ORAS Team Help (doubles)

[Zagan]

Hiya guys, havent been on here in a long time, but im back now :D

With this team im looking to improve in doubles mainly and to develop a better play style then i currently have - the core of this team is Gliscor, Beedrill and Guardevoir
Anyway - I was wondering if some kind souls may be able to help me with my team, as it currently stands is:

Gliscor (Impish)
Poison Heal
Toxic Orb
IVs: Max all
EVs: 252 hp, 200 speed, 56 dep
Roost
Fling
Earthquake
Acrobatics

Pangoro (adamant)
Iron Fist
Leftovers
IVs: Max all
EVs: 252 attack, 126 hp, 126 speed
Drain Punch
Gunk Shot
Knock Off
Swords Dance

Beedrill (Mega) (Jolly)
Swarm/technician
Beedrillite
IVs: Max all
EVs: 252 attack, 252 speed
Poison Jab
U-turn
Protect
Knock Off

Goodra (calm)
Gooey
Assault Vest
IVs: Max all
EVs: 252 hp , 252 sp atk
Thunder bolt
Flamethrower
Ice Beam
Dragon Pulse

Chandelure (timid)
Flash Fire
Choice Scarf
IVs: Max all
EVs: 252 speed, 252 sp atk
Shadow Ball
Energy Ball
Flamethrower
Dark Pulse

Guardevoir (Timid)
Telepathy
Life Orb
IVs: Max all
EVs: 252 speed, 252 sp atk
Will-o-wisp
MoonBlast
Psychic
Protect

Again ty for you advice and suggestions :D

 

[skyburial]

So, some things I've noticed:

Since you only run Protect on two Pokemon, a few fast Rock Slides should take out most of your team.

Your team as it stands is bird bait. Mega Beedrill's only real offensive drawback is that it does not have access to priority, and most of your team is frail on the physical side, with the exceptions of Pangoro, who is weak to Brave Bird, and Gliscor, which has no effective STAB against Flying types.

Your walls are a bit better suited to singles in that they answer either physical or special attacks. The problem with that approach in doubles is that you will hardly ever be on the field against a pair that is one or the other - many strong pairs comprise of a physical Pokemon and a special one.

Momentum. You have no real method of Speed control (other than Gooey which requires baiting), such as Icy Wind, Trick Room, Tailwind, or Thunder Wave, no answers to Fake Out, no Taunt users to deter Pranksters, and nothing to punish Intimidate.

For starters, I'd recommend swapping out your Pangoro for one of these guys:

Scrafty @ Lum Berry
Nature: Adamant
Ability: Intimidate
248 HP/252 Atk/8 SpD
- Fake Out
- Drain Punch
- Knock Off
- Ice Punch/Snarl (but probably Ice Punch for Landorus-T)

I think I see what your Chandelure does and would actually recommend running a Heatran in its place. You can benchmark a Heatran's speed to take out other Heatran if you want, or give it some bulk in the HP stat depending on your risk appetite, but this is the most effective way I've seen it used in the format:

Heatran @ Leftovers
Nature: Modest
Ability: Flash Fire
X HP/252 SpA/X SpD
- Heat Wave
- Earth Power
- Substitute/Flash Cannon
- Protect

Also, Muddy Water would be a better choice on your Goodra over Ice Beam. It has superior coverage and still handles most of the threats that Dragon Pulse doesn't.

 

[PlatinumDude]

EVs must be divisible by 4 for them to take effect. 126 isn't divisible by 4. There's also no need to say each Pokemon's IVs.

Gliscor doesn't have much utility in doubles outside of tanking hits with its good Defense. Even though Therian Landorus is less bulkier than Gliscor, it brings much more doubles utility to the table because of Intimidate weakening both opponents at once. It's also a good check to Talonflame:
-Earthquake
-Rock Slide
-U-turn
-Superpower/Knock Off/Stone Edge
Nature: Adamant
EVs: 4 HP/252 Atk/252 Spe
Item: Choice Scarf

or
-Earthquake
-Rock Slide
-U-turn/Superpower/Knock Off
-Protect/U-turn
Nature: Adamant
EVs: 4 HP/252 Atk/252 Spe
Item: Life Orb/Focus Sash/Assault Vest

What I said about Gliscor also applies to Pangoro. It doesn't have the bulk to set up Swords Dance effectively, due to the fast pace of the doubles format. Scrafty is a better Pokemon to use in doubles formats like this because of again, Intimidate:
-Fake Out
-Knock Off
-Drain Punch
-Protect/Taunt/Ice Punch
Nature: Careful
EVs: 252 HP/164 Atk/92 SDef
Item: Lum Berry/Sitrus Berry/Assault Vest
Ability: Intimidate

Latias is a better support Dragon to turn to than Goodra because it has access to good support moves in doubles:
-Draco Meteor
-Psyshock/Psychic
-Helping Hand/Tailwind/Icy Wind/Heal Pulse
-Protect
Nature: Timid
EVs: 4 HP/252 SAtk/252 Spe
Item: Life Orb

This team is pretty much wrecked by Talonflame outside of Therian Landorus. Consider Wash Rotom over Chandelure, as it resists both of Talonflame's STABs:
-Thunderbolt
-Hydro Pump
-Will-o-Wisp
-Protect/Rest
Nature: Modest
EVs: 252 HP/44 Def/212 SAtk
Item: Sitrus Berry/Chesto Berry

 

[skyburial]

Not to disagree but moreso in the spirit of team synergy, if you go with Rotom-Wash over Heatran, I'd recommend running Volt Switch over Thunderbolt, as it synergizes well with Landorus-T and Mega Bee to make a VoltTurn core.

 

[PlatinumDude]

Not to disagree but moreso in the spirit of team synergy, if you go with Rotom-Wash over Heatran, I'd recommend running Volt Switch over Thunderbolt, as it synergizes well with Landorus-T and Mega Bee to make a VoltTurn core.

Wash Rotom would rather stay in to counter Talonflame, so Thunderbolt is the more reliable option to beat on it, as it doesn't force Wash Rotom out or risk missing.

 

[skyburial]

Wash Rotom would rather stay in to counter Talonflame, so Thunderbolt is the more reliable option to beat on it, as it doesn't force Wash Rotom out or risk missing.

Right, however, Hydro Pump is one of the few moves in the meta that a bulky Talonflame struggles to take (it has to pick between an OHKO to Rock Slide or Hydro Pump), and if a Volt Switch doesn't pick up the critical kill, an Intimidate from Landorus-T will further weaken any attempts of a Brave Bird sweep.

It's a sacrifice, but not a very big one considering the things that Mega Bee already takes care of. Plus, a slow Volt Switch is the best Volt Switch for Mega Beedrill, and Rotom-W has that going for it.

 

[Polar Spectrum]

Heya! Glad you've come back from wherever and are interested in doubles :D

Few quick suggestions, and they're just that-

Gliscor can do stuff in dubs either offensively or defensively, your fling and acrobatics bit is kinda neat and I like it - especially since it lets it toxic something even if it's taunted - but if you're doin' toxic heal gliscor with speed and HP, you really ought to consider taking Protect over roost. Toxic heal is already nice healing, y'know? And it'd survive a lot longer if it could protect and ice beam / scald / hydro pump / etc as opposed to just being able to recover 50% (which is less than all the above moves deal off of viable users) of its health as a move. Protect over Roost is my advice on Gliscor -

For Pangoro, something similar - it already hits fairly hard (the targets it wants to hit anyways) without swords dance. And despite my low opinion of Platinum Dude's doubles experience, he is right that Pangoro doesn't uuuuusually have the situation to set up swords dance in doubles. Even if it does, it's still not too fast, and is not gonna take just about any fairy attack. Not to mention it's weak to flying and fighting :c So once again, protect as an option might be better over Swords Dance in particular, and if you want more bite without a setup move, try something simple life Like Orb or Muscle band. Expert belt is even viable; given its nice dual stabs and poison coverage for fairies.

Mega Beedrill seems fine. That's the standard set with Knock off over drill run. Drill run may be something for you to consider, but knock off isn't a bad choice either imo. But remember; beedrill doesn't wanna bother things- he needs to OHKO them because he sure as hell ain't taking a single hit back lol

Goodra - looks fine. Only thing I might change is make it modest. Maybe. And throw in Sludge Bomb for fairies, if you're worried about that. Run a calc on specs sylveon and mega gardevoir hyper voices; sludge bomb may be viable just for them. They're common in doubles :I

Interesting Chandelure, could be neat. I might change out Flash Fire for Flame body though; as it doesn't have a teammate who's weak to fire and thus an easy switch for. Annnnd the burn from an obvious sucker punch / aqua jet / etc could help out. Unreliable but it's there.

Your Gardevoir seems kinda interesting, buuuut yo I'd reeeeally really consider putting Trace over Telepathy. First off, the only thing applicable for Telepathy you have is Gliscor's earthquake. Secondly, Trace can give you an opponent's intimidate; speed boost; thick fat; etc etc et. Tons of great abilities can be traced unintentionally - including levitate, which would give it immunity to not only your own gliscors eq like telepathy would, but opponent's eq's. Trace just, has a lot more Shenanigans potential in doubles.

But yeah, if you ever wanna test this out and you're on cartridge hit me up :D I'd be glad to give your team a test run sometime.

 

[Zagan]

Hiya all, thanks for the suggestions and advice, deffo a lot to take on board, after reading through the comments and looking at my current team, I deffo think Pangoro should be swapped for scrafty (at least to test out) and same with items :)

I think ill swap Roost for Protect, they are both TM moves so i can easily swap around

Personally I am not keen on using the popular mons like Landours - T and Talonflame (I am aware of why they are used lots) but its not my thing hence my current set up (well okay maybe the Gliscor is a bit common)

Thinking about it, I see what you mean with Guardevoir - I remember having lots of fun with trace Porygon 2 :P

If i were to take out the Chandelure and Goodra - any other mons worth having a second look at? (I dont mind if they dont share typings with Chand and Good, just not something i already have :D)

Again thank you for your continuing help

And Polar, sure My FC is 5198 3864 6538

 

[skyburial]

I think Hydreigon would make a good replacement for Goodra. You're mostly using Goodra as a special tank and Hydra's typing kindly bends to serve that purpose. Mega Beedrill is a demon against Fairies so you can count that 4X weakness out as a threat. And it learns Tailwind if you're up for sacrificing a coverage move for speed control (Tailwind is a less common choice than Earth Power, Fire Blast and Flamethrower).

What do you like the most about your Chandelure? Is it Flash Fire's negation of Fire-type moves, the specially offensive presence, the coverage, or the immunity to Fighting-type moves?

 

[Zagan]

Mostly the immunity to fire and fighting types, in an old doubles set up my front pair would be Chand and Electravire, the Vire being faster and fire punching the chand to get that initial boost

 

[skyburial]

Clever. If you're into that strategy you might want to try the infamous Terracott/Terravile strategy, which involves using Beat Up on Terrakion with Weavile or Whimsicott to give it +3 attack thanks to Justified.

Just my 2c. It's terrifying.

 

[Zagan]

Yeah I remember when that was quite a thing tbh lol - not really something im in to so to speak, i just thought it was a novel idea :P Though I do like the Idea of Hydragon

 

[Zagan]

Gliscor (Impish)
Poison Heal
Toxic Orb
IVs: Max all
EVs: 252 hp, 200 speed, 56 dep
protect
Fling
Earthquake
Acrobatics

Beedrill (Mega) (Jolly)
Swarm/technician
Beedrillite
IVs: Max all
EVs: 252 attack, 252 speed
Poison Jab
U-turn
Protect
Knock Off

Scrafty @ Lum Berry
Nature: Adamant
Ability: Intimidate
248 HP/252 Atk/8 SpD
- Fake Out
- Drain Punch
- Knock Off
- Ice Punch

hydreigon (Timid)
Life Orb
Levitate
EVs
4 Atk ,252 SpA, 252 Spe
Draco Meteor
Dark Pulse
Superpower
Roost

Im not sure about Guardevoir in this line up, but i feel like i need another mon to help counter the two monsters with a 4x weakness to fairy as it seems a common type, I was thinking a powerful steel or poison type

 

[skyburial]

Powerful Poison types are hard to come by, imo. Are you still hard set on no legendaries? Because Heatran would be pretty great on this team.

 

[Zagan]

Im not against the use of legends, So yeah - Heatran is an option, and i feel like with scrafty, im only trying to just jam intimidate in for the sake of it as opposed to make actual use of it, if that makes any sense? ill have a first draft of this team some time tomorrow to start testing