How do you feel about dungeons?

Mab

fleeting assembly
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    (not referencing PMD here, dungeon in the more general sense)

    Do you enjoy dungeon crawling in the frequent cave/forest/mountain levels, or do you consider them an annoying distraction from the real exploration? What's your favorite dungeon in the game and what did it do well?

    For my favorite I would say that I really enjoyed the Chargestone Cave in Unova. The premise is original as far as anything else in the series, and the puzzle, Professor cutscene, appearance, and interesting wild encounters all fit together nicely to create a unique setting with its own mini-lore. I wish that much thought and design could have gone into every dungeon area instead of a lot of them just feeling like boring filler.
     
    I also really love Chargestone cave. It's beautiful and an interesting concept.
     
    I mostly like the starting forests since they're usually short and have expected Pokemon like bug and Grass. The later caves just feel like a hassle to get through imo.
     
    I found caves kind of irritating as they were time-consuming and you can get lost trying to find your way.
     
    I'm usually a fan of the forests; they're usually not that complicated, no random encounters, and I just like wooded areas in real life. I really do wish we had some more complex, late game forests to explore.

    Caves are a bit of a different story. I dislike that they often require multiple HMs to navigate (and useless ones as that *coughrocksmashcough*), and I've often had to run back to a PC to swap out a key Pokémon for an HM slave to get through a cave. I'm also not a fan of random encounters, and caves almost always feature this mechanic. Plus, unless the cave is wide and tall, I don't them in real life.

    I'm not saying I dislike all caves in Pokémon though, Mt. Coronet was pretty intense, while Chargestone and Meteor Falls were quite unique.

    If you consider the underwater segments dungeons, then I have to rate them highly. They didn't feature random encounters, did provide some interesting items, and were quite an interesting way of exploring. I wish they'd come back more prominently ( Alola is a chain of islands = perfect opportunity)
     
    It really depends on the game in question. I've been finding in recent years that in pretty much anything other than traditional Turn-Based RPGs, I enjoy the prospect of dungeons. Something about going into these areas with self-contained stories, enemies, and environments without having to be annoyed by encounters every few steps is just fun to me, it really hits at the heart of what I like about RPG exploration.

    Except when they're asset flips or open-world distractions. I'm looking at you, Elder Scrolls.

    But Pokemon's a bit of a mixed bag because its dungeons aren't really that and all and it is, all in all, a traditional Turn-Based RPG. But the thing is, I actually remember my time in most dungeons throughout the series, and not just because I've played them a lot. But Silph Co., both in structure and design, isn't like any other dungeon in the series. It's surprisingly freeform (especially for RBY) while still managing to lead you on without breaking away from its emphasis on exploring the area, and it rewarded you for opening up new areas which made it a generally fun experience in a way that not a lot of dungeons do. This in mind, RBY, in particular, was pretty big on this idea of giving you a preview of coming attractions and making you figure out how to get there. If any of you've play the Souls series then you're probably very familiar with this idea. In all likelihood it was probably meant to veil the area's design emphasis on circular or roundabout areas versus a more linear style as seen later in the series, but it works to great effect (and basically makes shortcut locations built-in). Not always, of course. Mt. Moon was a thing, and uuuuuuuuuugh. Uuuuuuuugh. Not even gonna talk about it. Nope nope.

    But I feel like one thing that becomes more of a theme later is "brevity". In my Pokemon X and Y nuzlockes, I remember always feeling this sigh of relief when I saw a dungeon coming up (save for one. That one ended more runs than it saved). A large reason for this was, well, A. they didn't require HMs (still those games' greatest achievement and I'll always be thankful for that), B. They were short, and C. They were chock full of new Pokemon. And I feel like all of these things are important because while it made them less engaging than dungeons of other titles in the series, they were also less tedious. Encounters were more interesting because there were more Pokemon at this point but, despite this, if I just wanted to get out I wouldn't need to wade through five years worth of zubats to do so.

    This design philosophy does continue into Generation 7, though here the HM usage is reintroduced since it has the freedom to do so without being a detriment to the player's party. This gave them the freedom to make more engaging dungeon experiences without constantly slapping the player in the face with HM choice boxes, while at the same time not making them waste a slot in their party. And did they take this to full effect?

    Good question, not really sure. Ended up losing my nuzlocke at around the half-way point, maybe a bit after. Aaaaand my nuzlocke is also my first playthrough so. But I will say that of the dungeons I have explored, it's mostly a no, but there are also less dungeons in this game than there are in others with the game placing more emphasis on world exploration, often intent on making dungeons optional as often as they're necessary, which I feel is a nice touch, especially since where these optional dungeons lead you tend to make for pretty nice surprises.
     
    I feel Chargestone Cave deserves a thumbs-up, it's smooth and doesn't require Strength HM to pass thru. Also forest is an interesting outside dungeon. HMs required for dungeon is ok at least keep it only certain HMs such as needing strength to get a recovery item or a TM, but outside pushing boulders, surfing or waterfalling without getting any items it's just utterly waste of moveslot and invaluable time just say don't have the badge for this HM and you don't acquire this X badge for X HM it just putting more restrictions than just getting some items instead of making it puzzle-like. WHO DOES THAT!
     
    Honestly I don't like forests much compared to caves. While they are comparatively light on HMs, they also nearly never have as much thought put into their designs. I had a look through the existing forest maps and couldn't really find one that was particularly unique or introduced a new mechanic needed to traverse it (besides Cut trees), whereas while caves do suffer from an excess of Zubats, several of them do at least have interesting or unique designs. I mentioned Chargestone Cave in the OP, but some other cool ones are Lost Cave, Shoal Cave, Terra Cave, and Wayward Cave. All of those feature some kind of unique mechanic that the forests can't really compare with.
     
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