How large of a map is too large?

[Patsfan22]

Haha, yes. That's what I was talking about. I'm not exactly sure how you should change it, but maybe distinguish the different heights. If you make any changes, post some screen caps. :)

 

[JaDe.X105]

Hi, I'm new around here but still wanted to contribute to this discussion.

I agree with the general consensus that as long as you make sure the map isn't overwhelming and works (which from your screen shot and your comments, you're doing a good job) the size shouldn't be much of an issue.
The one thing I want to caution you on though is by having such a large map, you won't have much variety in the wild Pokemon encounters throughout the entire map. In other words, the Pokemon you run into at the bottom left portion of the screen will be the same as the ones in the top right after you exit the cave. This could cause "issues" with levels not matching up with where the player's Pokemon are at in the game.
This would be the only drawback I have about having such a large map. And if it comes down to it, it wouldn't be that big of a task to break a large map down into several smaller maps with connections in corresponding places.

 

[wally-217]

I was intending on making a thread for this as well. I don't want to hijack your thread but my question seems relevant:
Would larger maps be a good idea if I'm keeping the Hoenn region?
For example, I want to scale up the routes and cities a little to make them realistic but more importantly, I wanted to make the desert on Route 111 huge (more-so an east extension so the player isn't forced to trek through it. Is this a good idea, especially as I'm essentially making a sequel.

Secondly, does having larger maps (or adding more connected) have an effect on performance? I know FRLG and DPPt had waypoints to improve performance but with Hoenn not having them, I don't want to over-do it.

 

[Mister Coffee]

Spoiler:

I was intending on making a thread for this as well. I don't want to hijack your thread but my question seems relevant:
Would larger maps be a good idea if I'm keeping the Hoenn region?
For example, I want to scale up the routes and cities a little to make them realistic but more importantly, I wanted to make the desert on Route 111 huge (more-so an east extension so the player isn't forced to trek through it. Is this a good idea, especially as I'm essentially making a sequel.

Secondly, does having larger maps (or adding more connected) have an effect on performance? I know FRLG and DPPt had waypoints to improve performance but with Hoenn not having them, I don't want to over-do it.

So I'm actually playing through the old Emerald ROM right now. I'm actually doing a lot of it in order to help generate ideas with my own ROM as I play through it, as well as I'm examining the maps very carefully as I'm playing through the game. I haven't played any pokemon games in a couple years, so if I expect to make a pokemon game, I figured it might be good to get reacquainted with the series.

So as I'm running through Emerald, this is quite seriously the first time I've stopped in the middle of maps at multiple occasions in order to just look at the tiles, admire some of the smaller details, and pay attention to interesting map structures. I've found myself running back and forth through various routes in order to compare the size of the map, to the amount of obstacles, plus the consistency of wild encounters, combined with trainer battles, alongside of how many times I back track in order to heal.
The interesting thing I'm learning from playing through all of this, is that all those factors combined, essentially doubles the playability and time spent within each map. Which is essentially making the maps "feel" larger than they actually are. When I looked at the maps for "Victory Road" in my Emerald ROM, they're actually not that large, but with all the factors that I mentioned above, the maps can take a relatively long time to get through.
I'm starting to realize, that once all those factors that I mentioned are completely implemented into my large map, players are going to be spending an incredibly long time traveling through my large maps, I would even say, probably much longer than what I let alone another actual tester and/or player, would want to spend time on.

I'm quoting your post, because I think my realization might help your question a bit. I will admit, the desert area in Hoenn is rather small, I seriously passed through it in Emerald maybe about a day or two ago, so I think it would be really interesting to see this map in particular extended, since it felt underwhelming and not very exciting or important as a map. However, those other factors that contribute to the map, the more of those that you add, the more time it's going to require a player to spend in.

I'm actually planning now to work with smaller maps in the beginning (wont be using that large 100x100 anymore), as well as I am switching over to Emerald ROM as the base for my game.

 

[wally-217]

Spoiler:

So I'm actually playing through the old Emerald ROM right now. I'm actually doing a lot of it in order to help generate ideas with my own ROM as I play through it, as well as I'm examining the maps very carefully as I'm playing through the game. I haven't played any pokemon games in a couple years, so if I expect to make a pokemon game, I figured it might be good to get reacquainted with the series.

So as I'm running through Emerald, this is quite seriously the first time I've stopped in the middle of maps at multiple occasions in order to just look at the tiles, admire some of the smaller details, and pay attention to interesting map structures. I've found myself running back and forth through various routes in order to compare the size of the map, to the amount of obstacles, plus the consistency of wild encounters, combined with trainer battles, alongside of how many times I back track in order to heal.
The interesting thing I'm learning from playing through all of this, is that all those factors combined, essentially doubles the playability and time spent within each map. Which is essentially making the maps "feel" larger than they actually are. When I looked at the maps for "Victory Road" in my Emerald ROM, they're actually not that large, but with all the factors that I mentioned above, the maps can take a relatively long time to get through.
I'm starting to realize, that once all those factors that I mentioned are completely implemented into my large map, players are going to be spending an incredibly long time traveling through my large maps, I would even say, probably much longer than what I let alone another actual tester and/or player, would want to spend time on.

I'm quoting your post, because I think my realization might help your question a bit. I will admit, the desert area in Hoenn is rather small, I seriously passed through it in Emerald maybe about a day or two ago, so I think it would be really interesting to see this map in particular extended, since it felt underwhelming and not very exciting or important as a map. However, those other factors that contribute to the map, the more of those that you add, the more time it's going to require a player to spend in.

I'm actually planning now to work with smaller maps in the beginning (wont be using that large 100x100 anymore), as well as I am switching over to Emerald ROM as the base for my game.

That's a really good point actually, I seem to spend more time looking at the maps through A-map than in game, so I'll definitely take that on board. I just want to give it a more 'open-world' feel, you can see in my signature how I plan on expanding the routes and locations, I always assumed people fly everywhere once they get the badge so I could afford larger routes. The one idea I am still toying with is *abolishing* sea routes, and using coastlines as a natural barrier (obviously I would still need boulders around the outer edge) but Hoenn gets a lot of criticism for the vastness of the sea already, I suppose larger bodies of emptier water could actually make traversing it easier. My thinking is, having more room to move would give a better impression of non-linearity as you'd probably be going past different scenery every time.

 

[Mister Coffee]

Spoiler:

That's a really good point actually, I seem to spend more time looking at the maps through A-map than in game, so I'll definitely take that on board. I just want to give it a more 'open-world' feel, you can see in my signature how I plan on expanding the routes and locations, I always assumed people fly everywhere once they get the badge so I could afford larger routes. The one idea I am still toying with is *abolishing* sea routes, and using coastlines as a natural barrier (obviously I would still need boulders around the outer edge) but Hoenn gets a lot of criticism for the vastness of the sea already, I suppose larger bodies of emptier water could actually make traversing it easier. My thinking is, having more room to move would give a better impression of non-linearity as you'd probably be going past different scenery every time.

I totally know what you mean about the AMap, it tricks you into thinking everything is much smaller than it is, that 's pretty much one of the main reasons why I decided to replay Emerald, I was starting to think that a lot of my map sizing issues were due to the fact that I had lost track of the actual size of the world in game from a "players" view and was instead building it from a "creators" view. The small maps seem much more expansive when you're doing events and grinds in them that is for sure.

Your idea to expand Hoenn sounds amazing and I more or less agree with your point about map expansion due to the ease of flying. I personally am doing a lot of walking on purpose in order to understand map building better, but it is true that traversing maps became a lot less important once you get Fly. I think it could really work, in the ROM Hack: "Liquid Crystal", the hackers actually did a really good job at linking all the maps together in order to create a large traversal plane. They used the empty spots between "U" shaped maps to insert homemade maps that made the overall experience of exploration a lot less linear. It made the whole of the region feel like an actual continent worth exploring rather than a series of map shaped paths. I would love to see something like that done in Hoenn.

DON'T ABOLISH THE WATER ROUTES! I know a lot of people complain about them, but they're seriously important. They give the atmosphere that Hoenn truly is tropical. The water routes are also incredibly important to the storyline. Plus, I've been surfing around in these water routes for so crazy long now within my playthrough on Emerald, and I'm not even close to being tired of traveling through them. They're fun, and I love the moments where I feel like I'm actually lost out in the middle of the open ocean. To all those guys out there, who say, "It's too much water in Hoenn!" well I yell right back to them, "Hoenn doesn't have too much water! All the other regions just have too much land!" lol
I would actually recommend... add more sand bars and isles to the water routes, maybe put up some grass and a few small trees. That way the maps are still water routes but you can have the small isles provide patches of grass in order for rare tropical pokemon to survive and to give the player a nice little rest stop and scenery away from the continuous water.