Is Ash a better Water/Dragon pokemon trainer than Misty/Iris in XY ?

Rayquaza250

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    Misty and Iris were for the most part shown to have more expertise and experience than Ash when it came to knowledge about pokemon. Both have won official battles against Ash in the past and are only girls to do so. But, XY seems to have changed things a lot since Ash gets Greninja (His strongest pokemon till date), Noivern and Goodra in this region.

    Now, suppose if they were to battle using a type specific pokemon (water and dragon types in this case), do you guys think that Ash might win against Misty/Iris ?

    I think he would definitely win if it's a 3 on 3 type specific battle like he had with Misty back in Johto. Greninja is stronger than all of Misty's captures including Mega Gyarados. Goodra is capable of taking down Iris's Dragonite and Noivern can take care of the rest.
     
    He might win against Misty, though only because Gym Leading's most likely going to atrophy her skills (since AG idiotically decided to depict the Hoenn Gym Leaders as wimps by losing to Ash's Rookies in a single battle, Brawley and possibly Roxanne aside, and even Kanto implied that gym leading's not all it's cracked up to be by some of Blaine's comments.). As far as Iris, she might be tougher to beat, but then again, she's only got one region under her belt, so who knows?
     
    Eh, Ash is more of a jack of all trades trainer who is really good at improvising but I have never found him to be a particularly strong trainer in any one type.

    Where he shines is, like his league battle with Paul, having Infernape dig and burn the field to get rid of acid drop, or having Charizard melt the field when it was in a standoff with Blastoise against Gary.

    Or in the battle with...I cant remeber her name, but she had the pig who rolled, and he had Totodile dig a trench and then Pikachu threw it and hit it with electric shock when defenseless.

    So, I guess, I dont think Ash is particularly good with any type(his best seems to be fire), and he isnt really that great at preparation, but he is ridiculously good at improvising in battle and reacting creatively to situations, especially when his back is against the wall.
     
    SlowMotionSprint said:
    Eh, Ash is more of a jack of all trades trainer who is really good at improvising but I have never found him to be a particularly strong trainer in any one type.

    Where he shines is, like his league battle with Paul, having Infernape dig and burn the field to get rid of acid drop, or having Charizard melt the field when it was in a standoff with Blastoise against Gary.

    Or in the battle with...I cant remeber her name, but she had the pig who rolled, and he had Totodile dig a trench and then Pikachu threw it and hit it with electric shock when defenseless.

    So, I guess, I dont think Ash is particularly good with any type(his best seems to be fire), and he isnt really that great at preparation, but he is ridiculously good at improvising in battle and reacting creatively to situations, especially when his back is against the wall.
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    You mean Whitney. And for the record, it wasn't a Pig, it was Miltank. I do agree there, though.
     
    Lets see , Iris couldn't evolve Axew despite raising it for an entire series.
    Ash manage to evolve Goomy and Noibat within a few episode.
    One of them was a baby like Axew.
    Also , Ash help calming down a Garchamp.
    Ash should be a Real Dragon Master now! If Iris has to evolve Axew to be a Dragon Master and gain super-natural power from raising Dragon pokemon then Ash should also have same power as her.

    In fact , Iris should gain an inferority complex toward Ash for evolving two Dragon pokemon and start to see him as her Rival.
    At least , That would be good for her character development then handing her over a freaking free Dragonite.
     
    Famon said:
    Lets see , Iris couldn't evolve Axew despite raising it for an entire series.
    Ash manage to evolve Goomy and Noibat within a few episode.
    One of them was a baby like Axew.
    Also , Ash help calming down a Garchamp.
    Ash should be a Real Dragon Master now! If Iris has to evolve Axew to be a Dragon Master and gain super-natural power from raising Dragon pokemon then Ash should also have same power as her.

    In fact , Iris should gain an inferority complex toward Ash for evolving two Dragon pokemon and start to see him as her Rival.
    At least , That would be good for her character development then handing her over a freaking free Dragonite.
    Click to expand...

    What's to say her Axew just simply didn't want to evolve? Ever thought of that?
     
    I believe Iris is a better Dragon trainer than Ash. Noivern may be a Dragon, but I believe it's the Flying part of it that Ash is skilled with. Ash has continuously shown strengths with his Flying types throughout all of the seasons, and a lot of the training that Ash did with Noivern before it evolved was based on its flying abilities. Then we have Goodra, but personally I believe Goodra is generally an easy Pokémon to raise (at least with the way it was portrayed in the anime). Iris, on the other hand, is capable of capturing the emotions of Dragons (ie. Druddigon and Dragonite) and has a better understanding of them (her fear of Ice types xD).
     
    I honestly doubt Misty can get past Ash-Greninja despite being much stronger than most gym leaders in Kanto. Ash-Greninja overpowered goddamn Diantha's Mega Gardevoir and champions are known for 6-0ing gym leaders and trainers that are the same level.

    As for Iris, Noivern and Goodra don't really have any feats for now so I'd wait at least for Ash vs Sawyer to end so I can give my opinion. From what it seems though Mega Sceptile is comparable to Ash-Greninja, and probably superior to Ash's dragons (since Pika will likely faint next imo). Goodra would seem to be the star of the match, but I'd like Noivern to take out one Pokemon too, maybe Sawyer's Aegislash.
     
    KorpiklaaniVodka said:
    I honestly doubt Misty can get past Ash-Greninja despite being much stronger than most gym leaders in Kanto. Ash-Greninja overpowered goddamn Diantha's Mega Gardevoir and champions are known for 6-0ing gym leaders and trainers that are the same level.
    Click to expand...

    Eh, I wouldn't be too sure about that. Brandon and Noland at the very least could surpass Elite 4 and even Championship due to their being able to train Legendary Pokémon, something none of the Elite 4 or Champions have EVER been demonstrated as doing. Ash beat Brandon via Pikachu (taking out Regice with minimum effort, in fact), and then he got his butt kicked by a retired trainer who isn't even pursuing training by this point (Gary), a Pokémon owned by a trainer who while he himself was a veteran, said Pokémon were likely/confirmed rookies twice (Paul), and lost to a beginning trainer just as the latter had his foot out of the door to start his journey (Trip). And I have cynicism as to whether Misty will even get far in becoming a Water Pokémon Master by being a forced Gym Leader thanks in large part to how the gym leaders were mismanaged in AG and BW. Only DP and XY have come close to actually getting them to regain their glory, and even then it wasn't done all that well.
     
    weedle_mchairybug said:
    Eh, I wouldn't be too sure about that. Brandon and Noland at the very least could surpass Elite 4 and even Championship due to their being able to train Legendary Pokémon, something none of the Elite 4 or Champions have EVER been demonstrated as doing. Ash beat Brandon via Pikachu (taking out Regice with minimum effort, in fact), and then he got his butt kicked by a retired trainer who isn't even pursuing training by this point (Gary), a Pokémon owned by a trainer who while he himself was a veteran, said Pokémon were likely/confirmed rookies twice (Paul), and lost to a beginning trainer just as the latter had his foot out of the door to start his journey (Trip). And I have cynicism as to whether Misty will even get far in becoming a Water Pokémon Master by being a forced Gym Leader thanks in large part to how the gym leaders were mismanaged in AG and BW. Only DP and XY have come close to actually getting them to regain their glory, and even then it wasn't done all that well.
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    What you are referring to are outliers, and one of the main reasons why Pokemon is so shit... Pikachu defeated Regice but gets its ass kicked by a level 5 Snivy, while Sceptile ties with May's Blaziken (really?) and later defeats Tobias's Darkrai in one shot. This is why people call Ash a dumb trainer, because he loses to trainers like Trip with a simple Snivy and can't win a Pokemon League despite Pikachu beating Regice and Charizard defeating Articuno.

    Pokemon is not One Piece or DBZ where everything is linear and progresses, pokemon is an anime with stats that are simply messed up and all over the place. People see the bad showings and call Ash a shitty character because of him losing to Snivy.
     
    KorpiklaaniVodka said:
    What you are referring to are outliers, and one of the main reasons why Pokemon is so ****... Pikachu defeated Regice but gets its ass kicked by a level 5 Snivy, while Sceptile ties with May's Blaziken (really?) and later defeats Tobias's Darkrai in one shot. This is why people call Ash a dumb trainer, because he loses to trainers like Trip with a simple Snivy and can't win a Pokemon League despite Pikachu beating Regice and Charizard defeating Articuno.

    Pokemon is not One Piece or DBZ where everything is linear and progresses, pokemon is an anime with stats that are simply messed up and all over the place. People see the bad showings and call Ash a ****ty character because of him losing to Snivy.
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    I know, and I hated it as well (Pokémon really SHOULD be DBZ-like, especially when a large factor of the show IS about improvements), but it is what it is. In fact, that bit regarding Brandon, and how, despite it pretty much being Ash's sole major accomplishment within the entirety of AG, ended up treated as a joke afterwards, is one of the reasons why I hated AG. Say what you will about Johto, at least THAT showed actual progression.
     
    If I was to compare Ash to Iris/Misty, I'd say that the developments between Ash and Iris surely suggests that Ash has a better way of raising and dealing with dragon types (and possibly Pokemon altogether?) but don't really think he would be considered a better water Pokemon trainer than Misty.

    Iris' characterisation and development in BW was pretty horrid IMO. Even Ash's was pretty poor if you ask me. XY has rectified development in plots and progression in Pokemon experience for me which shows in Ash's Kalos team. I'd like to see Iris and compare her to Ash thus far, not where we left her.

    Same for Misty, I suppose. But I wouldn't like Ash to surpass her in any stance. It make her look rather redundant and inferior if Ash was a top water trainer.
     
    Surpass Misty as a water trainer? I don't think so. Misty beat Ash in the Whirl Cup which proved she was a better Water Trainer. And even though Ash has raised Greninja well, which was also Greninja himself training himself, Ash is really poor with water type pokemon.

    As for Iris and Dragons.... I would say he surpasses her in ever aspect. She is a terrible Dragon Tamer for being afraid of Ice. Ash has shown that he is indeed a better Dragon Tamer with Noivern and Goodra. Even Charizard could be counted along with Gible being better,
     
    Famon said:
    Lets see , Iris couldn't evolve Axew despite raising it for an entire series.
    Ash manage to evolve Goomy and Noibat within a few episode.
    One of them was a baby like Axew.
    Also , Ash help calming down a Garchamp.
    Ash should be a Real Dragon Master now! If Iris has to evolve Axew to be a Dragon Master and gain super-natural power from raising Dragon pokemon then Ash should also have same power as her.

    In fact , Iris should gain an inferority complex toward Ash for evolving two Dragon pokemon and start to see him as her Rival.
    At least , That would be good for her character development then handing her over a freaking free Dragonite.
    Click to expand...

    Raising a certain Pokemon into its final form doesn't equal being a "master" though. In the anime a certain master of a type has to have extensive knowledge on that specific type. Misty and Iris both know a lot about Dragon/Water types. Ash does not. He knows more about individual Pokemon rather than a type.

    Also Iris wasn't actively trying to evolve Axew. She knew Axew wanted to evolve but she still wasn't using him a lot. He's still young. Ash evolving two actively battling Pokemon over Iris means nothing.

    I think I answered the question in that answer. No. Ash can raise individual Pokemon better because he gets to know them. Misty/Iris know a lot about their respective types.
     
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