[Discussion] If I were too make an NPC Tournament with every Pokémon trainer from every generation, should I revert changes done too previous Pokémon for trainers

[Competitively]

Quite the mouthful title, lol

Anyway, this project I'm doing all stemmed from a youtuber named Pimanrules where he took every trainer in Pokémon red and made them fight in a round robin tournament. I watched it a couple months ago and I thought it was pretty cool. It made think what would the results be for other generations. I pondered on it but I eventually forgot about it and moved on. I rewatched it a couple weeks ago and my overly-ambitious mind asked "What if I did something like this but instead of being a round-robin tournament I setup a twitch stream that would have every Pokémon trainer across from the games fight each other endlessly for viewers too bet on similar to saltybet?"

My mind went crazy thinking about that ideaand I am now attempting to work on this project and hopefully in a year or two get it up and running (probably not lol). While I was working on this project though a major problem occurred. How do I treat Pokémon that have changed across the generations? The solution too me was just too make a new form for that Pokémon that was changed and revert it back too it's original. An easy example of this is something like cantina where I just create a duplicate form of gengar but with levitate. What I realized though is that by doing I would a create a huge rabbit hole of issues but if I don't do thjs I feel like I wouldn't be giving the character justice. So I decided too come and ask the internet for help because the internet is always right. If you could give me feedback on this question as well as other questions I have I would greatly appreciate it. Thank you!

Should Pokémon trainers be able too use items they had in their original games? (Full restore, x items, etc)

Should all trainers Pokémon be set too 50 or should their Pokémon's level be unchanged?

Should battle facility masters be included?


Should Pokémon changes be reverted for trainers from the generation before the change?

How should double and multi battles be handled?

What determines what ability a Pokémon will have if their game didn't feature abilities in the first place?

For games that have DVs instead of IVs, what should determine what IVs a Pokémon trainers pokemon have?

Should Pokémon trainers from games that don't have EV systems have maxed out stats like in the original?

Should I take into account LGPEs candy system for trainers that utilize it?

Should a signature move/ability of a pokemon be reverted if the trainer is from before the change (ex:kings shield being -2 instead of -1 or gale wings always having priority to only having priority at full health)?

That's all of the questions for now , will edit later if I have more.

 

[StCooler]

This is an interesting debate (and a very interesting Twitch stream idea).

But ultimately, this is YOUR project. YOU decide the rules. YOU decide what you want to test. There is no definitive answer there. I can only give you my opinions, but they don't have more importance than another's, and more importantly, than yours ^^

How do I treat Pokémon that have changed across the generations? The solution too me was just too make a new form for that Pokémon that was changed and revert it back too it's original. An easy example of this is something like cantina where I just create a duplicate form of gengar but with levitate. What I realized though is that by doing I would a create a huge rabbit hole of issues but if I don't do thjs I feel like I wouldn't be giving the character justice. So I decided too come and ask the internet for help because the internet is always right.

I think many won't agree with me on this. I'll tell you what I did in my fangame (it's not released yet so don't ask XD).
To me, the current version of Pokémons defines what it has always been in the Pokémon lore. Sure, it introduces inconsistency if you read the dialogues from RBY and compare it to a dialogue from SS, but who cares. Whatever the current state of the Pokémon is, it should be considered the "definitive" version of it. The past versions don't matter anymore.
Another way to look at it is: would the trainers have different Pokémons if the Pokémons had different typings/abilities? My guess is: probably not.
There is something I am uncomfortable with: learnsets. I haven't played Sword/Shield but I know that some Pokémon lost moves (the most annoying being Hidden Power, Return, Toxik). In my own game, all Pokémons have their "current" version in terms of statistics, typings, abilities, and so on, but I have combined learnsets: the Gen 7 learnsets and Gen 8 learnsets.

However:

An easy example of this is something like cantina where I just create a duplicate form of gengar but with levitate. What I realized though is that by doing I would a create a huge rabbit hole of issues but if I don't do thjs I feel like I wouldn't be giving the character justice.

Can you elaborate on that?
Because in my game, I did make several forms for Pokémons that had noticeable changes (for example, I have a Water/Normal form for Azumarill), because one of my goals was to allow for more variability in Pokémon teams. This is not your goal here, but I'm still curious about the issues you were thinking about.

So I decided too come and ask the internet for help because the internet is always right.

Yeah I read that the Earth was flat so...

Ok, let's answer the questions:

Should Pokémon trainers be able too use items they had in their original games? (Full restore, x items, etc)

I am biased here: I like strategic Pokémon battles, thus without items. So no items. Items are cheating, and I assume you want the fairest battles.

Should all trainers Pokémon be set too 50 or should their Pokémon's level be unchanged?

Again, I like strategic battles, so there shouldn't be level gaps that would make battles unfair.

Should battle facility masters be included?

Yes, why not? They have legendary Pokémons but... Maybe you can do a version without battle facility masters, and a version with them.

Should Pokémon changes be reverted for trainers from the generation before the change?

For your game's purposes, I wouldn't.

What determines what ability a Pokémon will have if their game didn't feature abilities in the first place?

Keep the current version of the Pokémon. This is too much bother.

For games that have DVs instead of IVs, what should determine what IVs a Pokémon trainers pokemon have?

Keep the current version of the battle mechanics. This is too much bother.

Should Pokémon trainers from games that don't have EV systems have maxed out stats like in the original?

If you want fairness, give EV'd sets to everyone.

Should I take into account LGPEs candy system for trainers that utilize it?

I'll be harsh here: LGPE didn't exist. Look at this red light and... *FLASH*
This is a game mechanic that exists only in LGPE so don't bother. It's not implemented in Essentials anyways XD

Should a signature move/ability of a pokemon be reverted if the trainer is from before the change (ex:kings shield being -2 instead of -1 or gale wings always having priority to only having priority at full health)?

Keep the current version of the Pokémon. This is too much bother.

 

[Competitively]

This is an interesting debate (and a very interesting Twitch stream idea).

But ultimately, this is YOUR project. YOU decide the rules. YOU decide what you want to test. There is no definitive answer there. I can only give you my opinions, but they don't have more importance than another's, and more importantly, than yours ^^


I think many won't agree with me on this. I'll tell you what I did in my fangame (it's not released yet so don't ask XD).
To me, the current version of Pokémons defines what it has always been in the Pokémon lore. Sure, it introduces inconsistency if you read the dialogues from RBY and compare it to a dialogue from SS, but who cares. Whatever the current state of the Pokémon is, it should be considered the "definitive" version of it. The past versions don't matter anymore.
Another way to look at it is: would the trainers have different Pokémons if the Pokémons had different typings/abilities? My guess is: probably not.
There is something I am uncomfortable with: learnsets. I haven't played Sword/Shield but I know that some Pokémon lost moves (the most annoying being Hidden Power, Return, Toxik). In my own game, all Pokémons have their "current" version in terms of statistics, typings, abilities, and so on, but I have combined learnsets: the Gen 7 learnsets and Gen 8 learnsets.

However:


Can you elaborate on that?
Because in my game, I did make several forms for Pokémons that had noticeable changes (for example, I have a Water/Normal form for Azumarill), because one of my goals was to allow for more variability in Pokémon teams. This is not your goal here, but I'm still curious about the issues you were thinking about.


Yeah I read that the Earth was flat so...

Ok, let's answer the questions:


I am biased here: I like strategic Pokémon battles, thus without items. So no items. Items are cheating, and I assume you want the fairest battles.


Again, I like strategic battles, so there shouldn't be level gaps that would make battles unfair.


Yes, why not? They have legendary Pokémons but... Maybe you can do a version without battle facility masters, and a version with them.


For your game's purposes, I wouldn't.


Keep the current version of the Pokémon. This is too much bother.


Keep the current version of the battle mechanics. This is too much bother.


If you want fairness, give EV'd sets to everyone.


I'll be harsh here: LGPE didn't exist. Look at this red light and... *FLASH*
This is a game mechanic that exists only in LGPE so don't bother. It's not implemented in Essentials anyways XD


Keep the current version of the Pokémon. This is too much bother.

I'm glad your intrigued by the idea. Too elaborate on doing the character justice, let's say we had wallys final rematch team in the post game. In the fight, he has original gale wings talonflame and it is something the player has take into account. If I were too revert it too the original, the fight would be slightly altered as talonflame can no longer have priority. Would it still really be the same fight as the original games since I made that change? If I end up reverting it, as I said it creates a ton more issues that have too be addressed and some people could be crazy enough too argue that "oh fairy didn't exist in generation 5 so ghetsis hydregion shouldn't be weak too fairy lol" and stupid shit like that. This is why I made this post really. I didn't really know when is it considered too much too make the fight as accurate as possible too the original.

As for what I mean by form changes, I'm not very familiar with essentials but from my understanding is that every Pokémon has forms by default and new forms that can be created. If I were too want too revert stuff for a Pokémon, I could essentially make a form of the Pokémon that is exactly the same as the original but the changes that were made across the generational gap would be reverted back. So if I wanted too give gengar levitate back, I would create a new form of gengar that has access too levitate and keep the old cursed body still available. That way if a gen 7 trainer has gengar I can give it cursed body and for anything before that I can give it levitate.

I think you can tell by now a big priority of this project is that the trainer battles are as accurate as it can too the original. But at a point, it might become too accurate to the point where it hinders a viewing experience that's a problem. A good example of this if I should scale the trainers to level 50 or not. Even if I were too separate the trainers between tiers so trainers within their own tier can only queue into each other, there's likely too be a lot of matches were it's just "I have level advantage so I win lmaoezgg". This can be a bad thing or a good thing depending on the circumstances

Lastly, the internet being always right was clearly a joke lmao