It's Time For Change: S&M Revival Starts NOW

[wolf]

+ A RMT Archive ? (Motivate people to post teams)

Maybe later, but now I don't think we have enough RMTs to make an archive (?). I think the stars should be enough for now. We could make a RMT archive, but that would be a lot stickies. Or add it to the Resource thread, but I don't think people would notice it much then or even care.

+ Contributor badges. We need these NOW. "If you need a badge to contribute something is wrong blah blah" no. We have people who contribute greatly, see: Wolf. These are actually deserved. My next point, REGULARS STILL ARE NOT RATING TEAMS. This would perhaps give some sort of intrinsic gain to regulars and make them want to rate teams, encourage discussion and post useful resources. It works for smogon, why wouldnt it work for us ? These are different from emblems btw which are seen as nothing special. Badges are more prestigious and would be displayed differently (maybe at the side of your name) and wouldn't be handed out so easily as emblems are.

Those would be nice but...we would probably need higher staff approval on this. There was a thread where Aura suggested badges in it, and they said they would discuss it (if I recall correctly). Not sure what the verdict was, unless it hasn't been decided yet. Could always mod them on the server, but that would be a lot mods. Also, you shouldn't say I contribute greatly until I actually finish the Speed Tiers and DW Info layout haha.

+ Id like to see

these, so mod and select members/regulars (yeah i know if everyone could use them they would be abused) can give them to good teams and threads. This will not only make the OP feel better about their team and thus encourage more teams from more people and more threads in general. Again its an intrinsic gain and another thing that works for smogon.

I don't see a problem with that, but it might not be possible to select a few members to rate teams. Though, I don't have any knowledge on vBulletin. (Also, the stars on Smogon have been replaced with Luvdisc for a long time if you didn't noticed. :x)

Also, people should post more teams instead of their "really good teams they're proud of" or whatever. Back then, I'm pretty sure regulars always posted RMTs frequently. It doesn't have to be a very well done RMT either, just your team, some descriptions, pictures, and tah-dahhh. I already convinced Oppo to post his Crobat team. ;D I was going to post my team, but now it's banned...

 

[Vrai]

I definitely agree with the contrib badges. The RMT archive sounds like a cool idea, though I'm unsure on how many RMTs will actually be allowed in there lol. :x

As far as the * thing my only concern is whether that will actually be possible, like wolf said.

 

[Anti]

We have no teams to make an RMT archive. Any purpose it could fulfill is better served by the one Smogon will make (for Gen 5) anyways, namely showing new users what a good team looks like.

The whole point of a "badge" for contributors is to show that we appreciate what contributors do. Doesn't an emblem accomplish that? I know they're meaningless but Smogon-type badges don't exist on PC...because PC isn't Smogon. Unless you're proposing that badges should be exactly like Smogon's and they will mean something (in the case of Smogon I think there's a badges members forum or something like that), then I'm curious what it would be. Just use emblems though. Just from a personal standpoint, I've contributed a ton to this forum. I don't feel the need to showcase it with some flashy copycat badge that has no purpose besides to seem important when in reality it's just an emblem with a different name.

The problem with the 5 stars thing is that there are no RMTs to 5-star, and while I get that the whole purpose is to motivate people, just as these other two measures are, I think that we're just kidding ourselves. I don't mean to be a defeatist/debbie downer/pessimist, but we've tried gimmicks to get our regulars active in the community in some way and with almost no response. While I'm not personally against rating threads (what harm is there in that?), I am against restricting it to some arbitrary "elite" group which is basically sending the message that only us great experts are truly fit to deem certain threads good or bad. While the function itself is not a big deal at all, it's the symbolism that counts. Also, why flatter the veterans with any kind of privilege? I don't think any of us have earned it, truthfully. I know it "works" (I don't know how you can really measure the success or failure of being able to 5-star threads haha) on Smogon, but on Smogon the regulars actually *gasp* post and rate teams on a regular basis. But to your general point, it would be nice for good RMTs to deserve recognition in some way.

But I think Wolf hit the nail on the head, as RMTs have become more flashy and less about actually getting help. IDK, maybe it's intimidating to post a team for HELP when regulars are posting teams that are mostly for show or to say "hey look, I used this awesome Salamence mega team to destroy the ladder!" Maybe an RMT archive would even add to that, IDK really. Either way, I think when our regulars actually post teams they generally do a good job of just getting to the point and not being too flashy. But I think that loose rules (lol as if we enforce them) with RMTs would allow for RMTs that are mostly for help. I think it would be a good idea to stress that they don't have to be works of art.

Beyond that, I don't really support any added motivation or incentive we could give our regulars to post and rate teams not because of some symbolic stance but because I think it's futile. If turning new users into new members of the community through rating their teams and helping them so that we can get active again isn't enough incentive to post more then I don't know what is. Rather, I think it would be a good idea to make resources available to everyone so that there is no fear or anything like that to post and people will feel like they CAN make mistakes and there are only positive results from rating and posting teams. I know that D_A and Wolf have flirted a bit with a team rating resource for everyone. That sounds like the most sensible approach instead of trying to woo people with some poser Smogon badge or anything like that.

(If there is a grumpy tone in this post, I apologize. I'm tired and can't be bothered to make it sound nice and flowery fresh. Sorry if it's kind of...blunt x_x)

 

[Dark Azelf]

We have no teams to make an RMT archive. Any purpose it could fulfill is better served by the one Smogon will make (for Gen 5) anyways, namely showing new users what a good team looks like.

There are quite a few to put in the archive, some of yours, mine, beachys and quite a few more good ones from the past. All are good for the archive in one way or another. Some are flashy and some arent but will be included for various reasons. I just thought it would be like "hey if i post a team I could be in that archive some day!" for newer users.

The whole point of a "badge" for contributors is to show that we appreciate what contributors do. Doesn't an emblem accomplish that? I know they're meaningless but Smogon-type badges don't exist on PC...because PC isn't Smogon. Unless you're proposing that badges should be exactly like Smogon's and they will mean something (in the case of Smogon I think there's a badges members forum or something like that), then I'm curious what it would be. Just use emblems though. Just from a personal standpoint, I've contributed a ton to this forum. I don't feel the need to showcase it with some flashy copycat badge that has no purpose besides to seem important when in reality it's just an emblem with a different name.

That is exactly why i want them. Emblems, not to be mean, are a joke. No one takes them like they mean anything. Badges would actually mean you've actually done something significant and are deserved and mean something.

The problem with the 5 stars thing is that there are no RMTs to 5-star, and while I get that the whole purpose is to motivate people, just as these other two measures are, I think that we're just kidding ourselves. I don't mean to be a defeatist/debbie downer/pessimist, but we've tried gimmicks to get our regulars active in the community in some way and with almost no response. While I'm not personally against rating threads (what harm is there in that?), I am against restricting it to some arbitrary "elite" group which is basically sending the message that only us great experts are truly fit to deem certain threads good or bad. While the function itself is not a big deal at all, it's the symbolism that counts. Also, why flatter the veterans with any kind of privilege? I don't think any of us have earned it, truthfully. I know it "works" (I don't know how you can really measure the success or failure of being able to 5-star threads haha) on Smogon, but on Smogon the regulars actually *gasp* post and rate teams on a regular basis. But to your general point, it would be nice for good RMTs to deserve recognition in some way.


Yeah thats really what i wanted to emphasize. To actually encourage teams and good discussion threads going up. As for the only reason for restriction, i dont want people to abuse it that was the reason for that lol. Though i guess we could always reverse people's 0 and 1 star rating.

But I think Wolf hit the nail on the head, as RMTs have become more flashy and less about actually getting help. IDK, maybe it's intimidating to post a team for HELP when regulars are posting teams that are mostly for show or to say "hey look, I used this awesome Salamence mega team to destroy the ladder!" Maybe an RMT archive would even add to that, IDK really. Either way, I think when our regulars actually post teams they generally do a good job of just getting to the point and not being too flashy. But I think that loose rules (lol as if we enforce them) with RMTs would allow for RMTs that are mostly for help. I think it would be a good idea to stress that they don't have to be works of art.

You're right about that. Its irritating though when your regular members don't post. :\

Beyond that, I don't really support any added motivation or incentive we could give our regulars to post and rate teams not because of some symbolic stance but because I think it's futile. If turning new users into new members of the community through rating their teams and helping them so that we can get active again isn't enough incentive to post more then I don't know what is. Rather, I think it would be a good idea to make resources available to everyone so that there is no fear or anything like that to post and people will feel like they CAN make mistakes and there are only positive results from rating and posting teams. I know that D_A and Wolf have flirted a bit with a team rating resource for everyone. That sounds like the most sensible approach instead of trying to woo people with some poser Smogon badge or anything like that.


Thats the problem. I really don't think people think of it that way or we'd be more active right ? XD

The other idea, i think would be a good thing to start is that team rating program. To you know remove the fear of rating teams for people. :/

 

[Anti]

That would be a Gen 4 archive. What good is there in that? Besides, I don't think new users being inactive is the problem. The exam time has been rough, but just a few weeks ago there were a significant amount of RMTs from new users. Once the English B&W games are released, activity will almost positively pick up as it did when D&P were released. Usually the only time new users have been reluctant to post (as far as I can tell) has been being afraid of the community itself. Hopefully our actions against that will do away with that reputation over time. But I don't really see the point of an RMT archive. I mean, there's no harm besides backlogging the stickies (I don't know if that counts as a negative), but I just don't see the point. I think recognition from the community via five starring or just *gasp* replying to the thread is enough. As for abuse of five stars, I don't see it happening. If it becomes a problem then we can disable it or moderate it in some way, but we should cross that bridge if we ever get to it.

You're not offending me by calling emblems a joke, haha. But it still does show appreciation. It's symbolic...that's the point. To me making a blatant Smogon ripoff is not only a little cheesy but just unnecessary. Emblems are indeed useless, but it's not like lack of contributions has been a problem. To be honest, the only reason I haven't done much lately is because it seems like useful things are being done by others. The stickies are going to need to be revamped soon but that's nothing I can't handle. I mean, we really do have a lot of stuff that has been contributed. I don't see it as a problem that even needs a solution. Especially one that is as forced as badging members...even though that isn't even a PC thing (which is why it's forced imo) Even so, I think that a show of appreciation emblem for contributors would be a nice touch. I know that they mean nothing, but it's the symbolism that counts...as long as we make sure it's communicated that getting the emblem is actually a nice accomplishment. We don't need to rename them/copy Smogon to show appreciation.

We need to get the team rating stuff underway. That's probably something for us to collectively iron out in stafforums.

Thats the problem. I really don't think people think of it that way or we'd be more active right ? XD

If that is in fact the problem then we need to communicate why being active in the main forum is so important. As it stands, there is no way for new users to get integrated into the community (except for the rare ones that are quite brave and will jump into the PO chat...and escape alive). The way that happened in the past was through team help in the main forum. That's how you and I got involved. That's something to communicate. I was hoping that my post earlier in this thread would cover it, the one just two posts before the one you made bumping it, but people either didn't see it or didn't care. Either way, I'm going to sticky this thread because activity has become quite an emergency and we need to get it ironed out.

 

[Dark Azelf]

So are you ok with contribution emblems and stars ?

We need to get the stickies revamp and the team rating tutoring underway though now imo. B/W cart release date is soon so there is no reason not to haha.