Music help

[majorgames]

ok i didnt know where to put this so i put this where i think it fits, please tell me if these questions are in the wrong place and where i should re post them


ok so im in the middle of a project and i want to make my own music. im really rubish at making music sound good however

so i need several things

1. Whats the HG/SS sound front (ie what instruments are used) [Answered]

2. Do you have any tips at making music sound good, (ie any general rules and where when, how and how often the particular instruments play, tips?) [HIGH PRIORITY]

3. what program should i use [Answered]

4. How do the rules and guid lines change for different places, different battles and different situations) [HIGH PRIORITY]

it may sound alot but i would be thankfull if you could help



also a minor question* im not sure how to make music loop only in certain places do you know a way to make music files loop so the intro plays and then the main song to the end plays over and over and the intro dosent play untill say you get into another battle or go to a different area (like you would edit pictures to make them transparrent or animate). [Low priority]





*by minor question it means i found a way arround it but ild perfer a better sollution as my way around it is very impractical

 

[infinity+1]

tbh it takes a while to pick up but I would suggest flstudio as a good program, it has decent built in synths that would get you started.

 

[thepsynergist]

If you want to make your own midis: Anvil Studio.
If you want to make your own mp3s: FL Studio.

There are several videos on youtube that can help you make good music in FL.

Btw, what kind of music genre are you working with? Metal, orchestration?

 

[Great Mazinger]

The program VGMTrans can be used to extract the instrument banks from DS games in the form of DLS (Downloadable Sounds) files, which can be used within FL Studio as instruments. It can also rip MIDI files from the same games as well. Also there's probably some script available somewhere which allows for the ability to set loop points within a track (it can be done as standard in RPG Maker VX by adding a couple of lines to the metadata of an .ogg file, but this functionality doesn't work in XP, unfortunately)

 

[majorgames]

tbh it takes a while to pick up but I would suggest flstudio as a good program, it has decent built in synths that would get you started.

FL studio makes you pay to save and other funtions, ild like a studio that atlest lets my save as many music files as i want and use as many instruments i want (even if i have to download em) without paying.

If you want to make your own midis: Anvil Studio.
If you want to make your own mp3s: FL Studio.

There are several videos on youtube that can help you make good music in FL.

Btw, what kind of music genre are you working with? Metal, orchestration?

ive got anvil the reason why i posted that question is to see if there were any better ones, plus i think that RPG maker XP works with Mp3 and midi so i dont think the format really matters

i want to make music in the style of pokemon HG/SS so i think rock/metalish

The program VGMTrans can be used to extract the instrument banks from DS games in the form of DLS (Downloadable Sounds) files, which can be used within FL Studio as instruments. It can also rip MIDI files from the same games as well. Also there's probably some script available somewhere which allows for the ability to set loop points within a track (it can be done as standard in RPG Maker VX by adding a couple of lines to the metadata of an .ogg file, but this functionality doesn't work in XP, unfortunately)

that sounds good. so i assume it extracts music from roms rather than a list, and does it tell you the name of all the instruments, unfortunately im deffinitly not gunna use FL because it needs the full version to save. im probally gunna use anvil because someone here suggested it and ive heard all good reviews about it. is there a version that works with anvil maby

and about the script dont worry about it, its not a big problem as i said ive got a way around it which is have the intro and main song as separate files, on map the intro plays then it acts as if the battles just started by the time the intros finished and imediately plays the main song bit, however i can only do that with trainer battles (boss trainers included) and legendary wild pokemon, and with generic trainers and evil organisations the intros have to be short otherwise it will look kinda ameturish.

 

[thepsynergist]

Actually the format matters very much in terms of sound quality. Midi's, to me, are more like digital sheet music than actual music files. Mp3's are more like a final rendered product, but whatever works for you.

 

[Great Mazinger]

You'll have to identify the instruments by ear if you want to work with the HG/SS instrument bank, as Gamefreak didn't arrange the instruments to match the normal MIDI instrument numbers (oddly enough, they did in Diamond and Pearl)

Also I'm pretty sure think the free program Synthfont can play MIDIs using instruments from DLS files (As well as other formats, such as SF2 soundfont files)

 

[majorgames]

Update 17/05/2010 18:54 (GMT)

ok quick update

ive switched to FL because i found that i can save but so aslong as i make the song in 1 go (which ive also found a way around)

to help with my questions about when some instruments are used (I.e wild battle, gymleader battle, routes, towns, encounters) and how to use theme effectivally so they sound good and realistic, ive compiled the list of the instruments in the soundfont i recieved

Acoustic Grand
Electric Grand
Nice Piano
Electric Piano 1 (Po
Electric Piano 1
Vibraphone
Marimba
Xylophone
Tubular Bells
Glockenspiel
Music Box
Drawbar Organ
Rock Organ
Accordion
Nylon String Guitar
Steel String Guitar
Overdriven Guitar
Distortion Guitar
Finger Bass
Acoustic Bass
Fretless Bass
Slap Bass 1
Synth Bass 1
String Ensemble
Violin
Viola
Pizzicatto Strings
Orchestral Harp
Timpani
Trumpet
Trombone
Tuba
French Horn
English Horn
Clarinet
Flute
Basoon
Orchestra Hit
Clavinet
Percussion
Japanese Percussion
Jazz Guitar
Koto
Wind
Beach
Polysynth
Water Bubble
Piccolo
Reverse Cymbal
Percursive Organ
Sawtooth
Melodic Wind
Slap Bass 2
Synth Bass 2
Choir Aahs

(Just out of intrest these 2 were also sent, but they are effectivally useless)

Unnamed Instrument - Blank, nothing plays no matter which note i hit
High Frequency Noise - Crashes the computor when ever a note from this instrument is played

 

[Birdybot]

Hm, this is kinda useful stuff here. Anyway, your question on how to make music sound good is a really tough one to answer. It's probably best if you have been playing an instrument and doing thoery work for a while, since there are an awful lot rules to making really proper stuff. How much knowledge of music do you have?

 

[infinity+1]

Honestly I wouldn't have wasted my time downloading the instruments you downloaded, i had some of them in the past and they are useless.You can probably get a better sound in flstudios sytrus to incorporate all those different instruments, unless you want something more advanced.

You should also look up on how to eq, you'll need that for whatever sort of music your doing.

But if you do want to take a more advanced approach i'd recommend z3ta+ plugin though its got a bit of a learning surve and cpu intensive.

 

[thepsynergist]

Yeah, i've been making music on youtube for about 3 years now, so if you want a good idea about how music flows together nicely, check out my more recent videos.

Youtube Username: thepsynergist

 

[majorgames]

Hm, this is kinda useful stuff here. Anyway, your question on how to make music sound good is a really tough one to answer. It's probably best if you have been playing an instrument and doing thoery work for a while, since there are an awful lot rules to making really proper stuff. How much knowledge of music do you have?

Little to None :L. thats actually one of the main reasons why i want to learn, i want to learn Digital music rather than ordinary playing a guitar in a band sort of music, the main reason why i want to compose my own music for this game is i want to feel like ive made as much as i can i want to atleast have a bash before saying i need someone to make it for me.

Honestly I wouldn't have wasted my time downloading the instruments you downloaded, i had some of them in the past and they are useless.You can probably get a better sound in flstudios sytrus to incorporate all those different instruments, unless you want something more advanced.

You should also look up on how to eq, you'll need that for whatever sort of music your doing.

But if you do want to take a more advanced approach i'd recommend z3ta+ plugin though its got a bit of a learning surve and cpu intensive.

The thing is i already downloaded them, and i dont think instruments are useless unless you use them in the wrong places, like an orchestra might not work well in a fast paced action game, but might do in say a historical based game or a big adventure game.

these instruments i downloaded, i played about with them a bit and noticed that some of theme did sound familar from HG/SS but only 1 of them i could say where, which was the steel string i think it was called, correct me if im wrong but isnt that the instrument that plays during a major battle like a gymleader or team rocket (evil organisation to be more generic).

whats the eq, your talking about anyway

and im probally not going to take the advance approch straight away anyway im actually pretty happy with the instruments.

Yeah, i've been making music on youtube for about 3 years now, so if you want a good idea about how music flows together nicely, check out my more recent videos.

Youtube Username: thepsynergist

i will, thanks

 

[infinity+1]

Naw I dont mean that what they emulate is useless, i just mean they have crappy sounds compaired to other vst's. The example i gave you the styrus is built into flstudio, it does strings, bass and loads of different instruments and sounds far better than soume of those free vst's. It has more options to customise the sound so when you get a little better you can have greater control over what comes out of the vst.. but in saying that if your happy with what you getting out of those vst's then use them.

Eqing.. well you'll need to do that unless you plan on making terrible music, it is useful to stop sounds clashing, and muddying up the mix but get comfortable with what you have first.. flstudio has a decent eq built into it

 

[Birdybot]

Well, it's kinda hard trying to explain stuff to people with no experience... incredibly hard, in fact. To make it flow, try to keep the intervals between notes relatively small, limiting the jumps. Of course, there are a gabillion different ways to affect the music. Soft, staccato notes might sound quite creepy if you have it in a minor key, and maybe a few dischords to create suspense, that sort of thing... there's lots, too many to explain.

 

[Great Mazinger]

An EQ (Equaliser) is a key component in mastering songs as it lets you the fine-tune the sound of the frequencies within a track to make it sound fuller & nicer as well as fixing problems, such as making the lower end of a bass track louder to emphasize the, well, bass sound or conversely, reducing the level of the low end in case it ends up too loud and distorts the song.

For example, compare this track with a version without any EQ applied.

 

[majorgames]

Naw I dont mean that what they emulate is useless, i just mean they have crappy sounds compaired to other vst's. The example i gave you the styrus is built into flstudio, it does strings, bass and loads of different instruments and sounds far better than soume of those free vst's. It has more options to customise the sound so when you get a little better you can have greater control over what comes out of the vst.. but in saying that if your happy with what you getting out of those vst's then use them.

Eqing.. well you'll need to do that unless you plan on making terrible music, it is useful to stop sounds clashing, and muddying up the mix but get comfortable with what you have first.. flstudio has a decent eq built into it

Yes i agree, i didnt know what eq stood or even was for untill someone else told me and i looked on youtube, ive noticed a paturn of notes in the background of alot of game OSTs especially pokemon and the battles. i can imagine it would sound terrible without eq. infact the video i saw on youtube explained about using the eq on fl.

Well, it's kinda hard trying to explain stuff to people with no experience... incredibly hard, in fact. To make it flow, try to keep the intervals between notes relatively small, limiting the jumps. Of course, there are a gabillion different ways to affect the music. Soft, staccato notes might sound quite creepy if you have it in a minor key, and maybe a few dischords to create suspense, that sort of thing... there's lots, too many to explain.

THANK YOU, these were the kinds of tips ive been looking for. when i say tips i just mean general tips that make a huge difference, this goes with the eq me and infinity have been talking about earlier. this tip i thinks quiet usefull because i recon the creepy atmosphear will suit one of my new pokemon, like with giratinas theme in Platinum i suppose.

An EQ (Equaliser) is a key component in mastering songs as it lets you the fine-tune the sound of the frequencies within a track to make it sound fuller & nicer as well as fixing problems, such as making the lower end of a bass track louder to emphasize the, well, bass sound or conversely, reducing the level of the low end in case it ends up too loud and distorts the song.

For example, compare this track with a version without any EQ applied.

i couldnt download them, not only would the link not load but i dont have quick time either so i wouldnt be able to play them.

but i did watch a youtube video which told me what eq was, how to apply it in fl and compared 2 parts of a song with it, and i agree. as i said earlier on in this post in alot of game music most notably pokemon with battle themes, theres often instruments following a specific paturn of notes in the background (most of the time drums, symbals and other similar instruments), i think it would sound terrible if the the instruments were all playing at the same volume.

 

[majorgames]

Update 22/05/2010 12:45 GMT

well i cant say i tryed, i gave it another bash, and the intro just sounded...eigh?... it just wasnt good no matter how much i tryed so i guess im going to have to hand it over to someone else.

ok i think now im entering territory that probally can go here, but im not sure, so give me a heads up if it doesnt go here

i havent decieded how big i want my music team to be yet, but what i want to do is arrange it so 1 person works on several pieces that fits in certain cattegorys, for example, i might have someone work on all the battle themes, while i have another person work on all the route themes.

again i havent worked out how big the teams going to be, but the reason i want it to be this way is so the music sounds consistant

edit : heres the team recruitment thing, mine is post #221 https://www.pokecommunity.com/showthread.php?p=5819892#post5819892