• Our software update is now concluded. You will need to reset your password to log in. In order to do this, you will have to click "Log in" in the top right corner and then "Forgot your password?".
  • A reminder that our new forum software has 2FA! It can be accessed by clicking your username and then "Password and security" from the menu. We strongly suggest not reusing passwords for your online accounts and enabling 2FA if possible.
  • Welcome to PokéCommunity! Register now and join one of the best places on the 'net to talk Pokémon and more! Community members will not see the bottom screen advertisements.

4th Gen I want to share all my thoughts/theories on Pokémon DPPT

So, DPPT are my fav games and I replayed them many many times. So, I am had the opportunity to focus more on the lore and create some theories, that probably will still be theories, but i just wanted to share my view of these games. My theories and my views take into consideration only the games, not anime, movies and especially manga (that ruined everything imo tbh). Excuse me for my English and also, prepare yourselves, cuz this will be long lol. it will be extremely long, so do expect mistakes. i m too lazy to revise everything and correct lol.

First thing: Dialga can't actually travel in Time and Palkia can't use their (yeah it's neutral) space powers. Let's consider the Pokédex descriptions right, on the other hand why shouldn't they be right? lol. Anyway, if we read those they state that Time is stable by the heartbeat of Dialga and Space is stable by Palkia's breath. This implies two things: Space-Time is not always stable in the Pokémon World and, secondly, it looks like this is the power of Dialga and Palkia. Therefore, if the Time is regulated by Dialga's heartbeat, and Space by Palkia's breath, then, for extension, it means that Dialga and Time are one thing together and Palkia is one thing together with Space. This actually explains a lot. In the Canalave library, we read that in an ancient language the word Universe comes from the union of two words: Space and Time. Cyrus always uses the simile of DNA, therefore I think that Universe in the World of Pokémon is indeed the union of space and time and at the same time (lol), the universe is the union of distortion world and space-time, like a DNA structure (I'll talk bout this later). So, there's the reason why Dialga and Palkia are Gods, Dialga doesn't control Time, Dialga is the incarnation of Time and Palkia is the incarnation of Space. There's another reason why they are Pokémon Gods: Gods create. Arceus created Palkia, Dialga and Giratina therefore Arceus created Space, Time and the Distortion World. and those pokemon, in some way, are the universe itself. That's why Cyrus needs either Dialga or Palkia or both of them. Because if he manipulates one of them, he's manipulating the Time itself or the Space itself or both of them. It's extremely hard to explain, but I'd say that many people just believe that Dialga -> (controls with his powers) Time, while what I am saying is that Dialga = (is) Time. I could say, it's the pokémon world's humans who gave the name Time to Dialga, in some way.

Giratina. My second Theory is on the Distortion World. Now, the thing is that especially Pokémon Generations gave the wrong idea about it. Indeed Cyrus seems quite pleased that the Distortion World is so empty, but in Pokémon Platinum he clearly says he hates it and here's why. He goes with the simile of the DNA, saying Distortion World is the counterpart to our Universe (Time-Space) and therefore to RESET (remember this word) the Universe where we live, he has to change The Distortion World too. But let's be clear, why does the Distortion World exist? Of course to protect the other helix of the DNA (Time-Space), like it just happened in Pokémon Platinum, but there's more. When Cyrus uses the DNA simile he's particularly explicit and even talks about genes. Now, the thing is the Two helix of the DNA communicate between each other and therefore they share their information. What I think is that the Distortion World is extremely important because if the other Helix of DNA would be destroyed, like Cyrus was trying to do, The Distortion World itself has enough information to replace it. Now, this is a crazy Theory, but what I think is that in case of danger, the Distortion World would transform in the other part of the Universe, with all people, with all the Structures and so on. That would explain also why Cyrus was really angry and definitely NOT HAPPY about the Distortion World. he could understand that he basically lost anyway. There's an interesting part in pokemon platinum, where Cyrus tells us that the Distortion World is Giratina itself. This may be a proof of the fact that Dialga is the Time itself and that Palkia is the Space itself. We know the case of Giratina is different, because Giratina was punished in the Distortion World. They don't really have a bond. Last, but not least, it isn't said that Cyrus couldn't get out of the Distortion World. In the game, to get the grigeous orb, we need to re-enter the distortion world. we find a portal. ik this is probably gameplay, but like, this doesn't exclude the fact that portals in the distortion world can be opened even if Giratina was defeated/caught.

Cyrus and Cynthia: those characters are pretty important in the series and people often think they know each other. In the games, there's actually no proof of them having met before. But why are they so important? Is there a special bond between them? There is actually. Well, they both do the same thing: studying Pokémon legends and myths but they just do it for very very very different reasons lol. Anyway, Japanese names are even more explicit. In Japanese, Cyrus' name is Akagi, while Cynthia's is Shirona. Now, they both come from two colors Red (Cyrus) and White (Cynthia). I mean, it's clear there's the classical opposition of Good vs Evil. Red is usually associated to something bad, for example blood and white to purity and so on. But, there's something that didn't quite get me. it's about Cyrus. The name Cyrus has a meaning. It comes from an old Persian name and it means "Sun" and it obviously makes sense because he's the Boss of Team Galactic and indeed the planets revolve around the Sun, just like his commanders. Now, I haven't really speculated on the commanders' name, it could be interesting, but indeed I have a theory about them too. Anyway, in Pokemon Platinum (that we have to thank for the 80% of the gen 4 lore, yes it's also a critic to BDSP lol) there's the most intense confront between Cyrus and Cynthia. I found it to be one of the best moments of the whole Pokémon series and indeed one of my fav, if not my fav overall. Cynthia tells Cyrus that "EVERYTHING WAS ALREADY WRITTEN" (not the real quote, but that's the message. she says something like "the language we speak, the fact that we are all here, and so on...") and Cyrus tells her that he doesn't believe her and that he'll find a way to RESET (note: NOT DESTROY) the Universe in some other way. Well, that was intense, we basically had witnessed the dialogue between an atheist (Cyrus) and Cynthia, who kinda had a Medieval thought lol. Yes, basically Cynthia refers to Arceus, saying that Destiny exists and that everything has a reason in the Universe and stating that Cyrus will never win, because everything is already decided. Now, this was extremely cool for two reasons: firstly, for Legends Pokémon Arceus lol. Our ancestors will meet Arceus, just some others characters that appear in gen 4 games. Cynthis was right, there was a reason why she, us and Cyrus were there in the Distortion World: their ancestors already communicated with Arceus before. So, we could say that the main characters in gen 4 are all "chosen ones", in some way. That's pretty cool to think. Now, the second reason is: Cyrus actually has a point. He says he wants a world without wars, hate and so on and he's right. When Cynthia says that everything is written, she refers to Arceus. but wait a minute, there are some horrible things in the pokemon series that happened. For example: Arceus would have created a very aggressive Giratina, just to then imprison them into the Distortion World, but already knowing it. More: Arceus created Darkrai which is actually a very good Pokémon. Darkrai has a curse: who is around them, has nightmares, but Darkrai knowing that goes to places where there's nobody around them. More: the creation of lands and oceans was literally led by the war between Groudon and Kyogre. There are many more examples, but if we think that Cynthia's words are true, then it would mean that Arceus isn't actually so good lol. The basis of the universe and of the pokemon world was literally made by wars and violence, so Cyrus is right about this. We could also think tho, that Cynthia is actually not telling the truth, so "NOT everything is written" and even in this case, Cyrus would have a point not believing in Cynthia's words and therefore yes, he could potentially find a way to reset the Universe.

Team Galactic: what people often forget is that at the end of gen 4 games, Team Galactic is actually still active, but not in a bad way. We know that Team Galactic used to cover their bad acts by saying they were finding renewable energy. at the end of DP, Saturn is probably (it is not explicit at all tho) the new leader and they actually search for renewable energy now lol. Because yes, the Team Galactic motto was "to change the world", which has many many meanings going from good to bad. Now, there's some kind of misconception about the Commanders. There are very few differences between Mars and Jupiter. There are with Saturn tho. For now, I am not saying anything new at all and indeed there isn't much to say, except some few speculations. Saturn doesn't actually agree with Cyrus' plans. The reason why I think that is because he's the only Commander left in the Team Galactic place. Why? Well, Saturn tells us later: he clearly says that Cyrus was crazy to think to reset the universe and this reveals us that he disagreed with Cyrus' plans. That's why, Cyrus, the master planner, decided to leave him here. This doesn't imply that Jupiter and Mars actually knew his plans tho. I have some reasons to say this: firstly, Cyrus has no attachment to his Team, indeed he clearly says that he's just using them and that the universe he wants to create is just for him. (yeah, both manga about gen 4 I read basically threw away this aspect about Cyrus, making him find true friendship with his Commanders. This truly doesn't represent Cyrus' psychology tbh). So, yeah he doesn't really cara bout his Team and Saturn also accuses him to be a hypocrite because he used "the spirit" to fool the whole Galactic Team. Cyrus want to remove the spirit from the universe. Saturn actually refers to the fact that Cyrus used his speaking abilities to convince everyone. This is cool: Cyrus is literally called Master. I like to call this thing the "Cyrus' cult". The fact that his name is connected to the image of Sun explains it all: people in the Team Galactic are completely fond of him and have so much respect for him that they would everything he told em to do. Well, Jupiter and Mars are just two of those people, except they are actually stronger trainers (huh, not really actually lol). SO, yes Cyrus take them with him on the Spear Pillar, knowing they wouldn't have betrayed him like Saturn would have done. Last thing: in pokémon platinum after the heatran episode in the post game, Mars says she wants to find Cyrus (which is in the Distortion World). Jupiter doesn't say it but says she wants to do a travel. Well, imo she just doesn't want to admit she wanna search for Cyrus too, because that's just what Mars said and we all know how they kinda hate each other and the fact that they are rivals. This is just a speculation, but hey, no proofs but also no counter-proofs. In the end, I d like to share some of the most mistaken thoughts about Cyrus' philosophy. When he says he is a God, it's because he is creating a new World. Creating belongs to God's power. Then, when he says he'll be the ruler of the new world, he isn't implying in terms of power like "u re all gonna be my slaves". He's actually referring to the fact that "he's making the rules for his new world", which basically is that there will be no spirit. He doesn't change his mind. I mean, almost everywhere else from the games Cyrus changes his mind and ends up apologizing. Lol, it's literally the opposite of the games. In DPPT, all of them, he ends up frustrated and angry but even in the Distortion World he says he'll find out a way to get out and RESET the Universe again. Let's talk about the reset. Many people think Cyrus wants to destroy the Universe. Well, not at all. I think the closer definition to his actual plan is RESET. He wants to change the world REWRITING things, or better, removing the spirit, then for the rest the Universe will stay the same. Same region, same people, same pokémon, except all the changes had from the removal of spirit. But yes, he doesn't wanna destroy the Universe, in that way, as many people think. Another misconception is that Cyrus is emotionless. False. He gets angry, frustrated and even happy when he's about to rewrite the Universe. The thing is that he considers emotions to be useless and he also thinks that emotions make us imperfect because sometimes we don't think and act by logic, but by emotions, that's why he can't understand other people and that's also why he uses his languages skills to convince the members of Team Galactic. He ain't a hypocrite, my dear Saturn, he just used logic to trick u. For using emotions, Cyrus calls himself "imperfect" indeed.

Lake guardians and orbs: this is the most cryptic part of gen 4 games for me. It's not because it's hard to understand, it's just that I'd like to give a lore to everything in the game, but sometimes it's just really hard to do that because gameplay gets in the way. Well, let's start from lake guardians. In Japanese it's way more clear what's their role. In Japanese they're called "lake gods". idk why this isn't so clear in the Western games tbh. because many people just forget bout lake guardians. Even the fact that they can be called "lake trio" kinda downgrades their importance in the games. Actually, there are some important considerations to make about them. First of all, they are Guardians, so they protect something and Mesprit is really close to us. Because we are from Twinleaf Town, near the lake, so Mesprit protects us. I think the idea of Tapus can firstly be found, but in quite a different way, in gen 4 with lake guardians. My second theory tho is that they're called like this because they protect something and the famous painting kinda clears out our doubts: the orbs. But, i ll explain later. Going back to the fact that in Japanese they're called Gods, this is actually important. Well, they don't really have the look of Gods, like Dialga, Palkia, Giratina and Arceus (i love u all <3). They're Gods because Arceus created them with Dialga, Palkia and Giratina. And because they're really important. They literally represent the spirit that Cyrus want to abolish from the Universe. Let's remember that Cyrus is talking about "spirit", not only emotions, which is literally just Mesprit. Spirit, for Cyrus, includes all the virtues whose the lake guardians are the incarnation. So, the obvious question is: why is Cyrus more interested in Dialga and Palkia, while he should just mess up with the lake guardians? Looking at the Pokédex, it says that lake guardians thought people emotions, knowledge and power of will. That's their power. So, now they're basically "useless" in some way (i love them tho) because they already did their job. it's like they are "containers" of emotions, knowledge and power of will, but once those things are given to people, the game is done. u can't do anything to take them back. it's like a house gets on fire. let's suppose something broke and it went on fire, then slowly the whole house gets on fire. Yes, u can stop the fire that is coming out of that broke thing, but now it's too late, because flames are everywhere. This dark scenario kinda helps understanding what I m trying to explain lol. Lake guardians are useful just to create the red chain. I know some people asked: wait, but there are only three gems on Guardian lake's fronts, how can u build a chain out of it? The game doesn't explain it, obviously. I think they studied the lake guardians' gems and then found a way to synthesize the red chain. Speculation on this: there's some sort of inner connection between the lake trio and the god trio because they can create their orbs and obviously the red chain. it looks like the secret is in their red gem, I guess. The most cryptic part is bout orbs tho. Why are orbs created? When were they created? Why do we find em? Ok, I actually see no reason for Mesprit, Azelf and Uxie to create those orbs. I'll talk about grigeous orb later, because that's another world (ahahah so funny -_-). ok, the orbs literally are just power-ons for the god trio. Do they actually need them? Dialga and Palkia really don't, Giratina maybe. In pokémon platinum, u can call dialga and palkia taking those orbs to the Spear Pillar. So, the first thing that comes to my mind is that Cyrus used those orbs to call Dialga or Palkia or both at the Spear Pillar. The thing is that, they just appear the second time we go to spear pillar. as soon as we battle dialga and palkia, there's nothing. That's cryptic and I couldn't find a way to justify this, if not the fact that it's just some sort of gameplay stuff, maybe. idk, it actually doesn't make any sense either tbh. they could have left the orb there tbh. It could be a prize u find the second time u reach the Spear Pillar. In this case, it would be gameplay tho. I have a crazy theory, which is actually crazy lol, but it puts all the pieces together. Mesprit, Azelf and Uxie made a an orb for us. it's crazy, but like in all gen 4 games they see us trying to save dialga/palkia or giratina and Mesprit has a special bond with us. The fact that we're there and the fact that we have the privilege to fight against those Gods and eventually catch them means we are "the chosen ones" and mesprit, azelf and uxie gift us with an orb after we caught em or defeated them. This makes sense because if we caught em, we can use the orb to power them, if we didn't catch them, we could call them back with the orb (this can't be done in the games, but according to the lore and to pokemon platinum, it could be possibly done). This theory kinda works for Giratina as well. It doesn't make any sense to create the grigeous orb before we get into the Distortion World. And the reason is pretty easy to understand: Giratina was put there as a punishment. If the orb always existed, Giratina could have taken it and could have run away at any moment. Not much of a punishment, right? So, we get in the Distortion World, we fight Giratina and then we found out that lake guardians gifted us and Giratina with the orb. This is really interesting, because that's almost like betraying Aceus' orders. But maybe, as Cynthia says, everything is written. Arceus knew about this too maybe. This crazy theory takes into account the fact that Cyrus didn't need any orb to summon dialga/palkia/both. Red chain could do it and it makes sense as well, because it comes from the pokemon who created the orbs, that can summon the god trio. so, basically it's possible that red chain could summon dialga and palkia.

EDIT: I have a new speculation. In DPPT we always have to save clefairy from Jupiter. She tells us that Team Galactic is studying "the pokemon of Space". This is pretty interesting and it's quite an insight on something that isn't at all explained in the pokemon games, which is: the relationship between the Universal entities (Dialga, Palkia, Giratina, Arceus) and pokemon that are connected to the Universe, like clefairy which is connected to the moon or maybe Deoxys who is an Alien Pokemon. It's not a big info, but it just looks like this is a clue that Cyrus began his studies from Pokémon that are connected to the Universe. I find it interesting.

I think that's all for now lol. I think i forgot something else probably, but these are my main theories/speculations on my favorite games. I wanted to share them with others ^_^
I think i already spotted some mistakes, i m sorry for it.
Last edited:


Jubilant hero
  • Age 23
  • Seen Dec 1, 2021
Gen 4 for most post game content prior to BW2. I never got to get spiky eared Pichu but it's forever my favorite urban legend.


Fossil Maniac
interesting read! especially loved the speculation residing on rules of genetics since that interests me a lot in terms of biology too lol.