Nintendo's Tomodachi Life and gay marriage

[Dakotah]

Nintendo's Tomodachi Life gay marriage stance draws widespread criticism

Nintendo's refusal to revisit the heterosexual marriage requirement in 3DS game Tomodachi Life has caused an eruption of criticism across the internet.

The platform holder on Wednesday said that it would not bow to pressure to patch in the ability for players of the quirky life-sim to marry others of the same gender, claiming that "Nintendo never intended to make any form of social commentary with the launch of Tomodachi Life." ...

Continue reading here: https://www.mcvuk.com/news/read/nintendo-s-tomodachi-life-stance-draws-widespread-criticism/0132208

Has Nintendo shot themselves in the foot with this decision of theirs? Why or why not?

 

[Star-Lord]

I don't think they have. I've seen this floating around on tumblr a lot - and while I understand why people are upset (and think that their feelings are perfectly reasonable and valid) I can't get myself to care about it. The video game industry in Japan is rooted in deep anti-lgbt culture so I wasn't surprised to hear the news. Old Japanese men control the industry, and I think a lot of people forget exactly how difficult it would be to get past that block right now. Is it annoying? Yeah, because it would be cool to see gay people included in a game that's meant to emulate the real world. Do I personally find it worth it to get upset over? Not particularly. Also to fix the problem would require an entire re-coding of the video game.

I don't think they've shot themselves in the foot because this is the industry standard in Japan and to cause change would take a lot more effort on everybody's end. People are still going to be buying Nintendo's video games (Hell I'm a gay man and I don't find myself personally bothered about Tomodachi life at all). I think that change needs to come one day in video games considering it's a field that's absolutely drenched in homophobia but it's not happening right now.

tl;dr: What they did is ♥♥♥♥♥♥, people have full right to get upset over it, but I don't think it's that huge of a deal in the end at the moment.

 

[PokemonLeagueChamp]

Ultimately, I don't this is going to be too much of a big deal. People will probably be too busy talking about OmegaRuby and AlphaSapphire to even take much notice. It's possible this will get blown out of proportion somewhere and we'll end up seeing some blog or website proclaiming "NINTENDO DISCRIMATES AGAINST LGBT COMMUNITY" or something, but I doubt anyone will care enough because some video game that half of us probably hadn't even heard about has a negligible effect on day to day life.

 

[twocows]

No. Nintendo's largest and most exclusive market is the "family values" right-leaning crowd; these folks trust Nintendo to be safe and respect their "values," which usually includes a fair amount of literal homophobia (not "gay-hating" so much as "gay-fearing"). Nintendo has a monopoly on "family values," and they'll do whatever they need to do so they seem safe to that crowd. It was a typical and rational Nintendo business move.

As for what I personally think about it? It's a video game. A video game. I'm sure there are more important things you could worry about in regards to the gay rights movement. If you don't like the game, do what I do to games that I don't like: ignore it, and if anyone asks your opinion, tell them why you are ignoring it. Personally, I'm ignoring it because it looks terrible, not because Nintendo did exactly what I expected them to do.

 

[Dakotah]

No. Nintendo's largest and most exclusive market is the "family values" right-leaning crowd; these folks trust Nintendo to be safe and respect their "values," which usually includes a fair amount of literal homophobia (not "gay-hating" so much as "gay-fearing"). Nintendo has a monopoly on "family values," and they'll do whatever they need to do so they seem safe to that crowd. It was a typical and rational Nintendo business move.

At the rate Nintendo is losing money, something tells me that strategy isn't working all that well for them as much as they'd like. The only thing holding them even remotely afloat these days are their software sales. Nintendo said this past Wednesday that it had ended its 2012-13 financial year with its third consecutive loss. They are in fact counting on a series of new video games, like "Mario Kart 8," to revive sales and hopefully return it to a profit. Any one with the most basic knowledge of marketing can tell you if you limit your market, you limit your profits. So catering to the "family values" crowd only isn't going to cut it any more.

I find it interesting, also, that in making the claim they were "absolutely not trying to provide social commentary" they have in fact made a pretty strong one. I have absolutely no idea how they could even say that with a straight face.

 

[maccrash]

I find it interesting, also, that in making the claim they were "absolutely not trying to provide social commentary" they have in fact made a pretty strong one. I have absolutely no idea how they could even say that with a straight face.

I don't see how this is true. if they hadn't have said that, people would've thought they were being blatantly homophobic, or at least have no way to prove that they weren't. it's definitely best for them to have cleared that up, imo.

 

[Dakotah]

I don't see how this is true. if they hadn't have said that, people would've thought they were being blatantly homophobic, or at least have no way to prove that they weren't. it's definitely best for them to have cleared that up, imo.

Once again I quote from the article:

Critics, however, have rightly pointed out that preventing gay marriage in a day and age where it is increasingly commonplace is by its nature a form of social commentary.

 

[Pinkie-Dawn]

The removal of gay marriage in Tomodashi Life is old news back in 2013, back when the game was Japan-exclusive. It was originally a glitch that was later patched. I'm ok for gay marriage in video games, but Nintendo doesn't want to get involved into such controversy, as homophobes still exist in this time and day. It can ruin their reputation as a "family value" company, like twocows mentioned.

As for what I personally think about it? It's a video game. A video game. I'm sure there are more important things you could worry about in regards to the gay rights movement. If you don't like the game, do what I do to games that I don't like: ignore it, and if anyone asks your opinion, tell them why you are ignoring it. Personally, I'm ignoring it because it looks terrible, not because Nintendo did exactly what I expected them to do.

Well given my idea of treating entertainment media like movies and video games as the way as politics due to having corrupted companies, as I mentioned back in the Majority thread, we might as well vote for which company should stay and which should go based on their games not meeting our expectations.

 

[Dakotah]

The removal of gay marriage in Tomodashi Life is old news back in 2013, back when the game was Japan-exclusive. It was originally a glitch that was later patched. I'm ok for gay marriage in video games, but Nintendo doesn't want to get involved into such controversy, as homophobes still exist in this time and day. It can ruin their reputation as a "family value" company, like twocows mentioned.

I think it could do more harm to the company to alienate a very large segment of their customer base. Gaming companies the world over recognize that the LGBT community represents a sizable gaming population, one that needs to be listened to with equal weight. Many a company has gone under for taking certain actions because they fear that doing otherwise might hurt their reputation. But in the end causes far more damage to the company than if they had made a different decision.

A production company like Nintendo can only survive if they try to create a product that would be of interest to the greatest possible number of people. If you create a product that alienates a certain group of your loyal customers, you risk loosing those customers forever. For a company that has right now posted 3 consecutive losses in a row, Nintendo can ill afford to alienate any of their customer base. Protecting your reputation at the expense of continued dwindling profits is not a sound business decision.

 

[Aquacorde]

I'm just gonna pop in here to say that Nintendo apologized for this and seems to be aiming for better inclusiveness in the future. [x]

We apologize for disappointing many people by failing to include same-sex relationships in Tomodachi Life. Unfortunately, it is not possible for us to change this game's design, and such a significant development change can't be accomplished with a post-ship patch. At Nintendo, dedication has always meant going beyond the games to promote a sense of community, and to share a spirit of fun and joy. We are committed to advancing our longtime company values of fun and entertainment for everyone. We pledge that if we create a next installment in the Tomodachi series, we will strive to design a game-play experience from the ground up that is more inclusive, and better represents all players.

I mean make of it what you will, but it's something. And that's nice.

 

[Palkia]

Nintendo have already finished the code for this game, but I don't see why they shouldn't introduce at least a option for LGBT characters. Even if the game get's a T/12 rating due to it having 'sexual themes' (which is homophobic ♥♥♥♥♥♥♥♥) they should at least attempt a patch. Nintendo are trying to appeal to everybody with Tomodachi Life, so it seems that alienating them makes a backlash like this inevitable. It is funny to see how this has progressed from a bugfix back in the Japanese release to this huge controversy. It's overblown.

 

[Oryx]

I'm just gonna pop in here to say that Nintendo apologized for this and seems to be aiming for better inclusiveness in the future. [x]


I mean make of it what you will, but it's something. And that's nice.

Thank you for posting this; I totally understand where they're coming from. The original, pre-patch game allowed same-sex marriages but it broke the entire game. The patch wasn't just to make it homophobic or something, it was to fix the game and a side effect of that was that they had to make marriages opposite-sex only. This indicates that there is something fundamental in the code of marriages that is broken by that. It means they can fix it, but they would have to do massive recoding which isn't feasible. As a programmer I can think of a million reasons why same-sex couples would be an issue in the code if it wasn't initially designed for it.

I think the apology of "we'll do this next time and understand why it's upsetting" is the absolute best they can do. They acknowledged what they did wrong, they explained why it happened, and they promised to do better in the future.

 

[Dakotah]

Good to see Nintendo do this. I'm not a programmer, so I couldn't say how difficult it would be to patch the game. I imagine it would have to involve an update to the Mii's themselves. If Nintendo is willing to attempt to be more inclusive in the next version, then for sure, I would be willing to take a second look at the game.

 

[TRIFORCE89]

Thank you for posting this; I totally understand where they're coming from. The original, pre-patch game allowed same-sex marriages but it broke the entire game. The patch wasn't just to make it homophobic or something, it was to fix the game and a side effect of that was that they had to make marriages opposite-sex only. This indicates that there is something fundamental in the code of marriages that is broken by that. It means they can fix it, but they would have to do massive recoding which isn't feasible. As a programmer I can think of a million reasons why same-sex couples would be an issue in the code if it wasn't initially designed for it.

I think the apology of "we'll do this next time and understand why it's upsetting" is the absolute best they can do. They acknowledged what they did wrong, they explained why it happened, and they promised to do better in the future.

Pretty much quoting you because I agree with everything you said and I have nothing else to add haha

 

[Keiran]

As for what I personally think about it? It's a video game. A video game. I'm sure there are more important things you could worry about in regards to the gay rights movement.

Actually, visibility is LGBT right's greatest ally - so it's actually very important to have representation in media, including video games. I don't know what family values Nintendo chooses to have, but with their public apology, I doubt they care about seeming "safe" to the right-wing crowd.

 

[Star-Lord]

I find visibility in video games to be a HUGE thing considering the fact that homophobia is still rampant in video game culture. I still remember when Mass Effect 3 was released and people went "blah blah blah I don't hate gay people but this is unnecessary; we're just catering to specific groups now" and other trite ♥♥♥♥♥♥♥♥ over completely optional content. Video games is one of those things in western society that is a huge hurdle for the inclusiveness of gay people and women. Am I going to say that it's the most important thing? No. Am I going to tell people how they should react in face of it? No. I can't stand when straight people say "Gay people should be worrying about something else" because that isn't their place. To be frank I don't think it's even a gay person's place to tell other gay people what to worry about, so take that as you will.

 

[Phazon Elemental]

At the rate Nintendo is losing money, something tells me that strategy isn't working all that well for them as much as they'd like. The only thing holding them even remotely afloat these days are their software sales. Nintendo said this past Wednesday that it had ended its 2012-13 financial year with its third consecutive loss. They are in fact counting on a series of new video games, like "Mario Kart 8," to revive sales and hopefully return it to a profit. Any one with the most basic knowledge of marketing can tell you if you limit your market, you limit your profits. So catering to the "family values" crowd only isn't going to cut it any more.

Please cite statistics on Nintendo losing this much money.

And as far as one statement in particular, i.e. "if you limit your market, you limit your profits" -- this is true, but here's the problem: if Nintendo has a larger market of conservatives who consider homosexuality evil compared to people who have joined the 21st century, it may actually be a better business move for them to accept the market limitation, because a change of stance may change how the market is limited and cut profits even more. Of course, I think they were shown that people who weren't extreme right-wingers were still an actual, vociferous market force, hence the apology. Of course, all we can do is lean back and see if it was an honest statement.

I find it interesting, also, that in making the claim they were "absolutely not trying to provide social commentary" they have in fact made a pretty strong one. I have absolutely no idea how they could even say that with a straight face.

There was literally no action they could have taken on this that could not be taken as possibly being social commentary, so that's kind of a specious complaint.

Especially if you accept their logic.

 

[Dakotah]

Please cite statistics on Nintendo losing this much money.

Okay:

https://www.nintendo.co.jp/ir/pdf/2014/140507e.pdf

This report shows that Nintendo is reporting a $457 million loss for fiscal year. They're blaming this loss on Wii U sales.

 

[Phantom1]

It's pretty much common knowledge that Nintendo is failing.

 

[Dakotah]

I certainly agree that Nintendo would do well to begin porting its games over to Android and Apple portable devices such as phones and tablets. I created a thread about his before, but most everyone seemed to disagree, and that Nintendo should continue doing what it's been doing thus far. The problem is, what they're doing isn't working.