My Improvements to HM's so people will actually want to use them.

[Myles]

Drill Peck and Sky Attack wants a word with you... :P
Then later, we got Aeroblast... and after that tons of damaging moves. Nah, Fly ain't that useful, bro. If I want a charging attack, I'll choose Sky Attack D:

Sky Attack? Really? That move's terrible...

So? They are now, so now we can get rid of HMs.

So?

 

[Trap-Eds]

In Gen III, Surf didn't hit your partner in double battles. In Gen IV, it does. :cer_confused: So, since Surf is the only HM I keep on my main water type, I would fix it so in Gen IV it doesn't hit your partner.

 

[SCV058]

Overall, I think that Pokemon should have an "Ability slot" or something that allowed them to learn two HM's as well as the two Tm's. To balance things, the HM slot thing could only be used outside of battle and the main four could be used in battle. if the player wants to use an HM in battle, then they can learn the move in the main four slots.

I agree wholeheartedly with the above

 

[Elite Overlord LeSabre™]

Cut and Strength, unless they receive a MAJOR power boost, will always be overshadowed by Body Slam and Return.

With the Special/Physical split in 4th gen, and with Surf now hitting allies, Waterfall finally has a niche.

Surf still rules in single battles. But its effect in doubles is why you see more Hydro Pump nowadays.

For Rock Smash, give it either priority or 100% Defense reduction, not both.

Rock Climb: We have two damaging Normal-type HM moves already. Why do we need a third?

Fly just isn't that good. I'd rather use even something like Wing Attack (60 power, 100% Accuracy over two turns still pwns it)

Whirlpool suffers from "trapping moves have abysmal Accuracy".

Dive is like a Water-type Fly, which means it fails in similar fashion.

Flash and Defog just plain fail.

 

[Myles]

Ehem. What does Fly do? It requires a charge turn (with a "semi-invulnerable" status), and has 70 base power with a 95% chance to hit.

What does Sky Attack do? It does require a charge turn w/o the chance to avoid being hit, but in return it has 140 base power with a 10% chance to flinch, enchanced critical hit ratio, with a 90% chance to hit.
Terrible? Fly is way worse, hands down.
Sku

That's not fair on Fly, you compared Gen I Fly with Gen IV Sky Attack. Besides leaving yourself wide open for a turn, before the attack, is just asking to be KO'd before you can even use it.

 

[Charmageddon]

To add on to the Fly thing, people call it a semi-invulnerable turn, but it is pretty much invulnerable. Only the weak and rarely seen Gust and Twister can affect you when you're up high.

So?

What do you mean "so?"? So we can get rid of HMs no. Despite your point being valid in Gen I, it is no longer. That was my point. "So?" is not an answer.

 

[Myles]

What do you mean "so?"? So we can get rid of HMs no. Despite your point being valid in Gen I, it is no longer. That was my point. "So?" is not an answer.

What I mean is, I never said HMs couldn't be removed. Peopl are always just like "Why do they even have HMs." So I as just saying. :P

 

[Ayselipera]

Ehh I would still change your improved Flash and Rock smash. What you did still doesn't make me want to use them. :o

 

[Opposite Day]

That's not fair on Fly, you compared Gen I Fly with Gen IV Sky Attack. Besides leaving yourself wide open for a turn, before the attack, is just asking to be KO'd before you can even use it.

Aight. Sky Attack does NOT have a 10% chance to flinch, it has a 9,8% chance to flinch. Done. Using Fly imo is like OMGZ THUNDER ME PLEASE, or like "Oh man it's so totally obvious which move I'm going to use, I hope you are not switching to something like a rock or electric-type because that would totally pwn me".
When using Sky Attack you are actually hurting something (not that I'm planning to use it anytime soon though)

tl;dr - Fly sucks. Even with 90 Base Power.

And yes Charm, Thunder does hit through Fly, I learned that lesson against Red's Pikachu when I still was a noob in old Gold and used Fly against him w/ my Ho-Oh. Since that day, I've yet to use it but for transport, and that's it.