Most evil team?

[Rapture11]

Team Galactic or Team Flare I would say.

 

[Tek]

More valid points have been brought up indeed, But I still say that if what you are doing is for the greater "good" in your view then it can't be called true evil. Most of the leaders seen a problem with the way things were and set about plans to change that. They are just trying to be helpful in their own sick and twisted way.

But if all you want to do is steal, injure, and enslave pokemon, then that my friend, is true evil in my opinion.

I think I get your earlier post a little better, you're saying bad things done accidentally or misguidedly aren't evil? That's an interesting view. My opinion is that intentional evil and unintentional evil are both evil. The difference being that unintentional evil appears evil from outside, but not from within.

And it's really hard for me to say which is worse. Some of the most terrible things in human history have come about from the best of intentions. You mentioned Hitler, there are also the Crusades, and even in recent American history there are the eugenics programs done in the 60's to take teenagers considered to be dumb or sickly out of the gene pool (without their knowledge or consent). And on the side of purposeful evil there is the Boston Marathon bombing, 9/11, and the OK City bombing... And those are just "local" terrorist strikes. People the world over have been affected by this brand of malice.

I've heard it said that a war fought over principles will result in mutual annihilation if it ever ends at all, but a war fought over resources does less damage; both parties in a resource war must be careful not to destroy the thing they are fighting over.

 

[Ghost Lunis]

I think I get your earlier post a little better, you're saying bad things done accidentally or misguidedly aren't evil? That's an interesting view. My opinion is that intentional evil and unintentional evil are both evil. The difference being that unintentional evil appears evil from outside, but not from within.

And it's really hard for me to say which is worse. Some of the most terrible things in human history have come about from the best of intentions. You mentioned Hitler, there are also the Crusades, and even in recent American history there are the eugenics programs done in the 60's to take teenagers considered to be dumb or sickly out of the gene pool (without their knowledge or consent). And on the side of purposeful evil there is the Boston Marathon bombing, 9/11, and the OK City bombing... And those are just "local" terrorist strikes. People the world over have been affected by this brand of malice.

I've heard it said that a war fought over principles will result in mutual annihilation if it ever ends at all, but a war fought over resources does less damage; both parties in a resource war must be careful not to destroy the thing they are fighting over.

I try my hardest to not be judgmental so I personally can't consider what someone does in the name of the greater good as evil. But if someone is open about their "evil" intentions, then I'm not judging only repeating their own feelings. Someone like Giovanni knows full well that he is a criminal. That is evil/evil where the both parties can agree in the evil intentuons. But for the other team leaders it's good/evil. They view themselves as heroes and everyone sees them as villians. So if we call them evil, we ourselves are not any better because we are judging them. And while I'm not religious, many people I know are and I assume they know that judging is a sin. And sins are "evil".

And yes, principle wars are never a good thing. Both sides feel they are right and those never end because they are long standing traditions and ideas that have been bred into each individual person.

One word that I think can be used to describe all of the team members besides Giovanni is "misguided". Their hearts were usually in the right place, just the means to those ends are often extreme. Much like the real word issues you mentioned.
A good real life example that comes to mind is America. I am American first and foremost bust the political system is nothing but a bunch of bullies. The American warmongers feel it is in the best interest of the world for democracy to spread and we go to extreme measures to enforce that ideal. Patriots don't consider this as evil but those foreign countries do I'm sure. It's never right to violently force your ideals but it's not evil. Not right does not equal evil. All that means is that America (and the in game bad guy leaders) are bullies, not some evil entity brought into this world for pure destruction and choas.

Taken from wikipedia... "Evil, in its most general context, is taken as the absence of that which is ascribed as being good"
Good intentions are strewn all about the other leaders cree, except Giovanni who only wishes to commit criminal acts.

I really hope I explained this well and responded well to your post. When I have a long train of though, it's very very hard to keep it from derailing.

 

[RoreyG]

Let's go down the list.

I agree with Dansparce in that Teams Aqua and Magma are pretty much a big joke. They're a bunch of radical environmentalists with no sense of reality. Honestly people, it doesn't take a Rocket Scientist (see what I dd there) to know that if you turn the planet into either a barren wasteland or a waterworld that it would cause the extinction of almost all living beings. Archie and Maxie were morons and their Admins and Grunts were fools for following them.

Team Galactic seem threatening at first, but Cyrus just wound up being a self righteous, egotistical, lunatic who didn't actually think his plan through. Say he succeeded in destroying the world and remaking it in his ideal image. How are you going to rule? more so, how do you and your small band of followers expect to survive and thrive? You've basically wiped out every skilled professional from the face of the earth and there would be no real order or infrastructure. I reason that it would be a pain in the ass to get anything done. Cyrus would seem incompetent, there would be discord and later anarchy. Eventually, they would all just die off anyway.

Team Plasma under Ghetsis is probably the second most evil organization. I agree with Dansparce again in that regard. Ghetsis had manipulated a child and made him the figure-head of a group of people who thought they were doing the right thing. He also nearly succeeded his goal. The problem lies again with Ghetsis' short sightedness. What happens after you become the most powerful person in Unova? My guess is that he'd probably end up like Scar in Lion King; a bored, egotistical douchebag.

Team Flare pretty much fall under the same bracket as those previously mentioned. Not even worth it if it wasn't for how charismatic Lysandre was.



Team Rocket under Giovanni is the most evil and effective team in Pokemon for the following reasons:

1. Giovanni. He is intelligent, ruthless, powerful; he's the badass amongst evil bosses and he keeps everything together. He's the Pokemon version of Tony Soprano.

2. They are smart. Instead of having the convoluted and cliched plan to destroy the world, the hierarchy of Team Rocket knows that true power lies in controlling the socioeconomic system of a country. They essentially control the socioeconomic hub of Kanto, Celedon City, thereby controlling Kanto's economy and stability and by extension, its' populace. Added to that, Giovanni has placed himself in the inner circle of Kanto's state authority. He's a Gym Leader, an essential part of the Pokemon League thereby putting him in the know and a couple of steps ahead of the law enforcement looking to stop Team Rocket.

3. They have a realistic endgame that they actually succeed in; making a profit. As I've said, they control the economy of Kanto. They also have a monopoly in the market for rare and valuable items. The illegality and cruelty surrounding how they obtain these items make them even more valuable and that makes Team Rocket even more wealthy.

4. The Grunts. the Grunts of every other team are essentially misguided fools. Rocket Grunts, on the other hand, exemplify what is means to be the most evil and despicable beings on the planet. They do evil; steal other trainers Pokemon, mutilate Slopokes, kill Cubones for their skulls and a slew of other deeds all in the name of profit and power. As if that wasn't bad enough, they also admit to their evil deeds and take pleasure in them.

 

[Sydian]

I just wanted to come in and say that I'm really excited that this turned into such a great in-depth discussion, and everyone has been so mindful and respective of others. It's awesome and makes me really happy to have such awesome posters in my forum! Sorry for the mush moment, but this thread really makes me happy, even though it's about evil teams haha.

Anyway, I wanted to come back and say that taking this into account:

I'm not familiar with the villains of Sinnoh or Kalos, but I have to disagree that Team Rocket is the worst. They know that they're villains; they're evil, but not psychotic. Magma, Aqua, and Plasma - they think they're the good guys. You can't reason with someone like that, and I find that much more terrifying.

This is an excellent point. It's like trying to reason with someone in the Westboro Baptist Church, and when I think of it that way, it really is terrifying.

 

[Tek]

Not right does not equal evil.

Hm now there's something... varying definitions of the term evil. It's like trying to have a conversation about God - what I understand God to be may not be the same thing that you understand it to be.

I really hope I explained this well and responded well to your post. When I have a long train of though, it's very very hard to keep it from derailing.

Yeah I think I follow you. I don't necessarily agree with everything but that's okay... If everyone agreed with me I'd never question my assumptions!

I can see the virtue of being non-judgemental, but I also think that judgements can be necessary and appropriate.

And I am a patriot for sure, but you can't legislate morality, which is part of the reason the war in the Middle East was not the smooth ride the our military leaders expected. You can give Nazis the Internet, but it doesn't make them into world-class people. It just gives them a wonderful tool to spread their hate. This might be a bit off-topic tho haha.

Let's go down the list.

I agree with Dansparce in that Teams Aqua and Magma are pretty much a big joke. They're a bunch of radical environmentalists with no sense of reality. Honestly people, it doesn't take a Rocket Scientist (see what I dd there) to know that if you turn the planet into either a barren wasteland or a waterworld that it would cause the extinction of almost all living beings. Chuck and Maxie were morons and their Admins and Grunts were fools for following them.

Heh yeah that wasn't a resource war or a principle war really, more like a spaz war. And then they're like 'Oh crap, that was really dumb!'

2. They are smart. Instead of having the convoluted and cliched plan to destroy the world, the hierarchy of Team Rocket knows that true power lies in controlling the socioeconomic system of a country. They essentially control the socioeconomic hub of Kanto, Celedon City, thereby controlling Kanto's economy and stability and by extension, its' populace. Added to that, Giovanni has placed himself in the inner circle of Kanto's state authority. He's a Gym Leader, an essential part of the Pokemon League thereby putting him in the know and a couple of steps ahead of the law enforcement looking to stop Team Rocket.

I never really considered the strategy of Team Rocket's plans. It's the same story in G/S/C too, they targeted the major communications array in Johto and the rail line connecting Johto and Kanto. This was done without Giovanni's instruction, and the Rocket who shut down Kanto's power plant was acting independently of the rest of the organization!

 

[RoreyG]

I never really considered the strategy of Team Rocket's plans. It's the same story in G/S/C too, they targeted the major communications array in Johto and the rail line connecting Johto and Kanto. This was done without Giovanni's instruction, and the Rocket who shut down Kanto's power plant was acting independently of the rest of the organization!

My point exactly. People think that Team Rocket is a non entity just because they didn't have some grandiose plot to bring about global annihilation. The fact is that they're way smarter than they get credit for.

 

[Drayton]

Rocket isn't pure evil and it's just taking over. So I vote for Galatic and Flare as they plan to wipe out and claim the planet themself. Also Plasma v2 have this purpose