Lets Have A Discussion: Innovation

[davidthefat]

Ok long time no post, I honestly don't care about pokemon as much, I was just going through a "Relive old memories" period of my life for a month or 2.... But I have a suggestion from a programmer point of view. What you need for your game to get popularity is innovation. I am not talking about a new GUI or "Touchscreen" (You are using a mouse for pete's sakes...) or new "fakemon". Innovation as in gameplay, don't make it the generic pokemon RPG game, just catch all the pokemon, get all the badges, become champion, beat rival type of game. That is a NO - NO when it comes to game development, you want innovation, things that makes you stand out from the rest. I was involved in robotics for the last couple months (FIRST robotics) and one of their main goals is Innovation. I completely agree with them. You need innovation, that is why I am attempting a FULL Autonomous robot next year (Never been attempted in competition), now that is innovation. Sure 15 seconds of autonomous mode is required, but autonomous during the teleoperated period? Thats non sense is what some people will say. But **** them, you can't go forward if you don't innovate. I know I am going to get flamed on, but people, get more creative! Try RTS games, FPS shooter games, even Puzzle (like the pokemon stadium 2 minigames...) I think pokemon would translate very well into a RTS or FPS game. You have to innovate, thats how pokemon came to be (A monster in your pocket!) I see tons and tons of generic pokemon games, even the more popular ones like Raptor, Origins and all that, SORRY I say yours is just fancy looking, the gameplay is pretty dull IMHO. But Look at Pokemon Eternity, NOW thats innovative, mouse controlled pokemon, that I would LOVE to play. Now how fun would a RTS or FPS game (especially online) be?


You know what, I will get major flameage for this, modifying the Pokemon Starter Engine and just adding story and stuff to it does not make it an enjoyable game, no matter how fun the story may be, its just a drag to play another one of the copies... Try making it from scratch, yea I know why reinvent the wheel? Its not perfect, and you gain a lot of experience making it yourself... I was planning on making my own board for the robot, but that won't have enough juice to fuel the robot's needs. So I have to settle on a lower end computer board (Tons better than the best custom robot board I am able to make) Yes as a programmer, I personally don't like using engines and stuff, I rather make it from scratch my self... IDK if it just me, but I don't feel satisfied if I don't make it my self (Obviously I won't code EVERYTHING my self, I will still use libraries like OpenGL and SDL... But they are lower level) Also, I doubt 80% of said "Developers" or "Programmers" know what half the Pokemon Starter kit does... (I don't know any of that, I never even looked it up, so don't bash on me for not knowing, I don't want to find out...)


Also another note: There are some people that like the Pokemon Essential Kit saying that it helps the noobs make their own game... Well I say "Weed out the weak"... In real life, its all competition, you can't put "I used RPG Maker" for your resume or transcript, its nonsense if you want a job in the computer industry, its kiddy scripting in my book... Yes I know companies make game engines user friendly enough for the developers to make games only using scripting languages, but there needs to be people working the backend, I want to be the one that makes the back end.

Pokemon Essential Kit would sound like a good idea to some: "Its open source, anyone can contribute to it" but honestly, who actually pitched in to make it grow in functionality? May be half a dozen guys actually did something? Most other guys are just leeching off of it and being total kiddy scripts... Thats just not the open source way...

 

[thepsynergist]

You're talking to a forum mostly filled with kids... I understand that games need to have more innovations but not everyone here is good at scripting in RGSS, let alone script using the SDK of Pokemon Essentials. My game adds a worth while storyline, and, another innovation, most of the music is in .mp3 format, composed by myself. I am a one man team making a game that has 3 regions, 24 badges, an engaging storyline, and an attempt at making a Pokemon game that isn't linear. That's just me though... There are some games that are being worked on by several people. So, innovation is a difficult thing to do. But, originality is important too. Not everyone should use Kyledoves HGSS sprites, or make a duel screen. Sometimes, I'm excited to play a game that doesn't look like its on a DS emulator. Just because you have more pixels to work with, doesn't mean you can make use of every last pixel. You can make games look great using the standard Pokemon Essentials resolution. So, all in all, it takes time and effort to put into a game, which is the main reason, in my opinion, why most games never see completion.

 

[Neo-Dragon]

Wrong. I did put "I used RPG MAKER" (with 2003 on the end) on my resume for college, showed off my fan game Pokemon Protectors, and got into college to study game development because of it.
While I have expanded past RPG Maker since I've been in college, I still use it, and it is still a very valid thing to put on a resume.
I know your concept was kind of a shot at the Essentials kit, and I coded my stuff from scratch in that, having the pokemon fan game showed I understood the basics of variables, levels/scenes and the knowledge of how to make a game rather then just have an idea.

So try not to push it as fact that it's nonsense to have it on your CV.
I know from experience that employers love to see it and how you do game development as a hobbie. And even if you just event and not "script"- you are aware most engines use point and click interfaces- even Unreal Engine has a lot of premade code and you just click and link up objects to code.

 

[Rassalon]

Putting "I used RPG MAKER" on your CV would be all well and good but, lets for example if your going for a job at Tesco does the person in the Human Resources Department that reads your CV really going to care that you "Have used RPG MAKER"?

 

[davidthefat]

"Innovate, Don't Imitate" Don't pull the "They are kids cards on me" Kids are the most imaginative people in the world... They have tons of ideas... They just need the support and the push to carry out their goals... Actually come to think of it, I am a kid in the views of adults... Im 16

 

[Maruno]

Putting "I used RPG MAKER" on your CV would be all well and good but, lets for example if your going for a job at Tesco does the person in the Human Resources Department that reads your CV really going to care that you "Have used RPG MAKER"?

You're allowed to have more than one CV. Just leave off the advanced stuff when applying for the shmuck jobs like the ones at Tesco. If you leave everything on, you look overqualified to them, and they won't hire you because they just want another mook.

"Innovate, Don't Imitate" Don't pull the "They are kids cards on me" Kids are the most imaginative people in the world... They have tons of ideas... They just need the support and the push to carry out their goals...

And that's exactly why the Essentials kit exists. It allows people with a poor understanding of coding to throw together a game based on their ideas.

It's true that many of those ideas don't pan out well, and that many of the games end up being quite generic (if they're finished at all), but at least those people can make their dream game a lot more easily than doing it from scratch.

I've found the Essentials kit is a rather useful way of learning Ruby, actually. There are plenty of scripts in there, so I can see how it all works together. The more people want to change in their game, the more scripting they'll learn to do so. And since the vast majority of people are just doing this as a hobby rather than an exercise in preparation for a game developing job, I think that's as much as can be expected of them.

Don't put people down just because you like to make things from scratch and think of all this as Serious Business - most people don't. They just want a medium to put across their ideas in. Essentials may not be perfect, and the graphics (unfairly) far overshadow the technical aspects of the games, but it's a nice stepping stone into the world of game creation. I know I'd rather be introduced to variables and events, then scripting, then a game engine, rather than have an idea and be forced to learn all of that at once (starting with the hardest part).

 

[Alistair]

Well, there is one obvious thing wrong with this.

...from a programmer's point of view.

Your preaching to the wrong crowd. Most people here are designers, not programmers. Game dev can be broken down into 3 core groups: designers, programmers, and artists. Each group has a different ideology. Designers want to get their ideas out, no matter the medium. Of course, each designer has his/her own reason, but the drive to put it out is essentially the same. Now, you should know your ideology, as you clearly posted it above. If you can't see the difference between yours and everyone else's here, you are a blind fool.

Now, next time, before posting a rant, try taking in everyone's point of view.

 

[Mrchewy]

I think Maruno really summed it up quite well. While I don't think you're wrong, David, I think you are taking this in the wrong light. We're all developing games as a hobby; for some its a way to pass the time, for others its a way to channel their creativity. I can't speak for everybody, but I don't think anyone here is really taking things as seriously as you are. Does that mean that people shouldn't strive for quality and innovation? No, but it does mean that a developer's enjoyment of the game creation process should never be overtaken by pressure or expectations of quality.

 

[Yuoaman]

This is like saying a writer shouldn't use a word processor because it corrects their mistakes. Pokemon Essentials, and tools like it, allow those who have no interest in programming or art, set their vision down in game form, and let others experience it.

I would say that close to 90% of those in the forum have no interest in Game Development as a career option, so why the hell would they waste time learning a programming language? Those who are, in fact, interested in such a career, will usually be the ones who teach themselves how to code.