My Somewhat defensive team

[sims796]

Slowking@Leftovers
Nature:Modest
Nasty Plot/Calm Mind
Surf
Ice Beam
Slack Off
EV:212 HP, 40 Def 252 Sp.Atk
I really wanted to try out a Slowking, and it does very good damage. Slow, however, but still hits hard.


Leafeon@Leftovers
Nature:Impish
Leaf Blade
Protect
Wish
Roar
EV:252 HP, 20 Atk, 232 Def

Well, he has been doing very well thus far. He hits very hard, and he is very defensive at the same time. Wish Passing and Protect Scouting is ever so useful.


Snorlax@Leftovers
Nature:Careful
Rest
SleepTalk
Body Slam
Crunch/EQ
EV:244 HP, 20 Def, 236 Sp.Def

So far, so good. He has blocked so many potential sweepers, including gengar, Magnezone, etc.

Lucario@Life Orb
Nature:Adamant
Swords Dance
Close Combat
X Speed
Crunch
EV:252 Atk, 252 Spe,6 Def

Standard Luke. Getting pretty hard to use it lately.


Vileplume@Black Sludge
Nature:Calm
Aromatherapy
Sludge Bomb
Sleep Powder
Leech Seed
EV: 244 HP, 142 Sp.Def, 52 Sp.Atk, 36 Def

Yeah.

Gyarados@Leftovers
Nature:Adamant
Waterfall
Stone Edge/IceFang
Dragon Dance
Taunt
EV:216 HP, 16 Atk, 132 Def, 144 Spe.

He is meant to block certain pokes that my team can't handle, like Weavile, etc. HE hits those pokes back pretty hard, at that. I might swap her out. I would love to use a status user, and most likely a ghost, such as Dusknoir.


So my team hasn't changed much, but I would like some help on it. As I said, I will probably swap out Gya with Dusknoir, or even Weezing. Yeah, most likely Weezing. I feel status would definately help this team out much, since it is somewhat stally.

 

[.]

I'd stick with NP on Slowking. Without it, Slowbro sort of outclasses it, since it learns CM as well.

Pretty good team, overall. Not many glaring weaknesses. However, foe Salamences cause a problem, especially the LO Outrage versions.

 

[sims796]

No, not for Platinum yet, so I didn't really consider that. Sorry, I forgot to mention.

But thanks. My teams usually start off without any major weaknesses, but in practice, lacks the "oomph" to really hurt, so Slowking should be a change in pace.

I might have this thread locked early on, cause then I get tons of horrid rates. But thanks for the rate, since I never take the time to look at the weaknesses.

 

[.]

If you're not using Platinum, then Salamence is less of a problem. Gyara can come in on it's DD, and (if you use Ice Fang) OHKO it.

 

[sims796]

There is a good chance that I might use Ice Fang over Stone Edge, in order to better beat Dragons in one shot.

Water/Ice....what type does that NOT hit?

 

[.]

Empoleon, who is an ass anyway. It also doesn't hit pure water types (Vaporeon, who walls you anyway)

 

[sims796]

Oh yeah, that's right, pure waters. I have three pokes who can handle that, so I'll definately go Ice Fang over Stone Edge.

 

[Walrein]

Sloking isn't the best lead IMO. Switch places with Gyarados, even thought I'm not sure how good is Gyarados as a lead, I can just vision that Abomasnow forcing you to flee from Grass Knot or Enegry Ball (both will do 80X1/5X2 base damage), what Gayardos could take care of with Stone Edge.
I also think Taunting Gyarados with Aromatheraphy Vilwplume is a bit unnecessary. You could either use Ice Fang or suprise many with Outrage (supposing you use Platinum). But that's anly a matter of preference.
Is Leafeon to take care of Swampert (Vileplume doesn't resist Earthquake, unlike Leafeon)? If not, I doubt you need two Grass-types...

 

[sims796]

Sloking isn't the best lead IMO. Switch places with Gyarados, even thought I'm not sure how good is Gyarados as a lead, I can just vision that Abomasnow forcing you to flee from Grass Knot or Enegry Ball (both will do 80X1/5X2 base damage), what Gayardos could take care of with Stone Edge.
I also think Taunting Gyarados with Aromatheraphy Vilwplume is a bit unnecessary. You could either use Ice Fang or suprise many with Outrage (supposing you use Platinum). But that's anly a matter of preference.
Is Leafeon to take care of Swampert (Vileplume doesn't resist Earthquake, unlike Leafeon)? If not, I doubt you need two Grass-types...

First, Slowking isn't my lead. Simple mistake, don't worry about it.

Second,Taunting Gya does not remove what Vileplume is for. Taunt can't save the rest of my team from status, as he cannot switch into status to stop it. It also doesn't stop the unessecary side effects of moves, such as Body Slam.

Third, Leafeon is there to help Gya with walling. They compliment each other very well. Leafeon also Wishpasses, and...Protect Scouts.

Having two grass types means nothing if they are fufilling two different roles.

 

[Walrein]

First, Slowking isn't my lead. Simple mistake, don't worry about it.

Second,Taunting Gya does not remove what Vileplume is for. Taunt can't save the rest of my team from status, as he cannot switch into status to stop it. It also doesn't stop the unessecary side effects of moves, such as Body Slam.

Third, Leafeon is there to help Gya with walling. They compliment each other very well. Leafeon also Wishpasses, and...Protect Scouts.

Having two grass types means nothing if they are fufilling two different roles.

Yes, your'e right. But isn't Leaf Blade alone a bit limiting Leafeon?
Why do I have a feeling Weavile could fit here very well?

 

[Dark Azelf]

Why do we need a set up fodder Cleric with Snorlax as a status absorber ?. Im sure that moveslot could be but to better use.

 

[sims796]

And why would that be? What does Weavile handle that everyone else here cant?

Leafeon only needs one move, and it might as well be a STAB. Especially since Vileplume doesn't have any grass moves on him. Leafeon has a purpose, that is PHazing, Wishpassing, & Scouting, Leaf Blade is on him only as a means of self defense, and hits things pretty hard, even if they do resist it.

EDIT:TO DA

Aroma is there because you know me.

HAX.

The secondary effects ALWAys hits at the worst possible times, and I am not yet used to using a Resttalker.

EDIT2:Nice avi, Froslass.

 

[Walrein]

SleepTalk takes away secondery effects as well, but I won't tell you to drop Vileplume. So maybe Snorlax can go out?
Hey, if Snorlax uses Crunch, you have not a single Earthquake user. What about a Cursing Mamoswine?
~My avatar? Enjoy...
https://zetsu11.deviantart.com/
https://www.sheezyart.com/
That's where I find such art.

 

[sims796]

SleepTalk takes away secondery effects as well, but I won't tell you to drop Vileplume. So maybe Snorlax can go out?
Hey, if Snorlax uses Crunch, you have not a single Earthquake user. What about a Cursing Mamoswine?
~My avatar? Enjoy...
https://zetsu11.deviantart.com/
https://www.sheezyart.com/
That's where I find such art.

So do you expect me to switch him into every move that has a secondary effect? It may be benifitial to swap Gya ito a Salamence's Flamethrower. I may need Leafeon to swap into a Body Slam. Snorlax is, well, he's my Special wall.

I might take D_A's advice and swap out Aromaterapy for another move (he never told me to lose Plume, he said lose Aromatherapy), possibly Stun Spore, or Toxic.

What does me not having an Earthquake user has to do with anything? Lucario has fighting, which hits almost the same things, if that even matters.

 

[Walrein]

Did you notice Electivire strikes all of your pokemon for super-effective damage? So do to Mamoswine, but, after a Curse, giving Mamoswine 160HP/124 Def means it will survive a 252Atk Adamant Choice Banded Eletivire's Cross Chop for 70.82% damage at max, and obviously will OHKO with Earthquake.

 

[sims796]

Yeah, Vire is stopped by Leafeon, which Ice Punch isn't an OHKO. Lucario can easily revenge kill with Extremespeed should I be dumb enough to lose to Vire. Mamoswine will add nothing to this team, more or less, especially since I will have no way of dealing with Fire users, and special sweepers will beat me easily without Lax.

Mamo isn't a huge threat either. After Curse, Gya still Intimidates, & hammers with Waterfall.

 

[.]

Okay, now I know you love using favorites (hey, who doesn't?) but I'm afraid this unhealthy Gyarados and Salamence weakness can pose a problem.

Gyarados @ Life Orb
Adamant
72 HP/252 Att/186 Spe
Dragon Dance
Waterfall
Ice Fang/Stone Edge
Stone Edge/Earthquake

That's the most used Gyarados, and most effective sweeping Gyara today...

+1 LO Ice Fang vs. 334 HP, 389 Def Leafeon: 53.89%-63.47%

That's a 2HKO 100% of the time. Switching Leafeon into it DDing is the ONLY way to prevent it from 2HKOing you. Of course, flinch chance still may play a role, as would crit. After Leafeon is down, your only other alternative is your own BulkyGyara (which you're using Ice Fang on)

+0 LO Stone Edge vs. 385 HP, 227 Def Gyarados: 81.56%-96.10%

Nevermind that this Gyarados can also set up on you if it finds out you have only Ice Fang. After Gyarados falls, you have no reliable answer to Gyara, as it can do things like DD up in your face. Your best bet is to bring Plume in, and try and Sleep Powder it. However, it's inaccurate, and Plume is still hurt by Ice Fang w/ LO.

+0 LO Ice Fang vs. 352 HP, 215 Def Vileplume: 61.36%-72.73%

Now, if you take all of this into account, you're massively Gyara weak. But that's not all; Salamence gives you troubles too. Special versions, not so much, but pure DDers really put a beating on you (especially DD/Dragon Claw/EQ/Fire Fang) BulkyDos can *sort* of wall it, but only for so long.

To patch up these problems, I reccomend a Porygon2. It makes a fantastic counter to these aformentioned threats, and is a great lead if you decide to use it as a lead.

Porgyon2 @ Leftovers
Bold
240 HP/164 Def/12 SpA/92 SpD
Discharge
Ice Beam
Recover
Toxic/Magic Coat

This thing is a tankish monster. It can counter Gyara and Mence effectively; Intimidating them right back. Of course, every set needs some calcs:

+0 LO Waterfall vs. 371 HP, 281 Def Porygon2: 41.24%-48.52%

3HKO, watch out for SR though. Catching him as he DD's is the best, but if you can come in while he has no DD's, the results are more favorable.

-1 LO Waterfall vs. 371 HP, 281 Def Porygon2: 27.49% - 32.35%

It also can handle Salamence effectively, too (beware of Specs sets, but you have Snorlax for that =])

+0 LO Dragon Claw vs. 371 HP, 281 Def Porygon2: 43.13% - 51.21%

Porygon2 doesn't take it as friendly, but switching him into Salamence's attacks, you give it -1 Attack, and, again, the results are better:

-1 LO Dragon Claw vs. 371 HP, 281 Def Porygon2: 29.11% - 34.23%


I'd reccomend placing Porygon2 over something like (honestly) Vileplume. If not him, then Leafeon. Slowking is your only means of a special sweeper, so I wouldn't ditch him. Gyarados is your fighting resist, and Lucario is your dedicated physical sweeper. Vileplume seems a bit redundant with Snorlax, and Leafeon is...just Wishpassing.

I also see a slight Tyranitar weakness. CB set to be honest, since the DDer doesn't hit nearly as hard. But I'll do the calcs for both sets:

Tyranitar @ Choice Band
Adamant
188 HP/252 Att/76 Spe
Crunch
Earthquake
Stone Edge
Pursuit

It really takes a...CRUNCH out of your whole team. Lucario can switch into 3/4 of it's moveset, however, the 4th one (EQ) will absolutely decimate it. Be careful.

CB Stone Edge vs. 334 HP, 389 Def Leafeon: 50.30%-59.28%

Leafeon cannot OHKO Tyranitar with Leaf Blade, thus it is not a safe switch in. It'll ultimiately fall to the green beast.

Next up is Gyarados, who, with even Intimidate, doesn't fair as well.

CB Stone Edge vs. 385 HP, 227 Def Gyarados: 99.74% - 117.40%

That's always an OHKO due to SS being in effect. Vileplume doesn't fare well against the massive Stone Edge; I won't even do the calcs since I feel so bad for it.

Now, let's look at the LO DDTar, which can actually pose quite a problem.

+1 LO Stone Edge vs. 334 HP, 389 Def Leafeon: 62.87% - 73.95%

Looking at it, the DD set really takes out your team. Gyarados is especially ripped:

+0 LO Stone Edge vs. 385 HP, 227 Def Gyarados: 61.82% - 73.25%


Noticing all of this, you have a massive weakness to all physical sweepers. I'd usually suggest a Bronzong, but that's up to you.

 

[sims796]

Okay, now I know you love using favorites (hey, who doesn't?) but I'm afraid this unhealthy Gyarados and Salamence weakness can pose a problem.

Gyarados @ Life Orb
Adamant
72 HP/252 Att/186 Spe
Dragon Dance
Waterfall
Ice Fang/Stone Edge
Stone Edge/Earthquake

That's the most used Gyarados, and most effective sweeping Gyara today...

+1 LO Ice Fang vs. 334 HP, 389 Def Leafeon: 53.89%-63.47%

That's a 2HKO 100% of the time. Switching Leafeon into it DDing is the ONLY way to prevent it from 2HKOing you. Of course, flinch chance still may play a role, as would crit. After Leafeon is down, your only other alternative is your own BulkyGyara (which you're using Ice Fang on)

+0 LO Stone Edge vs. 385 HP, 227 Def Gyarados: 81.56%-96.10%

Nevermind that this Gyarados can also set up on you if it finds out you have only Ice Fang. After Gyarados falls, you have no reliable answer to Gyara, as it can do things like DD up in your face. Your best bet is to bring Plume in, and try and Sleep Powder it. However, it's inaccurate, and Plume is still hurt by Ice Fang w/ LO.

+0 LO Ice Fang vs. 352 HP, 215 Def Vileplume: 61.36%-72.73%

Now, if you take all of this into account, you're massively Gyara weak. But that's not all; Salamence gives you troubles too. Special versions, not so much, but pure DDers really put a beating on you (especially DD/Dragon Claw/EQ/Fire Fang) BulkyDos can *sort* of wall it, but only for so long.

To patch up these problems, I reccomend a Porygon2. It makes a fantastic counter to these aformentioned threats, and is a great lead if you decide to use it as a lead.

Porgyon2 @ Leftovers
Bold
240 HP/164 Def/12 SpA/92 SpD
Discharge
Ice Beam
Recover
Toxic/Magic Coat

This thing is a tankish monster. It can counter Gyara and Mence effectively; Intimidating them right back. Of course, every set needs some calcs:


I'd reccomend placing Porygon2 over something like (honestly) Vileplume. If not him, then Leafeon. Slowking is your only means of a special sweeper, so I wouldn't ditch him. Gyarados is your fighting resist, and Lucario is your dedicated physical sweeper. Vileplume seems a bit redundant with Snorlax, and Leafeon is...just Wishpassing.

That's much better rate. But I don't really agree 100%.

I won't take hax into account, I lose to it anyways.

So Leafeon could handle Gya somewhat, as you said, I have been swithing it into Dragon Dance, so that isn't much of a problem.

However, you have just reminded me. The whole reason I picked Stone Edge over Ice Fang was to better handle Gyarados. So I'll stick with that.


Vileplume is meant to spread status, which I love the most. I'll remove Aromatherapy for a while for another status move, but he really shuts down many potential hazards, and scares most walls away.


Too many calcs to read >=[ But I'll take your word for it. However, I don't feel that Leafeon is the direct problem. Wishpassing is something that I truly love, and overall walling is what he is great at. Leafeon (and Snorlax) lasts the most throughout my battles.


But thank you, you have given me exactly what I was looking for; options. Now I know what to look out for, and now I know that if I start to have problems, I can swap in Pory 2 for a better solution.


However, don't ever recomend losing Plume. That's like asking a drunk guy to park your car. Hilarious, but still, you just lost a car =/ That is a crime in 15 states, BTW.

Seriously, if I'm not winning hwhile having fun, it ain't worth playing.

 

[.]

I updated my post. Tyranitar also takes a good CRUNCH (okay, bad pun :x) out of your team. After a DD, it outspeeds all of it, and easily 2HKO's all of it.

 

[sims796]

I don't think that "physical sweepers" comment is so true, especially since those two (Gya & Leaf) can alternate, weakening those sweepers down. I've never had any problem with any psycial sweeper at all, so I don't think that it's entirely true. Possibly because I have the resources to take (most) sweepers out. As long as I have that, I can let my own skills make up for the team.

However, you are the third person to warn me about Ttar, so I'll check into that. Still, it never gave me that many problems before. I am looking at the calcs, and I can see a few ways to beat it.

But at least you warned me in detail, and that will do enough.