5th Gen Platform Discussion

[Pac-Man1096]

3DS

I really do hope that the new game is for the 3DS only. It could allow for many enhancements, including 3D Pokemon Battles. I also had an interesting idea involving the StreetPass functionality.

Using the C-Gear, you can ask a player a question and when they respond, you could see their answer, correct? What if this was done during StreetPass. You accept the survey and you walk around with your 3DS. When it meets another 3DS with the same game, the anwser is automaticly transfered if during the game you already answered the question (preanswered).

 

[GibbyGibson]

While I don't think it will be on the 3DS, that is just what I think, and not my wish. I do wish it would be on the 3DS while using as many of the enhancements that the system contains.

This would also give me a reason to actually get my lazy butt of my chair and actually pick up a 3DS. XD

GibbyGibson

 

[Dr. Montague]

I'd enjoy it being for the 3DS, as I feel the online capabilities would be better. However, the main issue I'm wondering about is whether they'll use sprites or 3D models. I mean, since they have almost every Unova Pokemon in Pokedex 3D and nearly anything else in the recent Wii games (Pokepark, Pokepark 2, and PBR) it would make sense to use those on a 3D system.

However, if they really did want to stick to sprites, would the 3DS be able to project a different sprite to each eye, to give the feel of the Black/White, but still effectively make use of the 3DS's technology?

 

[wombateiro]

I think they would stick to sprites because of fact that most of Hoenn Pokemon got completely new or similar to 3 gen's sprites in B/W. Other gen's Pokemon got sprites copied from gen 4 (most of them).

Those animated sprites from B/W probably took a lot of effort during development, so maybe that's why they decided to make those new Hoenn's sprites already in B/W, to skip effort during R/S remakes development.

 

[The 100 Mega Shock]

Woah, hold on. The 3DS screen is higher resolution than the DS - the sprites from B/W would look far too small for a 3DS game. The DS had a larger screen resolution than the GBA, so they drew bigger sprites for every Pokémon in D/P. The 3DS has an even larger increase in screen resolution.

You can't just press a button and make sprites larger and more detailed - they have to be individually redrawn by the artists. This is why I'm saying they can't keep using sprites anymore.

 

[pokewalker]

[SIZE="a"]I guess they'd make it multiplatform. Both for DS, iOS and Android.[/SIZE]

 

[wombateiro]

Woah, hold on. The 3DS screen is higher resolution than the DS - the sprites from B/W would look far too small for a 3DS game. The DS had a larger screen resolution than the GBA, so they drew bigger sprites for every Pokémon in D/P. The 3DS has an even larger increase in screen resolution.

You can't just press a button and make sprites larger and more detailed - they have to be individually redrawn by the artists. This is why I'm saying they can't keep using sprites anymore.

So maybe it means Grey and R/S remakes are going to be for DS. Otherwise, why would they have focused so much on making completely new or redrawn from gen 3 Hoenn's sprites? No other region's Pokemon sprites got redone in such quantity. Also almost all Hoenn's redone sprites are impossible to see during the single player game, simply because Pokemon with redone sprites don't appear at any point of game. I mean that they usually remake sprites for Pokemon important to game's storyline (Kanto's sprites in FR/LG, Johto's and Kanto's in HG/SS). Almost all remade Hoenn's sprites have no role in B/W, so they must be saved for R/S remakes. Following pattern from previous remakes, they should use remade sprites only in their game's remake, but like I posted before, they probably decided to remade those sprites already in B/W for not too much effort of making another large group of animated sprites.
Of course some Hoenn's gen 4 sprites are copied but IMO only the best looking ones.

 

[Ho-Oh]

I guess they'd make it multiplatform. Both for DS, iOS and Android.

Uhhh, why would they make it for Apple & Android? For one, it'd take forever to download the app and I'm sure it'd have to cost waaaaay more than the normal 99 cent apps. PLUS, it'd be smaller than the real thing (who'd wanna pay $30 for a game you can already get on your DS w/ all the extra features?) and I'm not sure the graphics would necessary render as great as they would on the 3DS or DS :x I'm sure there's a lot more reasons but they don't come to mind rn. But ya, really doubt that.

 

[pokewalker]

[SIZE="a"]

I guess they'd make it multiplatform. Both for DS, iOS and Android.

Uhhh, why would they make it for Apple & Android? For one, it'd take forever to download the app and I'm sure it'd have to cost waaaaay more than the normal 99 cent apps. PLUS, it'd be smaller than the real thing (who'd wanna pay $30 for a game you can already get on your DS w/ all the extra features?) and I'm not sure the graphics would necessary render as great as they would on the 3DS or DS :x I'm sure there's a lot more reasons but they don't come to mind rn. But ya, really doubt that.

It wouldn't take forever to download, considering b/w are 256 mb and gray would be 300 itd take like 15 minutes. Way quicker than gojng to the shop. And graphics would only look better, looking at the iphone 4s and ipad 2's dual core processor. Have you seen infinity blade 2 on there? Yeah. Better than the 3DS. Oh, and most great games on the app store cost 7 dollars, its the standard price there. And ib2 was a million project and they still got profit, so why not pokemon?[/SIZE]

 

[The 100 Mega Shock]

lol, the iPhone and high-end Android phones are actually a lot more powerful than the 3DS - especially because they're not wasting power trying to display 3D images (Except that gimmicky HTC thing)

From a technical standpoint, the Pokémon series is perfectly designed for smartphones because it's a game that doesn't need more than touchscreen input and the occasional gyro controls to do things. Unfortunately Nintendo both doesn't see phones as a platform for meaningful games, and are in no way interested in cannibalising sales of their own hardware by offering major games for competing mobile devices.

Otherwise, why would they have focused so much on making completely new or redrawn from gen 3 Hoenn's sprites? No other region's Pokemon sprites got redone in such quantity

Because all those other Pokemon had new sprites in either Platinum or HG/SS. Can a developer not do something just for the love of their craft? (Re-using the same sprites for four games in four years does not look professional.) Besides, doing something like drawing graphics over two years in advance is a very strange thing to do.

 

[pokewalker]

[SIZE="a"]

lol, the iPhone and high-end Android phones are actually a lot more powerful than the 3DS - especially because they're not wasting power trying to display 3D images (Except that gimmicky HTC thing)

From a technical standpoint, the Pokémon series is perfectly designed for smartphones because it's a game that doesn't need more than touchscreen input and the occasional gyro controls to do things.

Unfortunately Nintendo both doesn't see smartphones as a platform for meaningful games, and are in no way interested in cannibalising sales of their own hardware by offering major games for competing mobile devices.

Yeah, that's the only problem there is so far.
Funny is how a lot of DS developers want to step over to iOS developing: but due to their contract with Nintendo they aren't allowed to.
Personally I think they're only waiting. In the near future, we will
1) see Nintendo developing mobile games
2) nobody knows about nintendo any more
This is because iOS is killing the DS. And PS3 is killing the wii... A recently released pie chart showed that ios was good for 60% of mobile gaming, ds 35% and psp 15% or something among those lines.
In other words, iOS & Android are the future of mobile gaming.[/SIZE]

 

[Dr. Montague]

[SIZE="a"]

Yeah, that's the only problem there is so far.
Funny is how a lot of DS developers want to step over to iOS developing: but due to their contract with Nintendo they aren't allowed to.
Personally I think they're only waiting. In the near future, we will
1) see Nintendo developing mobile games
2) nobody knows about nintendo any more
This is because iOS is killing the DS. And PS3 is killing the wii... A recently released pie chart showed that ios was good for 60% of mobile gaming, ds 35% and psp 15% or something among those lines.
In other words, iOS & Android are the future of mobile gaming.

Pretending that iOS is only used for mobile gaming, as well as pretending that iOS users only use that, and are not in possession of a dedicated handheld gaming device as well as a multimedia one.

Based on the 3DS holiday season sales, Nintendo doesn't seem to be in trouble (Sources Here and Here) so there's no reason why Game Freak, who has an incredibly large majority of its success on Nintendo's handheld platforms (namely Pokemon) would move its main series games onto iOS and Android.

It's extremely unlikely for the 3rd version to be put on a non-Nintendo platform. However, most of the debate comes as to which Nintendo handheld it'll be.

And as of the beginning of 2010, I wouldn't say 125 million units are being killed by the iOS

 

[The 100 Mega Shock]

Well nobody said move, we were talking about expanding scope. A move that benefits every party but Nintendo.

 

[pokewalker]

[SIZE="a"]

[SIZE="a"]

Yeah, that's the only problem there is so far.
Funny is how a lot of DS developers want to step over to iOS developing: but due to their contract with Nintendo they aren't allowed to.
Personally I think they're only waiting. In the near future, we will
1) see Nintendo developing mobile games
2) nobody knows about nintendo any more
This is because iOS is killing the DS. And PS3 is killing the wii... A recently released pie chart showed that ios was good for 60% of mobile gaming, ds 35% and psp 15% or something among those lines.
In other words, iOS & Android are the future of mobile gaming.

Pretending that iOS is only used for mobile gaming, as well as pretending that iOS users only use that, and are not in possession of a dedicated handheld gaming device as well as a multimedia one.

Based on the 3DS holiday season sales, Nintendo doesn't seem to be in trouble (Sources Here and Here) so there's no reason why Game Freak, who has an incredibly large majority of its success on Nintendo's handheld platforms (namely Pokemon) would move its main series games onto iOS and Android.

It's extremely unlikely for the 3rd version to be put on a non-Nintendo platform. However, most of the debate comes as to which Nintendo handheld it'll be.

And as of the beginning of 2010, I wouldn't say 125 million units are being killed by the iOS

Nintendo isn't in trouble. Yet.
First off all, the DS is, just like iOS and the PSP, a mobile gaming console. It may be a handheld, sure, but then iOS and the PSP are, too.
And you're talking about 2010. The data I mentioned was late 2011... If you didn't know, Apple sold 37 MILLION iphones in 3 months. 37x 3 is 111 million in 9 months! Not talking about the iPods and iPads! Oh yeah, Samsung also sold 35 million phones in 3 months. Beat that Nintendo! And yeah, I agree that they won't do it in the third game, but I HIGHLY see them doing it in the near future. Especially Pokemon Ranger.(sorry for offtopic)
Speaking of which, Im now playing through emerald on my iPod and it plays better than any pokemon game I've ever played before.[/SIZE]

 

[wombateiro]

Because all those other Pokemon had new sprites in either Platinum or HG/SS. Can a developer not do something just for the love of their craft? (Re-using the same sprites for four games in four years does not look professional.)

I didn't add that there is another curious thing about Hoenn's sprites in B/W. Most of obtainable in B/W Hoenn Pokemon have the same sprites in every game since D/P, so that means their sprites were being re-used for four games in row. Those Pokemon are: Seedot, Slakoth, Wailord, Zangoose, Lunatone, Solrock, Anorith, Shuppet, Relicanth.

The curious thing is that those Pokemon should get completely new sprites in B/W first, because they are the ones which most B/W players will see during the single game, but they didn't get those sprites for some reason. I guess those Pokemon would get their new sprites in R/S remakes for DS. Or for 3DS, if they decide to redraw all sprites.

Anyway, if they will use 3d models instead of sprites, it would be weird to never see sprite version of new Kyurem's form.

 

[wombateiro]

And?

Your hypothesis is an overanalysis at best.

I meant that those Hoenn Pokemon which appear in B/W single game didn't get new sprites while those which don't appear, did get new sprites already, because they can't be seen in B/W single game.

So I think in R/S remakes those "old-sprite" Hoenn Pokemon will get their new sprites, to make them look "new" during single game. The rest of Hoenn Pokemon will look "new" too, becasue their sprites have been already remade.

 

[Rivin]

When people really like a certain game, they tend to pay for things if it means they get to play their favourite game.
Do you really want them to make a handicapped game that lives up to none of the potential of the 3DS, just so you can still play it on your 7 years old DS?

Uh, No, most people don't. Anyone who buys a system for one game only, either has way too much money on their hands, or mommy and daddy are footing the bill.

The fact remains, that anyone buying a 3DS and (for the sake of simplicity, lets just call it grey.) "grey" will be spending AT LEAST 200$ for one video game and most regular people like myself, cannot afford that kind of price for a video game (our favorite or not). It doesn't matter if it's our favorite series, because whilst the pokemon fanbase may vary from children to adults, most adults have other priorities... We have things like rent, food, electricity, and etc. to worry about. I'm not saying it is impossible "grey" will be on the 3DS either.. I mean believe it or not, GameFreak as a whole could cares more about selling more copies of their own creation than helping Nintendo sell a few extra 3DS' consoles... They will lose sales if it is released purely on the 3DS and they are acutely aware of that fact.

And how would making the game similarly to Black and White be "handicapping" it? Changing from sprites to 3D would destroy any relation the game would have to B/W beyond it's namesake and could potentially alienate fans who enjoy Pokemon's sprite art. It's just senseless to make such drastic artistic changes in the middle of a generation.. They could possibly move to 3DS (like crystal did to Color), but even if they did, they wouldn't inact such drastic changes, so it'd be pointless to exclude a part of the fanbase and not make many changes...

So I believe (and hope) it will be released on the DS to include members of the fanbase and keep with the spirit of the original releases, and that the 6th gen will be released on the 3DS with more stylistic changes capitalizing on the 3DS' hardware perks. (Especially since the hardware will be more accessible to the general population by the time the game is slated to release because of price drops...)

 

[The 100 Mega Shock]

Trying to make two games at once is handicapping yourselves.

If what you're saying is the case, why did Nintendo release Mario, Mario Kart and Zelda on the 3DS and not the DS? Game Freak can't publish Pokémon games themselves. They work alongside Nintendo in order to produce and finance a Pokémon game, so naturally some of Nintendo's desires will be imparted onto each game. After all, Nintendo has the last say on who is allowed to release a game for what. As well as this, Pokémon is a major brand with a slew of different aspects (and managed by more than one company), so Game Freak certainly don't exist in a vacuum when it comes to making decisions about the future of Pokémon.

I think you're over-exaggerating about graphics. Between Mario, Zelda, Final Fantasy, Dragon Quest and a host of other popular Nintendo titles and RPG titles in general have made the jump to 3D graphics without "alienating" people. Look at Fire Emblem 3DS and Golden Sun: Dark Dawn - two series of handheld RPGs that were known for good sprite graphics. They made the jump from sprites to 3D graphics to acclaim, not criticism, so why should Pokémon be any different?

(If anything, dramatically overhauling the game's graphics is an excellent idea to help convince people that Grey is more than just an expensive re-tread of a game they already bought last year. Nobody can deny that Pokémon is not a series that makes constant innovations.)

People aren't made of money and I'm sorry I can't fix that. But that same argument could be said back before Ruby and Sapphire came out for the GBA, and before Diamond and Pearl came out for the DS. What's different about it now, and why should Nintendo be expected to continue releasing games for obsolete systems when they didn't before?

Those Pokemon are: Seedot, Slakoth, Wailord, Zangoose, Lunatone, Solrock, Anorith, Shuppet, Relicanth.

The link here is that their D/P sprites were all based on their original reference art (Except Wailord but his art isn't appropriate to be used as a sprite). There's nothing else for the artists to use, so their B/W sprites are based on the same pose but still noticeably re-drawn and re-shaded. They're not identical.

Or they just ran out of time to make a brand new sprite. (Gee I wonder why seven artists couldn't manage drawing and animating over a thousand sprites. Surely there's no trend to be gained from the increasing amount of 3D artists working on the games and the decreasing amount of 2D artists?)

 

[Rivin]

Trying to make two games at once is handicapping yourselves.

If what you're saying is the case, why did Nintendo release Mario, Mario Kart and Zelda on the 3DS and not the DS? Game Freak can't publish Pokémon games themselves. They work alongside Nintendo in order to produce and finance a Pokémon game, so naturally some of Nintendo's desires will be imparted onto each game. After all, Nintendo has the last say on who is allowed to release a game for what. As well as this, Pokémon is a major brand with a slew of different aspects (and managed by more than one company), so Game Freak certainly don't exist in a vacuum when it comes to making decisions about the future of Pokémon.

I think you're over-exaggerating about graphics. Between Mario, Zelda, Final Fantasy, Dragon Quest and a host of other popular Nintendo titles and RPG titles in general have made the jump to 3D graphics without "alienating" people. Look at Fire Emblem 3DS and Golden Sun: Dark Dawn - two series of handheld RPGs that were known for good sprite graphics. They made the jump from sprites to 3D graphics to acclaim, not criticism, so why should Pokémon be any different?

(If anything, dramatically overhauling the game's graphics is an excellent idea to help convince people that Grey is more than just an expensive re-tread of a game they already bought last year. Nobody can deny that Pokémon is not a series that makes constant innovations.)

People aren't made of money and I'm sorry I can't fix that. But that same argument could be said back before Ruby and Sapphire came out for the GBA, and before Diamond and Pearl came out for the DS. What's different about it now, and why should Nintendo be expected to continue releasing games for obsolete systems when they didn't before?




The link here is that their D/P sprites were all based on their original reference art (Except Wailord but his art isn't appropriate to be used as a sprite). There's nothing else for the artists to use, so their B/W sprites are based on the same pose but still noticeably re-drawn and re-shaded. They're not identical.

Or they just ran out of time to make a brand new sprite. (Gee I wonder why seven artists couldn't manage drawing and animating over a thousand sprites. Surely there's no trend to be gained from the increasing amount of 3D artists working on the games and the decreasing amount of 2D artists?)

I was simply speaking for the 5th generation of titles. And why is that? If people buy them why does it matter? Would they rather make money with a multi release or lose money on a 3DS release? And the difference between speaking of GBC or GBA or DS was that none of them cost four times the price of a game even after price drops... Essentially I was saying that they should probably release title on the console that the majority uses not the console that the rich minority uses or their sales will suffer as people will just wait until they CAN afford the console. And the Mario games and etc. aren't comparable to the console jump because of the differences that lie in the games themselves. I'm not saying it's impossible, but it's not a smart move to exclude the majority of your customers... My main point was directed at the statements:

"When people really like a certain game, they tend to pay for things if it means they get to play their favourite game. Do you really want them to make a handicapped game that lives up to none of the potential of the 3DS, just so you can still play it on your 7 years old DS?"

Because the first statement is a generalization that only the rich and/or spoiled can attest to, and the second is simply ignorant. How can one assume a game would be "handicapped" just because it was build similarly to the games it is based off of? That makes no sense... Also, a system isn't "obsolete" if games are still being made for the system....

 

[Editman]

Given the nature of the Internet, your job here will be to provide a source.

That made me Lol' for some reason.

Anyways, I hope a third games comes out period. Considering the third games usually has elements of both games. I always felt like i was missing something playing Black over white.