Is it selfish to have children?

[aruchan]

Depends why, like most things in life. I'm not sure I want to have children at all, but I sort of want my genes to pass on, so I guess that's selfish. The line of selfish/not selfish is really vague...

 

[-ty-]

I know a woman quite well, who has 5 kids. She doesn't work. She is able to work. She collects child support, food stamps, medical insurance, home, everything she needs. On top of all of that, she doesn't do housework; the state will pay for a care-taker to do her laundry, cook, and clean. I don't think that there are TOO many of these types of people, but yes, they are selfish.

My parents both have jobs, and could be having the time of their life if they didn't have kids, they would have tens of thousands of dollars left over to spend on themselves for vacations, luxuries, or anything really. But they decided to have kids, pay for EVERYTHING, nothing besides public school provided by the state, and they are now helping with tuition for 4 kids in college.

 

[Sunny Castform]

I'm a simple guy so I guess I have a pretty simplistic view on this. I only think a child should be brought into the world if it can be properly cared for. I only think it's a selfish decision made by parents if the parents cannot provide the resources necessary for the thing to have a good life. Terrible living conditions, not enough food, NOT ENOUGH LOVE...

 

[Livewire]

I'm a simple guy so I guess I have a pretty simplistic view on this. I only think a child should be brought into the world if it can be properly cared for. I only think it's a selfish decision made by parents if the parents cannot provide the resources necessary for the thing to have a good life. Terrible living conditions, not enough food, NOT ENOUGH LOVE...

This, pretty much.

It's only selfish if parents deliberately have children for federal benefits, that's abusing the system and morally reprehensible. Kinda like the Duggar family.

 

[Lalapizzame]

Something tells me the subsidies of the state are insufficient to establish the desire to have a child. There may be some who have children and use state support as their basis, but I am deeply skeptical costs are that low or subsidies are that extensive.

 

[Dragonite Ernston]

Some people would say that it's selfish not to have children. That's all I have to say about that.

 

[Shining Raichu]

I was actually intending to bring this up as a secondary topic to the thread, but I see Dragonite Ernston beat me to it already.

Some people would indeed say that it's selfish not to have children. I, however, am totally blanking on valid reasons why they would think this. The only reasons I can think of are religious, what with them encouraging sex for the purpose of procreation only, but I tend not to put much stock in religious 'reasoning'.

So, would you say it's selfish not to have children? If so, why do you think this?

 

[Zet]

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I don't know why some people think it's selfish to have kids, while others think it's selfish to not have them. I wish they would all just agree to agree that children are optional.

 

[Flowerchild]

Because I was thinking that those living in extreme poverty really shouldn't bring children into their world just to suffer like they do.

Agreed. If you are extremely poor, have low social status, or are cruel to others, having children would be selfish. They'll just suffer and/or hate you. Especially if you're cruel to others, children in particular. Why would you bring them into the world if all you are going to do is torture them? That's selfish.

 

[Lalapizzame]

If you engage in small-scale agriculture (family farms) in a backward and antiquated scenario it is not unreasonable to want more children. Knowing that the mortality rate in such undeveloped circumstances would be extremely high, it is understandable why the mother and father would want to bear more fruit. The immediate value of their kids once they have gone past the first five years of life can also be useful, magnified once you retire and need someone to support you. Back in the days of child labor, it was also good to have a handful of children for future economic benefit (depending on their incomes).

Incidentally, the more developed and wealthy a country is, the lower the national fertility rate. This becomes a problem past a certain point (early-twentieth century Europe began to see that problem, France had suffered from low birthrates compared to death rates since Napoleon was deposed, causing a stagnation at around 40 million until the late 20th century baby boom). We should thank the poor in our country for having children, while scorning explosive growth in third-world populations like in Africa.

I don't see how bringing them into a poor family is torture / inspiring hatred. They may look upon the lives of their better-off colleagues but that will inspire envy, not anger. As long as the family is clearly doing all it can to feed itself, the child should not and most likely will not feel mental frustration. I also believe having children from poorer-off circumstances is a good thing in some ways, allowing them to stand times of hardship without breaking like a bud in the face of wind and understand the necessity of frugality and saving.

 

[femtrooper]

Ahhh, I love this question. The concept of having children has always fascinated me because sure, it's necessary to keep the human race going...but no one really thinks about that when they have kids. It's not like, "Honey, I'm concerned about the human race, so I kinda think we should contribute in keeping it going!" No. I want kids because I think it's so cool that I can create a life, but that is slightly selfish. I live in a country that is not overpopulated like some, but still, my boyfriend and I do want kids (or kid) in the future simply because it's expected in society and really because it's pretty neat. I want a mini me. I think being a parent would be wonderful and rewarding, but yes, it's kind of for my own benefit. I don't think there is an answer to this question, it is one of those 'thinker' type questions. It's just something to keep in the back of your mind. It's really quite interesting.

 

[Corvus of the Black Night]

I can really only see one reason why someone would have children for a selfish reason, and that was if they wanted to gloat about them and have them more like pets than a new being. In that case, those parents are not mature and probably not sane...

 

[lx_theo]

Is it selfish to have children?
Not in itself

Is it selfish to have more children than there are parents?
This, yes, I think it is. I can understand some people having three children, but it seems to be pushing it a bit. Attitudes that its still normal to have a herd of kids is whats causing population issues (along with advancements allowing healthier lives, of course).

Should there be laws against having many children?
No, thats just wrong. What we should do is make huge incentives to have less kids, like to lower tax benefits as you get to a point in children numbers. Stuff like that. If there was a sort of law involving restrictions, the worst I could imagine anywhere near reasonable is that in order to grow your family after so many, they have to be adopted.

 

[cacturne4512]

I don't think the idea of having kids in general is selfish, but I do think that it does go down that path when you get to be those families on tv who have 8, 10, 12 even 19 kids. I think one family should have 4 kids at the most, if the children are all the parents biological children. A family could adopt more children if they want.

 

[Olli]

I'm not quite sure if I would describe it as selfish, but like alot of people stated, it would be alot better to adopt other children, so that the world population doesn't grow even more. What I'm most worried about are those people who decide to have 4+ children, and all of their children should have just as many, and they have no reason whatsoever to have all those children, and in most cases they can't even feed them, thus sending them to an orphanage, where they might not even get adopted.
I agree that people should have 2 children max.

 

[Charlie Kelly]

(*Note: When I say "you" in this post, I'm referring to either a single person, or the couple considering having the child. And by "alone" and "on your own", I mean the couple as well.)

I feel like you need to be self-aware when you decide or decide to not have children. If you have a low-paying job, or are already struggling to support yourself, then do not have children. If you can't do it on your own, then you don't need to have them. Don't get me wrong, I'm not saying it's good to raise a child without any outside help, but you shouldn't have to rely on that help.

If you already have a child, and then decide to have another down the line, you should ask yourself the same question again, "if I had to, could I handle this alone right now?" Little disgusts me more than a parent throwing adult responsibilities onto a child or teenager because they were either too stupid to realize they couldn't handle another baby, or too lazy to take care of the baby that their first child had no choice in. You were the ones who had sex and decided to have a baby, not your first child. It's not like they wanted a puppy and you got them one, and they should have to care for it.

Bringing a child into poverty and poor living conditions is 100% selfish.

 

[Kanzler]

I disagree with the way selfish is being used in this thread. I don't see how having a child can be described as "selfish" the same way as having a child and neglecting it for personal leisure can also be described as "selfish". Of course there is the element of self-interest, but then again, what's so negative about it for us to confer upon it such a negative connotation of "selfish"? We could argue that breathing is selfish, as it is done in our interest in self-preservation. On the converse, reproduction, from a biological perspective, is just the step up once one's survival needs are secured. I'm losing track of where the opinions in this thread are pointing at, because the use of "selfish" is starting to become less meaningful.

There's more to having children than simply the discussion about if and the quality of how it will be cared for. I don't see a child being born into poverty as suffering - although they are worse off than the rest of us, a life is still just as valuable, even if it doesn't come with all the bells and whistles of wealth. So it's pretty clear that I'm approaching it from a spiritual vs. a materialistic perspective. But even if we look at the material, there's not much wrong about having children in us Western countries. The majority of the population growth that may hurt the standard of living for the rest of the world (if it does) will occur in the third world - and it is whether and how quickly that the third world modernizes that will determine where our population peak ends. Canada and the United States are still growing because of 1. immigrants and 2. Hispanics who generally have larger family sizes; but again, this is pretty negligible in the face of the massive youth boom in the third world.

In assuming that the general demographic of this thread to be young Westerners, I would say that there is a lot of talk about how since having children isn't necessary, it isn't required. There is more to life than just having the same amount of whatever as the next guy over. Even if one realizes that a child may be a financial drain upon the rest of society, the parent or the child may view their relationship as something much more than that. There are people that sacrifice big dreams to settle down and have children, and there are also those who live from paycheck to paycheck, but some people don't think about the dent that a child makes in one's or someone else's paycheck. To some people, there is happiness found in having their own child that I don't think can be replaced by anything else. And I don't think any discussion about this matter should be done without acknowledging that there are other ways to look at this issue.

 

[Ineffable~]

Nice thread.

Personally it kind of bothers me when people are obsessed with genetics, for example, "it's not as real unless I have my own kid." I'm not saying a lot of people really believe that (although hell if my know what people actually believe), but I think any value a genetic child has over an adopted child is more or less nonexistent. If I'm not mistaken it's a particular part of human nature to want your offspring to look like you, but in a more advanced society we should all know that raising a child and being his/her primary caretaker and supporter for almost twenty years makes that child your son/daughter far more than having the same beautiful green eyes.

My point being, if you compare raising a child from the womb to raising an adopted child from the crib, yes technically the former is classic human selfishness, but like Toujours said, selfishness (especially this kind of selfishness) is totally universal and not at all bad on its own.

Anyway, I wish I saw more people adopting, but that's really not my business at all to get involved in other people's families.

Take it for what it's worth since I'm never raising kids anyway. /also selfish

 

[Abnegation]

Time to tip-toe around this.
I think if you have kids intentionally, you need to bring them into an environment where you're sure they're not going to have to endeavor the unnecessary oppressions harnessed upon them by the lack of stability within the household relationships. I think the worst thing you can do is bring a child into a family were the parents aren't solid. This is something I grew up in, and it's something I learned to never let happen to my kids in the future. But also in addition to that, I think it's always a good thing to consider the times we're living in. Having a child now, while running the risk of potentially hiking tax rates, fewer jobs and higher poverty, you would really need to reconsider unless you were both in a financially sound state as well as being in a good position with the person you're going to have the child with.

Everything we do is selfish, even if we're doing it for someone else, there's going to be self motivation to do it. Whether it is the feeling you get when you help that person, or to get a favour in return, we never do things completely out of the goodness of our hearts without even feeling anything in return. Forgive the awful wording here, but if someone were to undergo an abnegation where they give up something they love in the benefit of someone they love, it would still be for their own benefit, even if just a tiny bit.

When you think about children, you must also think about love. Love is also a selfish thing. Regardless of the kind. If you want someone else to feel good, that is still your desire that you want to be fulfilled, no matter how much you love that person, there is still that certain entity of selfishness included. So when having kids, regardless of the love involved, there is still going to be that layer of selfishness. But I think the term "selfishness" is usually associated with negative inputs, whereas people can be selfish in wanting the best for another person.

But in relation to the question that spoke about whether it would be a drain of resources to have a child; I honestly don't think so. Especially if you do plan on raising the child right, they're going to want him or her to do well in life, be happy and above all my point is going to be that this person will most likely contribute to society in some way, and we would hope it would be positive. So I think that most people tend to give back what they give into the world in some aspects, exempting the affect on the ozone layer and such of course.

I think holding off to have kids is the best idea. Until all factors are completely settled, and the couple have got a steady relationship going. I think that if the child is born into a supporting family with enough resources, love and know how to look fter the child, then it's not selfish. At the end of the day, having children isn't the selfish thing; it's what those children grow up to do that matters more.

 

[GFA]

It's selfish to have a bunch of kids you can't support.

My cousin has 8 kids, 5 biological ones and 3 she adopted from Russia. Her parents (my aunt and uncle) are pretty well to do people, and so is her husband (and she currently works part-time). I could call this selfish, but she can support her family, so I see no problem with it.