New Timeline

MrGriszell

Madara
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    • Seen Feb 11, 2021
    So for anyone who's played ORAS you know that gen 6 takes place in an alternate timeline from the previous 5 gens. So with this said do you think Sun and Moon will take place in said timeline? And if so when do you think these games will take place?
     
    I think it would depend on the existense of Megas. IIRC, Zinnia pointed out in ORAS that there exists a universe where the Ultimate Weapon was not fired and that there were no Megas, and that universe was more or less the original RSE games. While I personally think it's highly unlikely they'll get rid of Megas for Gen 7 due to the nature of that mechanic, we still haven't seen any proof of whether that's true or not. With that said, to me it's hard to tell which "universe" that SM will take place in.
     
    WingsofBliss said:
    I think it would depend on the existense of Megas. IIRC, Zinnia pointed out in ORAS that there exists a universe where the Ultimate Weapon was not fired and that there were no Megas, and that universe was more or less the original RSE games. While I personally think it's highly unlikely they'll get rid of Megas for Gen 7 due to the nature of that mechanic, we still haven't seen any proof of whether that's true or not. With that said, to me it's hard to tell which "universe" that SM will take place in.
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    I'm pretty sure it was referring to the original two gen games, because according to a 2013 tweet, the original RSE is in the same timeline as XY, where Megas were eventually first discovered (as well as Fairies). With that said, knowing that Megas won't be going away, I believe Sun and Moon would take place at either the RSE to XY timeline or the ORAS timeline.
     
    Pinkie-Dawn said:
    I'm pretty sure it was referring to the original two gen games, because according to a 2013 tweet, the original RSE is in the same timeline as XY, where Megas were eventually first discovered (as well as Fairies). With that said, knowing that Megas won't be going away, I believe Sun and Moon would take place at either the RSE to XY timeline or the ORAS timeline.
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    I'm stumped... that doesn't really make any sense. How can RSE be in the same universe as XY? Megas didn't exist in RSE but they exist in XY. I think you mean that ORAS exists in the same universe as XY, because of the existence of Megas.
     
    No you're absolutely right, games from gen 3- gen 5 are from one timeline while gen 6 forward will be this new timeline with Mega Evolution. My only question is how far in the past does ORAS takes place before XY.
     
    WingsofBliss said:
    I'm stumped... that doesn't really make any sense. How can RSE be in the same universe as XY? Megas didn't exist in RSE but they exist in XY. I think you mean that ORAS exists in the same universe as XY, because of the existence of Megas.
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    Professor Sycamore said that Mega Evolutions were exclusive to Kalos because of their recent discovery, which means XY is in the Gen 3 to Gen 5 timeline. It makes no sense for it to be in the ORAS timeline, because both Mega Evolutions and Fairy types aren't treated as a new thing as they were in XY. I want to ask you if you've already heard about that 2013 tweet explaining the timeline.
     
    Pinkie-Dawn said:
    Professor Sycamore said that Mega Evolutions were exclusive to Kalos because of their recent discovery, which means XY is in the Gen 3 to Gen 5 timeline. It makes no sense for it to be in the ORAS timeline, because both Mega Evolutions and Fairy types aren't treated as a new thing as they were in XY. I want to ask you if you've already heard about that 2013 tweet explaining the timeline.
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    Not true, Mega Evolution wasn't recently discovered during XY. Look at the texts regarding the tower of mastery
     
    Pinkie-Dawn said:
    And yet why did Sycamore said they were exclusive to Kalos?
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    Because he kinda had to, like we had 5 gen without this form of evolution so it had to be explained but now with mega evolution appearing in ORAS and most likely Sun and Moon it's not so exclusive. Kinda how professor Elm said he "discovered" Pokemon eggs
     
    It's hard to say if SM will add anything to warrant a "new timeline." As it stands, the whole "multiverse" thing presented by Zinnia was mainly just a writing cop-out to lengthen the plot of the Delta Episode, so I'm really not too concerned. If the narrative of SM are even remotely well-thought-out, their relative timeframe and whatever universe they're in will be clear enough.

    The only thing I can think of at the time being is SM will take place at the same time as XY, or a little bit after, depending on what sort of role Zygarde will play, if it does have its own sub-plot (or place in the main plot).

    MrGriszell said:
    No you're absolutely right, games from gen 3- gen 5 are from one timeline while gen 6 forward will be this new timeline with Mega Evolution. My only question is how far in the past does ORAS takes place before XY.
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    I will never be able to wrap my head around this, ORAS taking place before XY. If ORAS and XY take place in close proximity (such as the case with HGSS and DPP) then the references to the Kalosian War, Floette's flower in Sootopolis, and even Sycamore's claim all make sense without the need to retcon anything--if Hoenn and Kalos were discovering the use of Mega Evolution around the same time, it makes sense for Sycamore to think that it's exclusive to Kalos because they're discovering it first, with Hoenn right on their tail.
     
    Rivvon said:
    It's hard to say if SM will add anything to warrant a "new timeline." As it stands, the whole "multiverse" thing presented by Zinnia was mainly just a writing cop-out to lengthen the plot of the Delta Episode, so I'm really not too concerned. If the narrative of SM are even remotely well-thought-out, their relative timeframe and whatever universe they're in will be clear enough.

    The only thing I can think of at the time being is SM will take place at the same time as XY, or a little bit after, depending on what sort of role Zygarde will play, if it does have its own sub-plot (or place in the main plot).



    I will never be able to wrap my head around this, ORAS taking place before XY. If ORAS and XY take place in close proximity (such as the case with HGSS and DPP) then the references to the Kalosian War, Floette's flower in Sootopolis, and even Sycamore's claim all make sense without the need to retcon anything--if Hoenn and Kalos were discovering the use of Mega Evolution around the same time, it makes sense for Sycamore to think that it's exclusive to Kalos because they're discovering it first, with Hoenn right on their tail.
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    Main reason it's said that it takes place before is because of things like the Royal Unova not being completed yet( XY takes place 2 years after Black and White) and the fact that the origins of that guy who gives you power ups is explained
     
    MrGriszell said:
    Main reason it's said that it takes place before is because of things like the Royal Unova not being completed yet( XY takes place 2 years after Black and White) and the fact that the origins of that guy who gives you power ups is explained
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    The Royal Unova not being completed doesn't matter, though, because this is a completely separate universe. The things that happened in the gens 1-5 universe don't necessarily need to have happened already--all that matters is what happened in XY versus ORAS. Maybe in this universe, the ordeal with Team Plasma has already happened (Colress reference in XY), but the Royal Unova isn't done because it had to be postponed (no Royal Unova in BW remakes confirmed?).

    And the O-Powers guy could still be happening alongside the events of XY, similar to how DPP opens up with a news report about the shiny Gyarados at the Lake of Rage. Although that happens in the Johto (first) portion of the game, Erica convincing Jasmine to go to Sinnoh happens in the Kanto (second) portion of the game, but in DPP Jasmine is at Sunyshore before the player challenges the Elite Four. Same thing here: O-Powers guy happens in Hoenn (ORAS), then he goes to Kalos (XY). They could still be happening simultaneously.
     
    Rivvon said:
    The Royal Unova not being completed doesn't matter, though, because this is a completely separate universe. The things that happened in the gens 1-5 universe don't necessarily need to have happened already--all that matters is what happened in XY versus ORAS. Maybe in this universe, the ordeal with Team Plasma has already happened (Colress reference in XY), but the Royal Unova isn't done because it had to be postponed (no Royal Unova in BW remakes confirmed?).

    And the O-Powers guy could still be happening alongside the events of XY, similar to how DPP opens up with a news report about the shiny Gyarados at the Lake of Rage. Although that happens in the Johto (first) portion of the game, Erica convincing Jasmine to go to Sinnoh happens in the Kanto (second) portion of the game, but in DPP Jasmine is at Sunyshore before the player challenges the Elite Four. Same thing here: O-Powers guy happens in Hoenn (ORAS), then he goes to Kalos (XY). They could still be happening simultaneously.
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    Very good point
     
    Pinkie-Dawn said:
    Professor Sycamore said that Mega Evolutions were exclusive to Kalos because of their recent discovery, which means XY is in the Gen 3 to Gen 5 timeline. It makes no sense for it to be in the ORAS timeline, because both Mega Evolutions and Fairy types aren't treated as a new thing as they were in XY. I want to ask you if you've already heard about that 2013 tweet explaining the timeline.
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    You're gonna have to link me the tweet, because I know nothing about it. What I've been looking at is the existence of Megas alone and disregarding anything Sycamore had said about Megas and Fairies in XY since ORAS came out. I had a theory that if ORAS takes place before XY, Sycamore might not have known about Hoenn's Megas storyline at the time of XY. Another interesting thing is that Cosmo in ORAS makes a comment about contacting Sycamore to tell him about his Mega Evolution findings involving Meteorites.
     
    WingsofBliss said:
    You're gonna have to link me the tweet, because I know nothing about it. What I've been looking at is the existence of Megas alone and disregarding anything Sycamore had said about Megas and Fairies in XY since ORAS came out. I had a theory that if ORAS takes place before XY, Sycamore might not have known about Hoenn's Megas storyline at the time of XY. Another interesting thing is that Cosmo in ORAS makes a comment about contacting Sycamore to tell him about his Mega Evolution findings involving Meteorites.
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    Here is the tweet to the Pok?mon timeline (it's actually made in 2014 and not 2013, so my bad).
     
    Rivvon said:
    I will never be able to wrap my head around this, ORAS taking place before XY. If ORAS and XY take place in close proximity (such as the case with HGSS and DPP) then the references to the Kalosian War, Floette's flower in Sootopolis, and even Sycamore's claim all make sense without the need to retcon anything--if Hoenn and Kalos were discovering the use of Mega Evolution around the same time, it makes sense for Sycamore to think that it's exclusive to Kalos because they're discovering it first, with Hoenn right on their tail.
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    That's because GF made a mess of their own timeline by making ORAS. They had already established that XY took place at the same time as B2W2, but they had also established way back in FRLG's postgame that RSE took place at the same time as the Gen 1/Kanto story. Thus, they couldn't just toss Megas and Fairies into ORAS out of nowhere, because then they'd have to explain why those things exist in Hoenn but not Kanto, Johto, Sinnoh, and Unova. That's where all of the alternate timeline business from the Delta Episode came from. It was GF trying to write themselves out of a messy situation.

    And, before you bring it up, tossing Dark and Steel into FRLG worked because Gen 3 reset the timeline back to the beginning, so nothing from past games was contradicted. You can see it in how all references to Steel being a new/undiscovered type were scrubbed from HGSS.

    Jasmine's GSC Dialog:

    "Thank you for your help at the Lighthouse... But this is different. Please allow me to introduce myself. I'm Jasmine, a Gym Leader. I use the steel-type. ...Do you know about the steel-type? It's a type that was only recently discovered. ...Um... May I begin?"

    Jasmine's HGSS Dialog:

    "Thank you for your help at the Lighthouse... But this is different. Please allow me to introduce myself. I'm Jasmine, a Gym Leader. I use the...clang! Steel type! ...Do you know about the Steel type? They are very hard, cold, sharp, and really strong! Um... I'm not lying."
     
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