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6th Gen Lysandre... [SPOILERS]

wertcraft said:
What was your reaction on the first ever confirmed death in the pokemon franchise, where lysandre killed himself as well as all of team flare? mine was horrified by how dark it was compared to the other evil organizations ways of splitting up. this is besides the fact that his logic doesn't make sense. he would want to recreate civilization without pokemon, and to rid the world of pokemon, he calls upon the pokemon of death its self (assuming you are playing Y) to kill all the pokemon. this logic doesn't workwhen you consider the fact that after everyone is already dead, if he planned on all people living, there would be even more fighting, something he didn't want, and if he wiped everyone else except for team flare, wouldn't yvetal kill them anyway. how was he planning on getting rid of his ultimate weapon? this team is my favorite, but it has the least logic of any team i have seen.
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Well the King managed to survive...as did citizens of Kalos he spared as can be seen as people still exist...so I'm guessing Team Flare would do whatever the King did to spare themselves.

The plot of Team Flare was similar to a plot of a character in a story I'm working on...so it was interesting to see how Pokemon executed the whole kill everyone to create a better world plotline (also reinforces the idea that no matter how original one thinks one's idea is...someone somewhere is doing it...aka nothing new under the sun).

I understood where Lysandre was going with his idea...but he went about it the wrong way...taking innocent lives to stop the lost of lives seems so hypocritical...though I guess that's why they're called Team Flare...fight Fire with Fire...or Death with Death.
 
I liked him; potent character, just not handled well. The aftermath of his apparent death was handled the most poorly — there's just real no acknowledgement of him after that point. It's very odd. The whole story feels 'disconnected' in some way, actually.


Zanekin said:
The story was very shallow with the exception of AZ's story there was no character development and I'm still annoyed by them being team flare for no reason. No explanation or noticeable reason for that name. Some use fire types, but not all of them, and their mission has nothing to do with fire.
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The notion of fire (in this case the 'fire' of the weapon) being a purifying force has long been with humanity.
 
Cassino said:
I liked him; potent character, just not handled well. The aftermath of his apparent death was handled the most poorly — there's just real no acknowledgement of him after that point. It's very odd. The whole story feels 'disconnected' in some way, actually.



The notion of fire (in this case the 'fire' of the weapon) being a purifying force has long been with humanity.
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I agree...this has got to be the most 'disconnected' story thus far...I can't even think of a close second as all the others' are connected to the same degree.

I feel that after Gen V's placement of the evil plots...Lysander's plot coming before the eight gym makes him and Team Flare come off as a side thing...to just be fogotten. Even when compared to the other pre-8th gym teams from the pre-Gen V era Flare's is disconnected in location...as Team Rocket's final big plot was in Saffron, and their dissolution after fighting the 8th gym (ironically) due to defeating Giovanni, Team Magma and Aqua's take place in the home of the eight gym...thus giving one of the best reason's one can't battle a gym before defeating the evil team as the actual gym and it's city...no the whole region was on the brink of destruction...
Now Team Galactic...it's far from the eight gym sure...but their plot and story made up for it due to it's epicness.
 
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If any Pokemon character needs to be killed ... this is the one. Lysander pisses me off, willing to sacrifice pokemon for his bad idea. No, killing pokemon is worse than stealing them by so many levels.
 
Can't say I truly care about Lysandre being gone. He was literally the typical, boring bad guy with barely no motives besides "herp da derp cleansing the world of impurity" or whatever.
Not to mention everything ended waaaaaay too quickly.

I really hope (assuming there is) Pokemon Z will explain a lot more about the story and the region. The lore behind the legendary pokemon are also kind of boring and barely spoken of.
 
I'm hoping that Z is going to be a retelling of X and Y, and that a lot more will be done with Lysandre, since I found him kind of interesting, full of potential, and dare I say it, sort of likable. Yet as much as I like him, I do strongly believe that what Lysandre wanted to do was wrong.
 
I wish they had explained Lysandre's reasons with a little more detail, we basically didn't witness any scarring memory or experience that made him believe in his extreme ideals. But all we get is AZ's story about his traumatic experience, which incidentally could have been avoided since he was the king that time (who would honestly send a small Florette to a full scale pokemon war?)
 
I admire the approach Game Freak took here, but I felt that Team Flare, primarily in appearance, did not completely personify "darkness". One might think that the juxtaposition between the character of Team Flare and the story might elicit an unsettling feeling, but for me the the effort just came off goofy--as a missed opportunity. Too the philosophy they aimed to present felt lost because the characters did not completely embody their goals nor was the world in which you, the gamer, played effected in any way by actions taken and not taken. The game gives you opportunities to make choices, but no matter what choice you make the game still makes the correct decisions in virtue of story progression.

The story is certainly better and more memorable, at least for me, but it could have been something more.
 
trying to remove pokemon from the world?

Sounds like peta lol
 
Jimmyray said:
I never actually noticed a direct implication of death to anyone, but even if it's true, hasn't death been a theme since day 1? Remember Cubone's mother and the graveyard etc.? And the first movie when Mewtwo escapes the lab?
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by this i meant human death, and I'm referring to the games, not the anime.
 
Storyline was definitely surprisingly dark....usually pokemon don't even mention the word "death" fully, and to go from that to a storyline base on the stopping of GENOCIDE is.....random. I liked Team Flare and the story in all but, I agree it seemed like they just shoved it in between the 7th and 8th gym, I wished it was expanded more. Easily the 2nd best storyline though, it just wasn't on Unova level despite how dark it was.

I also wished the characters supported more (like Gym Leaders and E4 members) I mean...a guy is threatening you with complete Genocide and nobody seems to bat an eye....
 
Well, with the exception of black and white(2), most Pokemon games reach the peak of their story between the 7th and 8th gyms.
 
unicorn said:
i was so confused about it... but what concerned me even more was how nobody seemed to really care?

when we all left his secret base there was like one person outside all of those flipped houses and the huge gaping hole and all he had to say was
"haha! we might have just had a bunch of rocks before but now we have a huge ol' hole!"

?!?!?!??!

where are all the concerned adults and police and firemen and grieving families i dONT UNDERSTAND
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yeah i know right, makes more sense where its undercover, but this was in a town, and afterwards, the map pohoto of the town doesn't update, or the description
 
I thought he was an okay as a villain. It probably helps that I imagined him being voiced
by Patrick Seitz.
 
*Icecold* said:
Hold on a second, I couldn't remember/fully interpret what happened at the end of the game. Unicorn, I agree, he did die.

I finally remember now! The explosion of the ultimate machine took the secret base with it, so Shauna, Calem/Serena and the player have to run out just in time before it collapses. Everyone else inside dies.



But anyways, the worst thing about the death of Team Flare is that nobody gives a crap. Sycamore is just like "so sorry about Lysandre's behavior" like he's his babysitter or something. Everyone else is just happy they're gone. I don't care if they were trying to destroy the world! A lot of people knew that their goal wasn't all bad, it's just what they were doing wasn't right! And Lysandre even learned his lesson at the end!

THE ENTIRE KALOS POPULATION IS MADE UP OF COLDHEARTED FREAKS!
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So that's what he meant about a beautiful world. AND THE WORKER JUST LAUGHS ABOUT IT. What a d*****.
 
The Big Explosion scene is confusing. The Machine was made to grant life, but then changed into a weapon. And it still is a weapon. Then the villain threatens to make you immortal. And then, it blows up - leaving a crater.

If Lysandre is dead, or Immortal and burried under rubble.... What is going to happen in the Sequel? Team Flare is all but gone. Like a passing Fancy, no one even cares that they were part of the team, none cares to punish former team members. "Ok, That's Over" And no one cares that it happened.

What material do they have for a follow up? Maybe a completely new villain shows up like a new Passion in Kalos.

Or, Immortal Lysandre (if that is even a thing) crawls out of the rubble for revenge.
 
I just hated that the legendary was just there... There was no fight in "protecting" the legendary from its original place of rest, and honestly.... All the characters in the story including the player in general just seemed so naive & oblivious to what lysandre was going to do. Besides that this game is one of my favorites :D
 
SnowpointQuincy said:
The Big Explosion scene is confusing. The Machine was made to grant life, but then changed into a weapon. And it still is a weapon. Then the villain threatens to make you immortal. And then, it blows up - leaving a crater.

If Lysandre is dead, or Immortal and burried under rubble.... What is going to happen in the Sequel? Team Flare is all but gone. Like a passing Fancy, no one even cares that they were part of the team, none cares to punish former team members. "Ok, That's Over" And no one cares that it happened.

What material do they have for a follow up? Maybe a completely new villain shows up like a new Passion in Kalos.

Or, Immortal Lysandre (if that is even a thing) crawls out of the rubble for revenge.
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My theory is that malva will lead a rebellion to revive team flare. Although hints point to something completely new in z.( if that is what it is called if it is taking place in a new region.)
 
There's no Immortality in Y though...just genocide...
In Z they'll proably aim to kill everyone but make themselves immortal...combining both parts.
I liked Lysander...but he should stay dead...or immortal under rubble...as it fits with the mortif of death and life.
 
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