Please rate my "Power of the Grace" team

TriforceCourage

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    Okay so this team is based off of using Serene Grace to boost effect likeliness. This is for Rating Doubles so i can use Jirachi.
    Im using 3 different Serene Grace pokes:

    Togekiss @ Life Orb
    Ability: Serene Grace
    - Air Slash
    - Thunder Wave
    - Roost
    - Dazzling Gleam
    Nature: Modest
    Evs 252 SpA/252 Sp/4 Hp
    This is my sweeper set. I have 2 other bulky Serene Grace pokes so i needed a sweeper.

    Chansey @ Eviolite
    Ability: Serene Grace
    -Soft Boiled
    -Seismic Toss
    -Stealth Rock
    -Thunder Wave/Toxic
    Nature: Bold
    Evs 252 Def/252 SpD/4 Hp

    Bulky poke #1 chose this cause this is dependant on keeping Serene Grace on the field and who better but Chansey on steroids?

    Dunsparce @ Leftovers
    Ability: Serene Grace
    -Glare
    -Rock Slide
    -Headbutt
    -Roost
    Nature: Careful
    Evs 252 Def/252 Hp/4 SpD

    Bulky poke #2 again same concept as Chansey but more capable of taking out pokes whole staying in there. I chose to invest in Defense more cause of Fighing weakness such as Meinshao and MegaBlaziken, also i can take a few hits from Garchomp as well. Now onto the non serene gracers

    Honchkrow @ Scope Lens
    Ability: Super Luck
    -Sucker Punch
    -Foul Play
    -Brave Bird
    -Steel Wing/Night Slash
    Nature: Adamant
    Evs 252 Atk/252 Sp/4 Hp

    Gotta love the Lucky Scopes Krow, high crit ratio and nice movesets, only thing is i cant decide weather or not to keep steel wing or night slash, night slash is a guarantee crit with serene grace, scopes, and Super luck, and it has field covrage but i already have 2 other dark type moves so not sure, what do you think?

    Nidoking @ Choice Band
    Ability: Poison Point
    -Earthquake
    -Poison Jab
    -Megahorn
    -Stone Edge
    Nature: Adamant
    Evs 252 Atk/252 Sp/4 Hp

    Earthquake field coverage STAB, Poison Jab STAB chance to poison and boosted by seren grace, Stone Edge high crit and chance boosted by serene grace and Megahorn for high damage.
    Lastly....

    Aggron @ Aggronite
    Ability: Sturdy
    -Earthquake
    -Thunder Wave
    -Stone Edge
    -Iron Head
    Nature: Impish
    Evs 252 SpD/252 Hp/4 Def

    Earthquake field coverage, Thunder wave to slow em down, iron head to para flinch and STAB, and Stone Edge high crit chance boosted by Serene Grace and STAB. Hes a big metal giant and can handle pretty much anything.

    One question though, does anyone know if Super Luck ability covers the whole field or if it just works on Honchkrow? Other then that rate and comment on my team let me know what you think.
     
    Last edited:
    In doubles, Protect is a staple because it lets you do things like scout for attacks or give a partner time to take out an opponent. Doubles formats are different from singles formats, and the team you're using appears to be geared for Singles. Some moves, like Stealth Rock, are unsuitable for doubles teams.

    The doubles environment is too fast-paced for Togekiss to Roost up, so Protect should be in the last slot. Life Orb also comprises its bulk, so consider giving it Leftovers or Sitrus Berry.

    Natural Cure is the preferred ability on Chansey, as your set currently has no moves to take advantage of Serene Grace whatsoever. Just because something has Serene Grace doesn't mean it should use it. Entry hazards aren't that useful in doubles, since you rarely switch in that environment. Instead of Stealth Rock, you can use Heal Pulse to heal a teammate.

    Honchkrow has no use for Foul Play, as its Attack is rather good enough to let it deal damage on its own:
    -Sucker Punch
    -Brave Bird
    -Night Slash/Superpower/Tailwind
    -Protect
    Nature: Adamant
    EVs: 252 Atk/4 SDef/252 Spe
    Item: Dread Plate/Black Glasses/Charti Berry/Wacan Berry/Sitrus Berry

    Special Nidoking is better than physical Nidoking because virtually all of Nidoking's special moves benefit from Sheer Force, which is the very ability that made Nidoking viable in the first place. Physical Nidoking only has Poison Jab, Rock Slide and the elemental punches as Sheer Force-compatible moves, but they're weaker than Earth Power, Sludge Bomb/Wave and Ice Beam/Thunderbolt/Flamethrower. Also, a Sheer Force-boosted Earth Power outdamages Earthquake. Poison Point is useless in comparison and Nidoking isn't bulky enough to take advantage of it. The below sets may go against the team's purpose, but the way you're currently using Nidoking isn't the most effective way to use it:
    -Sludge Wave/Sludge Bomb
    -Earth Power
    -Ice Beam
    -Protect
    Nature: Timid
    EVs: 4 Def/252 SAtk/252 Spe
    Item: Life Orb
    Ability: Sheer Force

    or
    -Sludge Wave/Sludge Bomb
    -Earth Power
    -Ice Beam/Fire Blast
    -Thunderbolt/Fire Blast
    Nature: Timid/Modest
    EVs: 4 Def/252 SAtk/252 Spe
    Item: Choice Scarf
    Ability: Sheer Force

    I don't think Mega Aggron has a place in doubles, given that it struggles against common spread moves in Earthquake and Heat Wave, even with Filter. Even then, there are better spreaders of Thunder Wave out there, like Meowstic, Klefki Whimsicott (who have Prankster) or Gyarados (who has offensive presence in addition to Intimidate support to help sponge physical hits):

    Meowstic (male):
    -Quick Guard
    -Psychic/Fake Out
    -Safeguard/Charm/Helping Hand
    -Thunder Wave/Charm/Swagger/Helping Hand
    Nature: Calm
    EVs: 252 HP/88 Def/168 SDef
    Item: Mental Herb/Sitrus Berry
    Ability: Prankster

    Klefki:
    -Reflect
    -Light Screen
    -Thunder Wave/Safeguard
    -Foul Play
    Nature: Bold
    EVs: 252 HP/64 Def/192 SDef
    Item: Light Clay
    Ability: Prankster

    or
    -Safeguard
    -Swagger
    -Foul Play
    -Protect/Thunder Wave
    Nature: Calm
    EVs: 252 HP/164 Def/92 SDef
    Item: Sitrus Berry
    Ability: Prankster

    Whimsicott:
    -Tailwind
    -Encore/Taunt
    -Helping Hand/Moonblast/Giga Drain
    -Protect
    Nature: Timid
    EVs: 252 HP/40 Def/216 Spe
    Item: Sitrus Berry/Focus Sash
    Ability: Prankster

    Gyarados:
    -Waterfall
    -Taunt
    -Protect
    -Thunder Wave/Icy Wind
    Nature: Impish
    EVs: 252 HP/208 Def/48 Spe
    Item: Sitrus Berry
    Ability: Intimidate

    Super Luck only works on whoever has the ability; in that case, Honchkrow.
     
    PlatinumDude said:
    In doubles, Protect is a staple because it lets you do things like scout for attacks or give a partner time to take out an opponent. Doubles formats are different from singles formats, and the team you're using appears to be geared for Singles. Some moves, like Stealth Rock, are unsuitable for doubles teams.

    The doubles environment is too fast-paced for Togekiss to Roost up, so Protect should be in the last slot. Life Orb also comprises its bulk, so consider giving it Leftovers or Sitrus Berry.

    Natural Cure is the preferred ability on Chansey, as your set currently has no moves to take advantage of Serene Grace whatsoever. Just because something has Serene Grace doesn't mean it should use it. Entry hazards aren't that useful in doubles, since you rarely switch in that environment. Instead of Stealth Rock, you can use Heal Pulse to heal a teammate.

    Honchkrow has no use for Foul Play, as its Attack is rather good enough to let it deal damage on its own:
    -Sucker Punch
    -Brave Bird
    -Night Slash/Superpower/Tailwind
    -Protect
    Nature: Adamant
    EVs: 252 Atk/4 SDef/252 Spe
    Item: Dread Plate/Black Glasses/Charti Berry/Wacan Berry/Sitrus Berry

    Special Nidoking is better than physical Nidoking because virtually all of Nidoking's special moves benefit from Sheer Force, which is the very ability that made Nidoking viable in the first place. Physical Nidoking only has Poison Jab, Rock Slide and the elemental punches as Sheer Force-compatible moves, but they're weaker than Earth Power, Sludge Bomb/Wave and Ice Beam/Thunderbolt/Flamethrower. Also, a Sheer Force-boosted Earth Power outdamages Earthquake. Poison Point is useless in comparison and Nidoking isn't bulky enough to take advantage of it. The below sets may go against the team's purpose, but the way you're currently using Nidoking isn't the most effective way to use it:
    -Sludge Wave/Sludge Bomb
    -Earth Power
    -Ice Beam
    -Protect
    Nature: Timid
    EVs: 4 Def/252 SAtk/252 Spe
    Item: Life Orb
    Ability: Sheer Force

    or
    -Sludge Wave/Sludge Bomb
    -Earth Power
    -Ice Beam/Fire Blast
    -Thunderbolt/Fire Blast
    Nature: Timid/Modest
    EVs: 4 Def/252 SAtk/252 Spe
    Item: Choice Scarf
    Ability: Sheer Force

    I don't think Mega Aggron has a place in doubles, given that it struggles against common spread moves in Earthquake and Heat Wave, even with Filter. Even then, there are better spreaders of Thunder Wave out there, like Meowstic, Klefki Whimsicott (who have Prankster) or Gyarados (who has offensive presence in addition to Intimidate support to help sponge physical hits):

    Meowstic (male):
    -Quick Guard
    -Psychic/Fake Out
    -Safeguard/Charm/Helping Hand
    -Thunder Wave/Charm/Swagger/Helping Hand
    Nature: Calm
    EVs: 252 HP/88 Def/168 SDef
    Item: Mental Herb/Sitrus Berry
    Ability: Prankster

    Klefki:
    -Reflect
    -Light Screen
    -Thunder Wave/Safeguard
    -Foul Play
    Nature: Bold
    EVs: 252 HP/64 Def/192 SDef
    Item: Light Clay
    Ability: Prankster

    or
    -Safeguard
    -Swagger
    -Foul Play
    -Protect/Thunder Wave
    Nature: Calm
    EVs: 252 HP/164 Def/92 SDef
    Item: Sitrus Berry
    Ability: Prankster

    Whimsicott:
    -Tailwind
    -Encore/Taunt
    -Helping Hand/Moonblast/Giga Drain
    -Protect
    Nature: Timid
    EVs: 252 HP/40 Def/216 Spe
    Item: Sitrus Berry/Focus Sash
    Ability: Prankster

    Gyarados:
    -Waterfall
    -Taunt
    -Protect
    -Thunder Wave/Icy Wind
    Nature: Impish
    EVs: 252 HP/208 Def/48 Spe
    Item: Sitrus Berry
    Ability: Intimidate

    Super Luck only works on whoever has the ability; in that case, Honchkrow.
    Click to expand...

    I think you completly missed the point of my team bro, i agree protect is a wise decision, heal pulse i will proabably make room for, but this team is based off of Serene Grace usage, making the best if the secondary effects. I chose my team as is and its going to stay as is. I dont want other pokes or for you to rebuild my team and im prettu sure i didnt ask for that. Chansey has serene grace because its a serene grace team other wise i would use natural cure. Honchkrow has super luck and scope lens because its attacks are based off high damage and high crit ratio. Aggron may be slow but it packs a huge defense and can take several earthquakes and heat wave hardly touches it, and with my SpD investment it becomes a stable brick wall that makes up for its slow speed. This team is designed to slow down the fast pace doubles and give my pokes time to make use of those serene grace secondary effects. For example:
    1. Aggron can t-wave, both pokes and still have health to use earthquake and/or iron head at least 2 times
    2. Togekiss can out speed pretty much all of its threats while it t-waves or para flinches.
    3. Honchkrow packs a massive punch sweeping out alot of threats with high crit damage.
    4. Chansey sits, stalls, heals, supports, and can maybe deal a bit of damage as it goes with seismic toss.
    5. Dunsparce paraflinches while takes a massive load of damage then roosts and the party starts all over.
    6. Nidoking not so sure about. Honeslty he will probably be replaced for something of better value to my team. It was just something i had scrapped together for testing purposes. Maybe a prankster poke would do. Like sableye to ready for ORAS.
     
    TriforceCourage said:
    I think you completly missed the point of my team bro, i agree protect is a wise decision, heal pulse i will proabably make room for, but this team is based off of Serene Grace usage, making the best if the secondary effects. I chose my team as is and its going to stay as is. I dont want other pokes or for you to rebuild my team and im prettu sure i didnt ask for that. Chansey has serene grace because its a serene grace team other wise i would use natural cure. Honchkrow has super luck and scope lens because its attacks are based off high damage and high crit ratio. Aggron may be slow but it packs a huge defense and can take several earthquakes and heat wave hardly touches it, and with my SpD investment it becomes a stable brick wall that makes up for its slow speed. This team is designed to slow down the fast pace doubles and give my pokes time to make use of those serene grace secondary effects. For example:
    1. Aggron can t-wave, both pokes and still have health to use earthquake and/or iron head at least 2 times
    2. Togekiss can out speed pretty much all of its threats while it t-waves or para flinches.
    3. Honchkrow packs a massive punch sweeping out alot of threats with high crit damage.
    4. Chansey sits, stalls, heals, supports, and can maybe deal a bit of damage as it goes with seismic toss.
    5. Dunsparce paraflinches while takes a massive load of damage then roosts and the party starts all over.
    6. Nidoking not so sure about. Honeslty he will probably be replaced for something of better value to my team. It was just something i had scrapped together for testing purposes. Maybe a prankster poke would do. Like sableye to ready for ORAS.
    Click to expand...
    Serene Grace is a tough play style to build around in doubles. I still get the point of the team; it's just that there are better options than Mega Aggron in doubles formats. The other problem I see with Mega Aggron is that pre-Mega Evolution, it's seriously weak to Fighting, Ground (4x for both) and Water and it can't fit in its STABs, Earthquake, Protect and Thunder Wave all in one set. If you lose Earthquake, you lose out on damaging Steels. If you lose Protect, you lose the ability to Mega Evolve safely. Give up a STAB and you lose coverage. Gyarados is the better alternative over Mega Aggron, as it has a better defensive typing to use without having to Mega Evolve, can spread paralysis with Thunder Wave and cause a potential flinch with Waterfall.

    Given Sableye's mediocre stats all-round, I don't think it's suitable for doubles, as the Fairy weakness it gained is rather nasty. Klefki, Meowstic and Whimsicott are the Prankster users to go to because of their better defensive typing (for Klefki and Whimsicott) or wider utility options in doubles (all three, especially Meowstic).

    I already suggested a better Honchkrow set for this reason alone; you may have missed it: it's strong enough on its own not to rely on Foul Play. The set also has Superpower for hitting Steels harder, or a support option to speed up the team for a while in Tailwind; heck, you can even use Thunder Wave instead for more paralysis. Relying on critical hits as a source of damage isn't good either; you only get them 50% of the time. I forgot to mention this bit: while Steel Wing does give Honchkrow an option to hit Fairies, a neutral STAB Brave Bird actually outdamages a 2x super effective Steel Wing:
    252+ Atk Life Orb Honchkrow Brave Bird vs. 252 HP / 216+ Def Sylveon: 265-313 (67.2 - 79.4%) -- guaranteed 2HKO after Leftovers recovery

    252+ Atk Life Orb Honchkrow Steel Wing vs. 252 HP / 216+ Def Sylveon: 208-247 (52.7 - 62.6%) -- 99.6% chance to 2HKO after Leftovers recovery

    Unless you're massively afraid of Carbink or Diancie for whatever reason, Steel Wing shouldn't be used.

    As I mentioned before, all of your current Chansey's moves don't benefit from Serene Grace at all. Stick to Natural Cure so in the event that Chansey gets crippled by poison or burn, it can simply switch out. If Chansey doesn't have moves that benefit from Serene Grace at all, what's the point of having it in the first place? Time to bring up another example: while Pyroar has Moxie as an ability, its Attack isn't high enough to take advantage of it. Do you see physical Pyroar running around because of Moxie? The answer is no.
     
    Last edited:
    PlatinumDude said:
    Serene Grace is a tough play style to build around in doubles. I still get the point of the team; it's just that there are better options than Mega Aggron in doubles formats. The other problem I see with Mega Aggron is that pre-Mega Evolution, it's seriously weak to Fighting, Ground (4x for both) and Water and it can't fit in its STABs, Earthquake, Protect and Thunder Wave all in one set. If you lose Earthquake, you lose out on damaging Steels. If you lose Protect, you lose the ability to Mega Evolve safely. Give up a STAB and you lose coverage. Gyarados is the better alternative over Mega Aggron, as it has a better defensive typing to use without having to Mega Evolve, can spread paralysis with Thunder Wave and cause a potential flinch with Waterfall.

    Given Sableye's mediocre stats all-round, I don't think it's suitable for doubles, as the Fairy weakness it gained is rather nasty. Klefki, Meowstic and Whimsicott are the Prankster users to go to because of their better defensive typing (for Klefki and Whimsicott) or wider utility options in doubles (all three, especially Meowstic).

    I already suggested a better Honchkrow set for this reason alone; you may have missed it: it's strong enough on its own not to rely on Foul Play. The set also has Superpower for hitting Steels harder, or a support option to speed up the team for a while in Tailwind; heck, you can even use Thunder Wave instead for more paralysis. Relying on critical hits as a source of damage isn't good either; you only get them 50% of the time. I forgot to mention this bit: while Steel Wing does give Honchkrow an option to hit Fairies, a neutral STAB Brave Bird actually outdamages a 2x super effective Steel Wing:
    252+ Atk Life Orb Honchkrow Brave Bird vs. 252 HP / 216+ Def Sylveon: 265-313 (67.2 - 79.4%) -- guaranteed 2HKO after Leftovers recovery

    252+ Atk Life Orb Honchkrow Steel Wing vs. 252 HP / 216+ Def Sylveon: 208-247 (52.7 - 62.6%) -- 99.6% chance to 2HKO after Leftovers recovery

    Unless you're massively afraid of Carbink or Diancie for whatever reason, Steel Wing shouldn't be used.

    As I mentioned before, all of your current Chansey's moves don't benefit from Serene Grace at all. Stick to Natural Cure so in the event that Chansey gets crippled by poison or burn, it can simply switch out. If Chansey doesn't have moves that benefit from Serene Grace at all, what's the point of having it in the first place? Time to bring up another example: while Pyroar has Moxie as an ability, its Attack isn't high enough to take advantage of it. Do you see physical Pyroar running around because of Moxie? The answer is no.
    Click to expand...

    I might end up changing it for singles anyways. I started this thread as doubles team because i read several places and was under the impression that serene grace worked for both pokes on my team. But now that i really research into it the mass seems that it only works on the one who has serene grace, explains why i put chansey with serene grace. Im going to close this thread now and start another when i figure out my singles team.
     
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