet Punch definately finish it off. Without Life Orb, and with Yache Berry, Hippowdon will be taking 50.24%-59.52%. With Leftovers equipped, you have a chance to not be 2HKO'd. Hippowdon also handles all versions of physical Electivire, and can live an HP Ice/Grass and swiftly OHKO it with Earthquake.

Scizor, with some residual damage (hint: Stealth Rock) will take a good chunk out of Salamence. Choice Banded Bullet Punch does 65.36%70.78%77.11% to the standard 4/0 Salamence. It has a slight chance to even OHKO after Stealth Rock damage.

^^ My post on Smogon. Swampert is not a Tyranitar/Salamence counter with only 124 HP/40 Defense, as that. I don't know where you got the idea that Swampert was a good check for either of them honestly.

CB Crunch vs. 372 HP/226 Def Swampert: 61.56%-72.85%

Do you call that a safe counter? You rely on ScarfApe way too much also, since Salamence w/ Yache Berry lives the HP Ice, Dragon Dances again, gets +2 Attack and Speed, and destroys the rest of your team. I'd suggest a Porygon2/Hippowdon to deal with these to threats (Pory doesn't do anything to TTar though, but Hippowdon does a damn good job)

 

[Archer]

Zettachan, I'm liking that Uxie, although I'm not sure whether to run Uxie or Mesprit. I don't really need the Yawn Support, but the extra bulk looks nice. If I want a Gyarados counter, Uxie can't even guarantee a OHKO on Gyarados with Thunderbolt with 252 SAtk and Modest.

Mesprit needs a Neutral Nature and like 120 EVs, although I'm more inclined to run enough for 90%, which allows for a OHKO after 10% LO damage. Yeah, that sounds right.:D

Vance, man, read the last post, I said I'm dropping it for Champ. :D

 

[.]

Zettachan, I'm liking that Uxie, although I'm not sure whether to run Uxie or Mesprit. I don't really need the Yawn Support, but the extra bulk looks nice. If I want a Gyarados counter, Uxie can't even guarantee a OHKO on Gyarados with Thunderbolt with 252 SAtk and Modest.

Mesprit needs a Neutral Nature and like 120 EVs, although I'm more inclined to run enough for 90%, which allows for a OHKO after 10% LO damage. Yeah, that sounds right.:D

Vance, man, read the last post, I said I'm dropping it for Champ. :D

If it's not updated, I automatically assume that you're using it. And Machamp is not going to save your from DD Outrage Salamence...like, at all.

 

[Archer]

Um, Skarm can soak up Outrage, aside from that, there's not much that can deal particularly well with Mence. I am also thinking of leading with Mesprit, so that provides a half decent Mence counter. Can you see a better alternative?

I'll put a note in the OP. I'm too busy to update it yet.

 

[.]

Um, Skarm can soak up Outrage, aside from that, there's not much that can deal particularly well with Mence. I am also thinking of leading with Mesprit, so that provides a half decent Mence counter. Can you see a better alternative?

I'll put a note in the OP. I'm too busy to update it yet.

If you actually read my post, I went into detail about Hippowdon makes a wonderful Dragon Dance Salamence counter. It has a very, very slight chance of being only 3HKO'd by +1 non-LO Outrage, and can phaze and Ice Fang it all day.

 

[Archer]

Actually, that would fit perfectly, if you think that Rotom can handle Gyarados fine. Yeah?

It can set up SR, SS (Which is good and bad...)

 

[.]

Actually, that would fit perfectly, if you think that Rotom can handle Gyarados fine. Yeah?

As long as you don't come in on a Gyarados with already +1 Attack, then yes, Rotom is a passable counter to Gyarados.