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6th Gen Lysandre... [SPOILERS]

aonshinzo said:
Storyline was definitely surprisingly dark....usually pokemon don't even mention the word "death" fully, and to go from that to a storyline base on the stopping of GENOCIDE is.....random. I liked Team Flare and the story in all but, I agree it seemed like they just shoved it in between the 7th and 8th gym, I wished it was expanded more. Easily the 2nd best storyline though, it just wasn't on Unova level despite how dark it was.

I also wished the characters supported more (like Gym Leaders and E4 members) I mean...a guy is threatening you with complete Genocide and nobody seems to bat an eye....
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to be honest, i hated unova, but sinnohs story was pretty good, unova had a team with no logic to it.
 
What really stood out to me more than anything is the houses that were overturned... I mean, really? With that huge explosion, those wood cabins should be blasted to pieces. But they are turned over like fallen chess pieces. That wood must be made of impenetrable super wood.
 
Guys, let's not forget we're talking about Pokemon - a game for children. While there is a strong assumption that Lysandre is dead along with some other team members, we forget about another assumption. The team disbanded and Lysandre went into hiding - they fled before the explosion occurred. While there isn't strong evidence in this, the fact that Pokemon is a children's game would support this theory.

But I would have to agree the story was dark.. Killing Pokemon 3000 years ago for the sake of his Floette ;_; But there is a happy ending, I guess - not going to spoil it! It would've been nice if the story was longer and more in depth, I just didn't feel satisfied taking down Team Flare. In my opinion, I would've liked to see more villainous acts because it barely felt like they were going to "dominate the world." I mean, come on! NPCs completely forget about them!
 
I'm sure all of you are mixing up what a good story is. Granted, this game was dark. Killing Pokemon is pretty damn messed up. However, that hardly makes it good. It was rushed, no development, no clear sense of direction (we only care about Team Flare until Lysandre makes threat Holo Caster announcement), and, simply put, it's a traditional Pokemon story. All of the characters are completely flat-especially your friends. People can think that the story is good. But you can't really say it's good because its dark alone. If you say that, then you can take a terra-bad movie like Bridge to Terrabithia and say it's good because it's happy. I digress. Story was lame, but that's normal.
 
starlite1287 said:
What really stood out to me more than anything is the houses that were overturned... I mean, really? With that huge explosion, those wood cabins should be blasted to pieces. But they are turned over like fallen chess pieces. That wood must be made of impenetrable super wood.
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What stood out to me was how pretty much nobody reacted to seeing Team Flair members out and about, even post-game.
 
I don't remember being promised eternal life...

Whether this is because I sped through the dialogue or I was playing Y version, I'm not sure.

Either way, this guy's a pretty legit villain. Too bad Team Flare themselves were complete losers.
 
SnowpointQuincy said:
The Big Explosion scene is confusing. The Machine was made to grant life, but then changed into a weapon. And it still is a weapon. Then the villain threatens to make you immortal. And then, it blows up - leaving a crater.

If Lysandre is dead, or Immortal and burried under rubble.... What is going to happen in the Sequel? Team Flare is all but gone. Like a passing Fancy, no one even cares that they were part of the team, none cares to punish former team members. "Ok, That's Over" And no one cares that it happened.

What material do they have for a follow up? Maybe a completely new villain shows up like a new Passion in Kalos.

Or, Immortal Lysandre (if that is even a thing) crawls out of the rubble for revenge.
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there are rarely sequels, the only one in a passage of time is black and white 2. all others: yellow, crystal, emerald, and platinum are all the same timeline.

Elgyem said:
I don't remember being promised eternal life...

Whether this is because I sped through the dialogue or I was playing Y version, I'm not sure.

Either way, this guy's a pretty legit villain. Too bad Team Flare themselves were complete losers.
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honestly i think the eternal life is only x because xerneas is the life pokemon
 
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@Wertcraft

Actually, time has passed in the games. The Dragon-Type E4 says she was "brought up on stories of the mighty Time and Space dragons". She was a child during the fourth generation, and is now a somewhat old woman in the sixth. While it's not clear how much time passes in between the games, it does indeed go by.
 
In X, Lysandre says he will make you immortal. When he said that, he meant to make you suffer of eternal life because there would always be evil and war in the world and all you could do is go through it and suffer.

So far Unova was the best story for me and I always have not cared for Sinnoh's story. I was really hoping that the story would blend in with running through the gyms like it did in Sinnoh.
 
Elgyem said:
I don't remember being promised eternal life...

Whether this is because I sped through the dialogue or I was playing Y version, I'm not sure.

Either way, this guy's a pretty legit villain. Too bad Team Flare themselves were complete losers.
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Xerosic redeems himself in the aftergame part.
 
wertcraft said:
there are rarely sequels, the only one in a passage of time is black and white 2. all others: yellow, crystal, emerald, and platinum are all the same timeline.


honestly i think the eternal life is only x because xerneas is the life pokemon
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Actually, every region is a sequel, and time does pass. New games always have references to previous ones. The BW2 is easier to spot, but all the games do go in a sequential order, and for that to happen, time has to progress. What they do is just not tell us how much time has passed, that ambiguity allows them to avoid plot holes common in many other series.

SnowpointQuincy said:
The Big Explosion scene is confusing. The Machine was made to grant life, but then changed into a weapon. And it still is a weapon. Then the villain threatens to make you immortal. And then, it blows up - leaving a crater.

If Lysandre is dead, or Immortal and burried under rubble.... What is going to happen in the Sequel? Team Flare is all but gone. Like a passing Fancy, no one even cares that they were part of the team, none cares to punish former team members. "Ok, That's Over" And no one cares that it happened.

What material do they have for a follow up? Maybe a completely new villain shows up like a new Passion in Kalos.

Or, Immortal Lysandre (if that is even a thing) crawls out of the rubble for revenge.
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You bring up some interesting possibilities, but then I also think you are looking too much into the plot. The machine was actually a weapon because of how it granted life, by draining the life of every pokemon. What did bother me was how that would destroy human life in the world ... but meh, killing pokemon is plain wrong anyway and I didn't care enough to dwell on it.
 
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What really confuses me is this - what the heck was with the "fashion and flair!" mantras of Team Flare members?
There's a total disconnect between the leader of the organization, the goals of the organization, and the constituent members of the organization. Team Flare members don't really talk about cleansing the world, ending warfare and strife, how much faith they have in Lysandre and his cause... All they consistently talk about is the Team Flare uniform and how stylish/cool/fashionable/radical they think they are.

Lysandre isn't a model or a pop star, he's not a fashion designer or an artist. He's some perpetually broody older man who hates the world the way it is now. He's bitter, grumpy, taciturn. So why would his organization consist of a bunch of flamboyant fashion aficionados and people wearing weird cyber goggles and green lipstick? It's just... weird. It doesn't make any sense.

You'd think members of an organization with goals like Lysandre's would all be very stern, serious, pessimistic about the way the world is now. They'd have a really diabolical and moody presence and perhaps be feared. But instead they all have hilarious flame-pouf hairstyles and nobody's afraid of them and all they do is strike poses and talk about how cool they are.
 
Yeah, I found this game to be the darkest yet... I mean, what would you do if Lysandre called you on your Holo-Caster to tell you that you're going to die? Also, around three times I saw grunts mentioning how you can join Team Flare for 5,000,000$. I thought this was silly, considering the fact that realistically there would be no reason to join them. Then, I understood when one of the grunts at Geosenge saying something like "I joined Team Flare for 5,000,000, and now I get a new life!" The 5,000,000$ was a literal ticket to safety from the end of the world. I'm pretty sure Lysandre even says "Did you come to stop me? Or to be in safety?" (I really don't remember the quotes). I mean, come on, Pokemon! Did you really need this dark of a story for a KIDS game?

All in all, Lysandre is one CREEPY dude. He invented the Holo-Caster to Peeping-Tom on trainers! He will probably be engraved as the most memorable Bad-Team-Leader-Type-Thing in my head forever.
 
Aminta said:
What really confuses me is this - what the heck was with the "fashion and flair!" mantras of Team Flare members?
There's a total disconnect between the leader of the organization, the goals of the organization, and the constituent members of the organization. Team Flare members don't really talk about cleansing the world, ending warfare and strife, how much faith they have in Lysandre and his cause... All they consistently talk about is the Team Flare uniform and how stylish/cool/fashionable/radical they think they are.

Lysandre isn't a model or a pop star, he's not a fashion designer or an artist. He's some perpetually broody older man who hates the world the way it is now. He's bitter, grumpy, taciturn. So why would his organization consist of a bunch of flamboyant fashion aficionados and people wearing weird cyber goggles and green lipstick? It's just... weird. It doesn't make any sense.

You'd think members of an organization with goals like Lysandre's would all be very stern, serious, pessimistic about the way the world is now. They'd have a really diabolical and moody presence and perhaps be feared. But instead they all have hilarious flame-pouf hairstyles and nobody's afraid of them and all they do is strike poses and talk about how cool they are.
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That is a good point. The leaders usually fit in with the team's theme somehow and Lysandre was just a jerk, nothing special about him.
 
Aminta said:
Lysandre isn't a model or a pop star, he's not a fashion designer or an artist. He's some perpetually broody older man who hates the world the way it is now. He's bitter, grumpy, taciturn. So why would his organization consist of a bunch of flamboyant fashion aficionados and people wearing weird cyber goggles and green lipstick? It's just... weird. It doesn't make any sense.
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They do mention several times that you needed to pay a $5.000.000 fee in order to join Team Flare, which I guess explains why most of their members ended up being rich jerks who only care about their appearances.
I really don't get Lysandre's "master plan". I know previous Pokemon villains had pretty insane and idiotic plans as well, but they at least made sense within the villain's own messed-up mind. Team Aqua and Magma, when it comes down to it, were just common hooligans who promoted themselves to a global threat. Yes, both their plans were very stupid and made no scientific sense, but what does one expect from a bunch of hippies who spray graffiti about the importance of sea life/ land life. Cyrus was a big sociopath with an implied abusive upbringing, so from his point of view he is actually doing the world a favour by getting rid of "the evil that is emotion".
Lysandre, on the other hand, hates the whole world for no given reason and plans to kill everyone but a select few, hoping that the survivors won't just slaughter each other like animals over the few resources left on the planet post-apocalypse. Unlike Cyrus, he doesn't have a specific plan on how to reshape the world after he destroys it (insane as such a plan would be) and unlike Archie and Maxie, he is actually implied to have some sort of academic education, which doesn't excuse how he would come up with such a flawed, fail-prone plan that totally ignores elementary rules of how society and human beings in general work.
 
MiniMinum said:
Also, around three times I saw grunts mentioning how you can join Team Flare for 5,000,000$. I thought this was silly, considering the fact that realistically there would be no reason to join them. Then, I understood when one of the grunts at Geosenge saying something like "I joined Team Flare for 5,000,000, and now I get a new life!" The 5,000,000$ was a literal ticket to safety from the end of the world.
Click to expand...
That's a very interesting perspective and one that did not occur to me while playing the game. Lysandre for all intents and purposes wanted to create a better world where everyone could live fair and equally without war. He was angry at the world and how humans and Pokémon alike were destroying it through constant battle. Clearly, he viewed it as an ugly place to be in and wanted to rid the world of this "ugly" to create a more beautiful life for people to live in.

It makes sense now why there would only be a select few who survive through Lysandre's plans and why the price to join was so costly. They were literally buying there way into a new life, a beautiful life as you so acutely pointed out. Since the price was so high and given the hoity-toity atmosphere of Kalos, it's no wonder why the grunts were so focused on their looks, feeling like they were better than others, and more superior. They knew they were the lucky few going to live to see a better world while the rest of us and Pokémon would die from their destruction. In their eyes, we were the peasants who couldn't afford the new lifestyle they dreamed to live in.

In the end, they were all a bunch of rich lunatics who deemed the world ugly and inferior and wanted to live in a world where only their high elegance and beauty existed. Lysandre was consumed by this and his followers only saw the gold at the end of the tunnel. What I would have liked to learn more of though was Lysandre's past and how he developed this kind of hatred.

It was certainly a dark story, probably the darkest, but there are ways Lysandre and Team Flare could have stuck out more throughout the storyline, something I hope can be rectified in a third version, or better yet, sequels.
 
Hey, koff~

Team Rocket killed Pokemon guys. Just cause they could. Also, I don't believe that they died. This 'ultimate weapon' did as much damage as a small crate of C-4. It sunk their base, sure, but the main character (you and your friends) didn't get caught in the blast or die. That leads me to believe that they're still alive somewhere. Also, Xerosic is still alive, koffi~
 
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