[Released] Pokémon Daybreak

[karnamata]

Is it a level difference or something else? I can do levels

it's not level difference. every pokemon trainer has a pokemon with strong move like energy ball and all. play this and you will understand it

 

[Kanne85]

So I cant seem to find a discord link in this thread

 

[karnamata]

So I cant seem to find a discord link in this thread

discord.gg/KQvnTp5,its' above the more features tab so you probably missed it like me

 

[Mizzy_PD]

So I've been playing for a bit and I've reached the city with the first gym(just started btw) and I'm wondering why all trainer Pokemon have near-perfect moves so early in the game like Abra with Psyshock, Charmander with Thunder Punch and even Treeko with Energy Ball? Some aren't even legal, I think at least. This is making the game really difficult to play lol. Don't get me wrong, I'm not complaining because I suck or anything but I've played other difficulty hacks like Reborn/Rejuvenation, etc and there's a slight line here that is crossing over to "unfair" I think in this game. Is there like a strategy here that I'm not grasping or is it just a quality of this game?

The moves are legal, and Treecko is owned by a certain trainer which explains why it has moves like that in the first place. You will get used to it fast and catch on

Is it a level difference or something else? I can do levels

not sure what you mean by that but i think you are asking what is the challenging aspect? the challenge is being able to prepare for counters a lot of the time and strategize at tough areas in the game

 

[bida2]

Overall, a pretty good first impression, there seems to be a lot of promise here. There are even new mechanics like Karma (doing bad things lowers it, good things ups it and it allows you to get certain items).

However, it suffers from the same problem tons of other Pokemon fangames suffer - unreasonable difficulty.
What I mean by unreasonable is: Every opponent Pokemon is given items / moves to counter whatever strategy your intuition tells you will work against them, forcing you to do 1 of 2 things:

1) Resort to cheap tactics like Sand Attack-ing the shit out of your opponent's Pokes
2) Grind until your Pokemon are 10 levels higher so you can steamroll the gym (on a side note, don't use the speed-up function, it crashes the game. And yes, using Cheat Engine also crashes it too).

If I can boil down this type of difficulty to a sentence, it would be: "Here is this wet napkin, now try to block that bazooka shot from your opponent with it."

 

[Mizzy_PD]

I appreciate the feedback, thanks! As for 'unreasonable difficulty', the game is much harder at the start due to the fact you are weaker than the opposition. This changes once you build your team and realise that strategy is key for the tough battles. The game is meant to be challenging, and based from the feedback received I would have to say that we succeeded in that element :)

 

[rwbonesy]

i mean on one hand i get what you're going for but i don't think it's really "fair game design"

but at least it's not a certain other prominent RMXP fangame that starts with an R that has utterly atrocious Pokemon Game Design lol

 

[bida2]

You just described my metaphor about the wet napkin more eloquently - the early game is nearly unbearably frustrating. And this isn't a personal knock on the game - a ton of other Pokemon fan games have the same problem - hellish early game but rather easy mid-late - late game where you have access to good enough moves and can actually formulate strategies to fight the opponent. That's where those games (including yours) shine but you have to force yourself through the worst 10 hours of a videogame you'll probably ever play in your life.

I mean, genuinely, I've played Piranha Bytes RPGs with more forgiving early-games than some Pokemon fan games.

This turned into a rant, for which I'm sorry but I just hate to see this old "difficulty" trope being re-used in fan games where I'm actually interested in the story and mechanics.

 

[Ilovecheetos]

Is a way to get Sylveon before you leave Saffron City?

 

[rwbonesy]

check the dumpster

 

[Mizzy_PD]

You just described my metaphor about the wet napkin more eloquently - the early game is nearly unbearably frustrating. And this isn't a personal knock on the game - a ton of other Pokemon fan games have the same problem - hellish early game but rather easy mid-late - late game where you have access to good enough moves and can actually formulate strategies to fight the opponent. That's where those games (including yours) shine but you have to force yourself through the worst 10 hours of a videogame you'll probably ever play in your life.

I mean, genuinely, I've played Piranha Bytes RPGs with more forgiving early-games than some Pokemon fan games.

This turned into a rant, for which I'm sorry but I just hate to see this old "difficulty" trope being re-used in fan games where I'm actually interested in the story and mechanics.

Okay, that's your personal opinion. The mid-late game is not easy, all I was trying to say is that the reason the first leader may be tedious to some is since you haven't necessarily built your team yet. I can assure you (even though you are obviously exaggerating) that it does not take 10 hours to beat the first gym (and consequently progress). As for making the game easier (for those who play for story), we may implement difficulty settings in the future to expand the player audience, as for now it is challenging which is exactly what the post describes.

i mean on one hand i get what you're going for but i don't think it's really "fair game design"

but at least it's not a certain other prominent RMXP fangame that starts with an R that has utterly atrocious Pokemon Game Design lol

I would like to know your definition of fair game design. For something to be challenging it can't exactly be too fair?

 

[rwbonesy]

Pokemon fangames generally fall into the trap of considering challenging/difficult to either mean high EVs/IVs on trainers, full movelists with shit like Energy Ball even early game, and others. I personally believe you shouldn't be running into a torchic with Rock Tomb right outside the first gym. It's not fun to me and isn't what I find fun in Pokemon. Maybe if you implement a difficulty setting down the road that's somewhere inbetween vanilla Pokemon (which I freely admit is too easy in general most of the time especially these days) and what it is now I'll start the game over and give it a more serious shot. But right now I'm drowning in other games enough that I don't have time for something I don't find all that enjoyable.

 

[bida2]

Never really said it takes ten hours to beat the first gym, my overall thoughts were that it feels like you're fighting against Pokemon that have max IVs and max EVs with spectacular coverage to boot while you as the player are given little to nothing early game - no new interesting items that would allow a counter strategy, no actually useful TMs hidden in nooks and crannies, rewarding you if you go out of your way to explore.

Just like Reborn, it took me at least 4 gyms worth of gameplay until I actually started to enjoy playing this game. Ten hours might be a slight exaggeration but at least a solid eight hours were spent.

 

[ARCEUS493ZELDA]

So I've been playing for a bit and I've reached the city with the first gym(just started btw) and I'm wondering why all trainer Pokemon have near-perfect moves so early in the game like Abra with Psyshock, Charmander with Thunder Punch and even Treeko with Energy Ball? Some aren't even legal, I think at least. This is making the game really difficult to play lol. Don't get me wrong, I'm not complaining because I suck or anything but I've played other difficulty hacks like Reborn/Rejuvenation, etc and there's a slight line here that is crossing over to "unfair" I think in this game. Is there like a strategy here that I'm not grasping or is it just a quality of this game?

lul u funny man

Overall, a pretty good first impression, there seems to be a lot of promise here. There are even new mechanics like Karma (doing bad things lowers it, good things ups it and it allows you to get certain items).

However, it suffers from the same problem tons of other Pokemon fangames suffer - unreasonable difficulty.
What I mean by unreasonable is: Every opponent Pokemon is given items / moves to counter whatever strategy your intuition tells you will work against them, forcing you to do 1 of 2 things:

1) Resort to cheap tactics like Sand Attack-ing the shit out of your opponent's Pokes
2) Grind until your Pokemon are 10 levels higher so you can steamroll the gym (on a side note, don't use the speed-up function, it crashes the game. And yes, using Cheat Engine also crashes it too).

If I can boil down this type of difficulty to a sentence, it would be: "Here is this wet napkin, now try to block that bazooka shot from your opponent with it."

lolwut..... "unreasonable difficulty"? someone clearly hasnt fought madame x's yveltal in rejuvenation with the desire to beat it..................

 

[Mizzy_PD]

Pokemon fangames generally fall into the trap of considering challenging/difficult to either mean high EVs/IVs on trainers, full movelists with shit like Energy Ball even early game, and others. I personally believe you shouldn't be running into a torchic with Rock Tomb right outside the first gym. It's not fun to me and isn't what I find fun in Pokemon. Maybe if you implement a difficulty setting down the road that's somewhere inbetween vanilla Pokemon (which I freely admit is too easy in general most of the time especially these days) and what it is now I'll start the game over and give it a more serious shot. But right now I'm drowning in other games enough that I don't have time for something I don't find all that enjoyable.

Your statement is contradicting. You want something harder than vanilla Pokemon, but less difficult than our game? The trainers early on do not use high EVs/IVs with the exception of a particular trainer, however it is expected since this trainer is the champion of another region. I take your opinion very lightly since it seems you have given up around the first gym, which shows minimal effort and minimal knowledge about the difficulty of my game.

 

[ARCEUS493ZELDA]

Overall, a pretty good first impression, there seems to be a lot of promise here. There are even new mechanics like Karma (doing bad things lowers it, good things ups it and it allows you to get certain items).

However, it suffers from the same problem tons of other Pokemon fangames suffer - unreasonable difficulty.
What I mean by unreasonable is: Every opponent Pokemon is given items / moves to counter whatever strategy your intuition tells you will work against them, forcing you to do 1 of 2 things:

1) Resort to cheap tactics like Sand Attack-ing the shit out of your opponent's Pokes
2) Grind until your Pokemon are 10 levels higher so you can steamroll the gym (on a side note, don't use the speed-up function, it crashes the game. And yes, using Cheat Engine also crashes it too).

If I can boil down this type of difficulty to a sentence, it would be: "Here is this wet napkin, now try to block that bazooka shot from your opponent with it."

also if u think this game is hard.............. go play empyrean hard mode and then come back and try to say that again

 

[Mizzy_PD]

Never really said it takes ten hours to beat the first gym, my overall thoughts were that it feels like you're fighting against Pokemon that have max IVs and max EVs with spectacular coverage to boot while you as the player are given little to nothing early game - no new interesting items that would allow a counter strategy, no actually useful TMs hidden in nooks and crannies, rewarding you if you go out of your way to explore.

Just like Reborn, it took me at least 4 gyms worth of gameplay until I actually started to enjoy playing this game. Ten hours might be a slight exaggeration but at least a solid eight hours were spent.

I can assure you they do not have max EVs/IVs except one particular trainer who is a champion. It teaches you to check your counters, since trainers can cover theirs. As for new items, they certainly exist but maybe not in the way you would like to see. It is definitely a suggestion I can look into for early game but there are already quite a few you can pick up, such as Aerial Ace

 

[✧《 King Kage 》✧]

The moves are legal, and Treecko is owned by a certain trainer which explains why it has moves like that in the first place. You will get used to it fast and catch on

Yeah I'm going to keep continuing because I love the style of the game and the mons!

 

[bida2]

I can assure you they do not have max EVs/IVs except one particular trainer who is a champion. It teaches you to check your counters, since trainers can cover theirs. As for new items, they certainly exist but maybe not in the way you would like to see. It is definitely a suggestion I can look into for early game but there are already quite a few you can pick up, such as Aerial Ace

How to take criticism properly and NOT seem like a petulant child.

also if u think this game is hard.............. go play empyrean hard mode and then come back and try to say that again

How to NOT take criticism - by presenting the same ol' same ol' "git gud scrub" mentality that shuts down all discussion.

 

[rwbonesy]

ok there goes any chance of me giving your game another shot if you're going to be that uppity about your game balance and how i played your game

i was going to go replay it today because i forgot about the aerial ace TM I had found but i mean if you're going to put yourself above the player on a pedestal there's no point in doing so