Normal Pokemon-Legendaries = Real Life Animals -Cryptids

[Redstar]

I'm sorry, I think I just broke my keyboard facedesking.
I think I missed the part about Arcanine being a legendary. Let me do a double take here... Arcanine is included in legends, as are Lapras and Dragonite, but is not a legendary pokemon. FYI there is a legend about Magikarp. By your logic the most feeble and annoying pokemon in the game is legendary. Why use Arcanine as an example?
Unown were featured in a movie and had the ability to create a new reality from the imagination of a little girl. The ability to distort space to that extent? Chalk it up as a legendary. Mew is the ancestor of all pokemon and boasts nearly unmatched power. Legendary. Deoxys come from outer space and can morph into different forms, changing his stats and abilities as well. He wields an unearthly power as well. Anything that can give Rayquaza a run for its money is a legendary.

Flame off.

What are you talking about? If you had actually read my post, you would know that I agreed that Mew, Arcanine, and Deoxys were legendary.

As far as Unown, yes, its legendary, but not because of the anime. Though I believe they could possibly do such a thing, it has not yet been confirmed in the games so they are as of now legendary on the sole basis of being in legends. And yes, Lapras, Dragonite, and Magikarp are legendary. That was my entire point of posting.

 

[Curt_09]

What are you talking about? If you had actually read my post, you would know that I agreed that Mew, Arcanine, and Deoxys were legendary.

As far as Unown, yes, its legendary, but not because of the anime. Though I believe they could possibly do such a thing, it has not yet been confirmed in the games so they are as of now legendary on the sole basis of being in legends. And yes, Lapras, Dragonite, and Magikarp are legendary. That was my entire point of posting.

I did read your post, but it was very unclear, and it seemed that you were downing real legendaries to make it look like Spiritomb is a legendary. Which he is not. I was just giving examples that elevate these pokemon above ordinary pokemon.
Key to knowing a legendary - look in the pokedex. Legendaries always come after the one-offs and before the next group of starters, and are usually started off by a trio of some sort. I personally have never counted Unown as a legendary due to its weakness and availability in the games, but to be technical by looking at standpoint based on info outside of gameplay, which seems to be what most people are doing in their assumptions, only one legendary pokemon not falling into the previous catagorization by pokedex number is Unown. The only exceptions to the pokedex number rule are the Dratini and Larvitar families, which appear between the bird trio and Mewtwo and between the dog trio and Lugia respectively.
Spiritomb is not legendary, just like Lucario, Arcanine, Lapras, and all of the others. The point I wanted to make.

 

[Fishyman]

I think it would be easier if you just explained to them that when you say legendary you mean a pokemon depicted in legend/Arcanine being the "Legendary Pokemon".

 

[Redstar]

I did read your post, but it was very unclear, and it seemed that you were downing real legendaries to make it look like Spiritomb is a legendary. Which he is not. I was just giving examples that elevate these pokemon above ordinary pokemon.

Key to knowing a legendary - look in the pokedex. Legendaries always come after the one-offs and before the next group of starters, and are usually started off by a trio of some sort. I personally have never counted Unown as a legendary due to its weakness and availability in the games, but to be technical by looking at standpoint based on info outside of gameplay, which seems to be what most people are doing in their assumptions, only one legendary pokemon not falling into the previous catagorization by pokedex number is Unown. The only exceptions to the pokedex number rule are the Dratini and Larvitar families, which appear between the bird trio and Mewtwo and between the dog trio and Lugia respectively.

Spiritomb is not legendary, just like Lucario, Arcanine, Lapras, and all of the others. The point I wanted to make.

Where is it ever officially stated that legendaries must be positioned in a specific place in the 'Dex? It sounds like something just made up, which people like you seem to spout off all the time in blind belief.

The games aren't entirely based on competitive battling, nor as "a game". The games represent a world with real characters, real people, real culture, and real animals. Magikarp, Lapras, and any species in the franchise ever subject to myths or legends is a legendary Pokemon. Simple as that.

 

[Curt_09]

Where is it ever officially stated that legendaries must be positioned in a specific place in the 'Dex? It sounds like something just made up, which people like you seem to spout off all the time in blind belief.

The games aren't entirely based on competitive battling, nor as "a game". The games represent a world with real characters, real people, real culture, and real animals. Magikarp, Lapras, and any species in the franchise ever subject to myths or legends is a legendary Pokemon. Simple as that.

The games are totally unrealistic and totally throw off what a real legendary pokemon is.
A legendary pokemon is a pokemon of immense power or importance that is rarely if ever seen and uncatchable. The fact that in the anime they are seen is just fanservice. Keeping this is mind, in the world of pokemon these creatures are sometimes believed in, sometimes not, and usually don't have much proof of their existence. In relation to real life, legendary pokemon are like Bigfoot or Nessy. The only difference is that legendary pokemon have some special role to play in the envrionment, almost like gods.
Pokemon such as Arcanine, the Legendary Pokemon, are the stuff of legends, yes, but so was Babe Ruth. True legendary pokemon haven't been captured and you will never see a trainer owning one, except on WiFi where a team of six Darkrais is more common than a cold.

 

[Redstar]

The games are totally unrealistic and totally throw off what a real legendary pokemon is.

A legendary pokemon is a pokemon of immense power or importance that is rarely if ever seen and uncatchable. The fact that in the anime they are seen is just fanservice. Keeping this is mind, in the world of pokemon these creatures are sometimes believed in, sometimes not, and usually don't have much proof of their existence. In relation to real life, legendary pokemon are like Bigfoot or Nessy. The only difference is that legendary pokemon have some special role to play in the envrionment, almost like gods.

Pokemon such as Arcanine, the Legendary Pokemon, are the stuff of legends, yes, but so was Babe Ruth. True legendary pokemon haven't been captured and you will never see a trainer owning one, except on WiFi where a team of six Darkrais is more common than a cold.

Actually, no. I am in no way taking the anime into account. I am looking solely at the games. And in the context of the games, every Pokemon I mentioned is a legendary.

And, especially, no. Just no. Legendary Pokemon are in no way, shape, or form comparable to the Loch Ness monster or Bigfoot or any other cryptid.

 

[Curt_09]

Actually, no. I am in no way taking the anime into account. I am looking solely at the games. And in the context of the games, every Pokemon I mentioned is a legendary.

And, especially, no. Just no. Legendary Pokemon are in no way, shape, or form comparable to the Loch Ness monster or Bigfoot or any other cryptid.

You're going by the games (which are sketchy on details and really thin on storyline) and I'm going by eleven years experience in the Pokemon culture. I wish people could understand what is and is not a legendary. I vote we stop calling them legendary altogether and let that term include Arcanine and Dragonite so we can avoid pointless arguements like we're having. The new term should be _______. Now let's waste time filling that blank instead of arguing a moot point.

________ pokemon are as rare as the Loch Ness Monster and Bigfoot, not similar to them. :cer_pissed: _________ pokemon are more like the Greek gods.

 

[Redstar]

You're going by the games (which are sketchy on details and really thin on storyline) and I'm going by eleven years experience in the Pokemon culture. I wish people could understand what is and is not a legendary. I vote we stop calling them legendary altogether and let that term include Arcanine and Dragonite so we can avoid pointless arguements like we're having. The new term should be _______. Now let's waste time filling that blank instead of arguing a moot point.

________ pokemon are as rare as the Loch Ness Monster and Bigfoot, not similar to them. :cer_pissed: _________ pokemon are more like the Greek gods.

You're seriously don't get it, do you? Legendary Pokemon aren't like either.

 

[Curt_09]

You're seriously don't get it, do you? Legendary Pokemon aren't like either.

No, you don't get it. Legendary pokemon are not but mere rumors, myths, legends passed down for centuries. I'm trying to relate that to you with analogies, but you keep trying to compare their physical characteristics rather than their perception by the human psche and society as a whole. It's not what they are but how we percieve them that I'm trying to convey here.

 

[Redstar]

No, you don't get it. Legendary pokemon are not but mere rumors, myths, legends passed down for centuries. I'm trying to relate that to you with analogies, but you keep trying to compare their physical characteristics rather than their perception by the human psche and society as a whole. It's not what they are but how we percieve them that I'm trying to convey here.

When did I ever suggest that legendary Pokemon were defined by their physical characteristics? From the very beginning my point was to the contrary, while you began your argument with "Legendary Pokemon can alter the world", which is in every sense physical.

Before you jump to conclusions, why don't you actually read what I've written? You seem to agree with me without realizing it, yet still don't follow your own definition and discount the legendaries of Arcanine, Magikarp, Lapras, and so on... By your own failed logic you probably discount Slowpoke as a legendary, which would be a crime against the very fandom. I hope you choose your next words wisely as not to anger the citizens of Azalea Town.

 

[Curt_09]

When did I ever suggest that legendary Pokemon were defined by their physical characteristics? From the very beginning my point was to the contrary, while you began your argument with "Legendary Pokemon can alter the world", which is in every sense physical.

Before you jump to conclusions, why don't you actually read what I've written? You seem to agree with me without realizing it, yet still don't follow your own definition and discount the legendaries of Arcanine, Magikarp, Lapras, and so on... By your own failed logic you probably discount Slowpoke as a legendary, which would be a crime against the very fandom. I hope you choose your next words wisely as not to anger the citizens of Azalea Town.

And if you will take the time to read back through my posts you will see that I never posted "Legendary pokemon can alter the world". The closest I came to that topic at all is saying that legendaries are beings of immense power.
The citizens of Azalea Town can cry me a river because Slowpoke is not a legendary.
You continue to confuse being legendary with being a legendary. They are two very different things with similar titles and an overlapping criterian and I think that is what is confusing you here.
Arcanine is legendary. Here legendary is an adjective, describing something of or pertaining to legends.
Mew is a legendary. Here legendary is used as a noun to define a certain group of elite pokemon.
Similarities - They are both included in legends.
Differences- The level of power they wield and their rarity, to name two.
In the world of pokemon there are only one or very few of a breed of a legendary, whereas there is a regular and steady population seen and interacted with by humans every day per species of legendary pokemon.

 

[Redstar]

And if you will take the time to read back through my posts you will see that I never posted "Legendary pokemon can alter the world". The closest I came to that topic at all is saying that legendaries are beings of immense power.

You said, and I quote:
Originally Posted by Neiteio
Legendary Pokemon seem to be defined by a) being responsible for creating the universe and/or controlling natural phenomena
If neither of those definitions, in your own words no less, can be simplified into "can alter the world", then you've severely contradicted yourself and your argument is rendered moot.

The citizens of Azalea Town can cry me a river because Slowpoke is not a legendary.

Slowpoke is the subject of a local legend (possibly true), which thus counts it and its species as "legendary". I should think saving an entire city from starvation and being wiped off the map would be enough to make a Pokemon legendary in any form of the definition.

You continue to confuse being legendary with being a legendary. They are two very different things with similar titles and an overlapping criterian and I think that is what is confusing you here.

Arcanine is legendary. Here legendary is an adjective, describing something of or pertaining to legends.
Mew is a legendary. Here legendary is used as a noun to define a certain group of elite pokemon.
Similarities - They are both included in legends.
Differences- The level of power they wield and their rarity, to name two.
In the world of pokemon there are only one or very few of a breed of a legendary, whereas there is a regular and steady population seen and interacted with by humans every day per species of legendary pokemon.

The Japanese games classify "legendary" Pokemon in one of three ways: 1.) Pokemon of illusion, which would contain Mew and Lugia; 2.) Pokemon of legend, which would contain Arcanine, Dragonite, and Slowpoke, and 3.) Pokemon of myth, which quite obviously contains the various trios of the third and fourth generation. All three groups are singly known as "legendary" in the US, and unfortunately by the fandom excludes many of the ones the Japanese games give credit to

In short, there are many ways a Pokemon can be classified as "legendary", and simply closing off any that does not fit the criteria for competitive battling or an anime movie should not restrict them from being of cultural significance. Hopefully you can change your perspective, since Slowpoke would be so happy if you did.

 

[TheAnnoyer]

omg hi I am new here wooooot this topic is really cool!

 

[Fishyman]

omg hi I am new here wooooot this topic is really cool!

Obvious troll is obvious.

 

[Curt_09]

You said, and I quote:
Originally Posted by Neiteio
Legendary Pokemon seem to be defined by a) being responsible for creating the universe and/or controlling natural phenomena
If neither of those definitions, in your own words no less, can be simplified into "can alter the world", then you've severely contradicted yourself and your argument is rendered moot.

Wow, you are a complete idiot. I haven't contradicted myself yet and if you're too stupid to tell the difference between Neiteio and Curt_09 then this just confirms what I thought about you at the start of this arguement.

Slowpoke is the subject of a local legend (possibly true), which thus counts it and its species as "legendary". I should think saving an entire city from starvation and being wiped off the map would be enough to make a Pokemon legendary in any form of the definition.

Did I not, in previous posts, agree that Slowpoke was legendary? Not a legendary in the form of the word that most people are throwing around nowadays to describe ubers, but still a pokemon of legendary qualities.

The Japanese games classify "legendary" Pokemon in one of three ways: 1.) Pokemon of illusion, which would contain Mew and Lugia; 2.) Pokemon of legend, which would contain Arcanine, Dragonite, and Slowpoke, and 3.) Pokemon of myth, which quite obviously contains the various trios of the third and fourth generation. All three groups are singly known as "legendary" in the US, and unfortunately by the fandom excludes many of the ones the Japanese games give credit to

In short, there are many ways a Pokemon can be classified as "legendary", and simply closing off any that does not fit the criteria for competitive battling or an anime movie should not restrict them from being of cultural significance. Hopefully you can change your perspective, since Slowpoke would be so happy if you did.

I haven't changed my perspective at all and yet you seem to be mostly agreeing with me. Why don't you stop trying to lump other people's arguements into this and call them mine just because you seem to be losing yours? Not in any physical ways, but in the way people percieve them, Slowpoke is legendary the same way as Seabicuit, tangible, something the people can see and touch, whereas Mew is legendary in the way Nessy is. One is there for the people and has a legend about it, and one is not there and all the people have is a legend.
God, why do I have the feeling you're still not going to understand anything I'm saying? I'm better off explaining this to my dog.
I never discredited Slopoke and the others on the basis of competitive battling or anime movies. Stop putting words in my mouth.

 

[Aegis]

Okay guys, no need to get worked up or anything, it's just a discussion XD Try not to take things so personally or offensively, and try to be courteous and polite to others, thanks :]

 

[Redstar]

Wow, you are a complete idiot. I haven't contradicted myself yet and if you're too stupid to tell the difference between Neiteio and Curt_09 then this just confirms what I thought about you at the start of this arguement.

Thank you for proving my point. I plan one little mistake, and you immediately resort to name-calling. That proves without a doubt that you have lost this argument. My point, clarified, is wondering why you even responded to me when I directed my post at someone else. Sure, you can get involved, but you completely dominated the conversation from the start and have only made it personal attacks and semantics.

Did I not, in previous posts, agree that Slowpoke was legendary? Not a legendary in the form of the word that most people are throwing around nowadays to describe ubers, but still a pokemon of legendary qualities.

You did not. I'm sure that everyone here can agree with me that you discounted Slowpoke as a legendary.

You said, and I quote: The citizens of Azalea Town can cry me a river because Slowpoke is not a legendary.

Please don't try to use "I said a legendary, not legendary" as an argument, because there really is no difference.

I haven't changed my perspective at all and yet you seem to be mostly agreeing with me. Why don't you stop trying to lump other people's arguements into this and call them mine just because you seem to be losing yours? Not in any physical ways, but in the way people percieve them, Slowpoke is legendary the same way as Seabicuit, tangible, something the people can see and touch, whereas Mew is legendary in the way Nessy is. One is there for the people and has a legend about it, and one is not there and all the people have is a legend.
God, why do I have the feeling you're still not going to understand anything I'm saying? I'm better off explaining this to my dog.
I never discredited Slopoke and the others on the basis of competitive battling or anime movies. Stop putting words in my mouth.

Are you talking about Seabiscuit, that horse in the movie they made a few years back? Okay, no. Slowpoke is not comparable to a horse that won a race or two. Nor is Mew comparable to the Loch Ness Monster... No legends have been made concerning the Loch Ness Monster (except one, which was basically the church doing an excorcism), so it cannot be used as an example.

Bigfoot, maybe, because various Native American groups have attributed it with the powers of invisibility and spirit. That could certainly make a comparison to Mew, the Mirage Pokemon.

You see, the various legendaries are not based on cryptids. Cryptids are more akin to urban legends involving microwaving a dog than god-like, culturally-significant legendaries. The Pokemon legendaries are quite obviously based on similiar things in human mythology/culture: Ho-Oh and Moltres as a phoenix, Jirachi as a djinn, Celebi as a fairy, etc. Those figures in human perception were titans of nature or the world itself, and variously interpreted as gods. They held significance greater than just "Hey, look. There's a phoenix." If someone saw a phoenix in China/Japan, they'd bow down to it. No one's going to bow down to the Loch Ness Monster or Bigfoot.

 

[Curt_09]

Okay guys, no need to get worked up or anything, it's just a discussion XD Try not to take things so personally or offensively, and try to be courteous and polite to others, thanks :]

Sorry, I tried.

Redstar, all I tried to do was make sure that ordinary everyday pokemon like Spirtomb, Arcanine, and Slowpoke aren't regarded on the same level as Mew and Ho-oh. Manatees were once thought to be mermaids and were actually the basis of the Sirens in Greek mythology. Over the millenia millions of dogs have saved their owners' lives. I'm not going to call either of these legendary creatures the same way I would cryptids or the Greek and Egyptian gods.
I can call my dog a dirty mutt and it is not namecalling, it is a statement of fact. I can call you an idiot and it is not namecalling. Quoting someone else and saying it was me is your idea of a trap? Yep, you really got me there. Nice one. [/sarcasm]
You're the one who turned this into some kind of arguement. You want it to be some kind of contest with a winner and a loser? Fine.
I admit defeat. Congratulations, this was an idiot contest.

Edit; I'm tired of coming back here and I really don't feel like arguing this anymore.
Sorry Redstar and whatever else you want to hear.
I'm done here. All hail the Slowpoke.

 

[Redstar]

Sorry, I tried.

Redstar, all I tried to do was make sure that ordinary everyday pokemon like Spirtomb, Arcanine, and Slowpoke aren't regarded on the same level as Mew and Ho-oh. Manatees were once thought to be mermaids and were actually the basis of the Sirens in Greek mythology. Over the millenia millions of dogs have saved their owners' lives. I'm not going to call either of these legendary creatures the same way I would cryptids or the Greek and Egyptian gods.
I can call my dog a dirty mutt and it is not namecalling, it is a statement of fact. I can call you an idiot and it is not namecalling. Quoting someone else and saying it was me is your idea of a trap? Yep, you really got me there. Nice one. [/sarcasm]
You're the one who turned this into some kind of arguement. You want it to be some kind of contest with a winner and a loser? Fine.
I admit defeat. Congratulations, this was an idiot contest.

Oh, wow, you tried? And what did you try to do? Because from where I am you haven't had any stance at all. I never once made this out to be some battle of wits or a win-or-lose game. I was just discussing something that people generally don't look into enough.

I never stated that Slowpoke or Arcanine should be on the same level as Mew or Ho-Oh, but in the context of the games they are, in fact, "legendary". There are many kinds of legends, myths, and rumours that perpetuate to this day in the real world and to flatly dismiss any such similarity in the world of Pokemon is sheer ignorance. Yes, Slowpoke may not have created the world or have the power to slice mountains in half, but that does not mean there is no enigma in being a local legend. Any Pokemon, rare or not, can have a history and cultural significance. Rats are deeply respected in some parts of India. There is no doubt in my mind that Raticate or others could have the same treatement.

But you never once agreed that anything but the main pantheon of legendaries were "legendary". You dismissed that. If you can find and quote any example in your own previous posts where you admitted that they were, then I'll concede agreement.

Oh, and calling someone an idiot is namecalling. How is it not?

 

[Fishyman]

Curt, you may as well stop. You're digging yourself deeper and deeper and it's making you look like an idiot.

Oh wait, you are an idiot, but I'm not calling you a name or anything.