Pokémon TCG mod

[Ooka]

Yeah it's just a mockup, not a playable version or anything. xD

 

[Maruno]

Your mock-ups look a little rough. I have to say it's very difficult to tell which card in the list is being selected, and there's no space for a "Deck" tab.

The design itself doesn't support a half-size screen, which I'd prefer it to do if possible. The fact that you're using a different (smaller) font doesn't help show whether the design would actually work properly in-game.

On the other hand, I like the idea of fading out the non-current tabs, and of having some kind of border around the list itself to mark it off. The black background is also nice, better than the current grey, and the simple tab design is also nice.

However, as I've alluded to, space is an issue. "Imposter Professor Oak" is the longest card name, so that needs to be able to fit in the list area using the appropriate font. I'd prefer to show more cards at once rather than less, and currently it shows nine while yours shows eight. This means that border around the list probably won't fit after all.

The various card symbols were taken directly from the old TCG game, or knocked together by me. They could definitely be improved. You've just fancied up one of those old symbols, and while it does look nice, I'm wondering whether different designs might work as well.

 

[the__end]

That depends on the AI. If it's really good, it will develop a strategy according to the cards in the deck. I.E. In YGO there are effects that make you discarding cards as a effect, not as a cost. For most cards that doesn't changes a thing and you would want to avoid it, but in certain decks it is the main strategy to discards cards because of effects (because that will activate their effects respectively) or to have an empty hand.
On the other side, we may want to have different difficulties for AIs.

An entire team is working on the Yugioh games but the AI is still dumb and slow. Of course they need to make a general AI because there are just to many cards with to many different effects that need to be considered. Because of some effects it needs to do tons of calculation which makes it so slow. It even calculates all the cards the opponent has which is pretty ridiculous because it can't know what you are planning and it will make the wrong decision anyway.
Do you think that much effort is needed for a (non-profit) Starter Kit that just one person is coding? IMO not.
I think, because of how the Pokemon TCG is build and that the AI is forced to use the deck you give it, you can achieve much more with an AI that is concentrated on the deck it is using. An AI that "knows", that it needs Blastoises Ability as often as possible to support his water deck, is much smarter then an AI that "knows" how to use its ability but doesn't do it correctly.

Had a read through some of the thread. I made a little mockup, let me know what you think.

https://i3.minus.com/ibv0h6VkufeU2P.png

https://i4.minus.com/iIlrOrS1jeJMI.png

These look nice! But i agree with Maruno and you should make a little place for the deck building i guess. Like the first screen Maruno showed (https://www.pokecommunity.com/attachments/67186&d=1359410043).

The design itself doesn't support a half-size screen, which I'd prefer it to do if possible.

The cards will lose important details by displaying a lower resolution. And its harder to make good looking concepts. I don't understand why you want a kit that supports half sized screens. It makes stuff more complicated then they need to be. But if you still insist on it i can cut out the images out of the cards so you can only display them with written information. This way we can save quality and you can have a half sized game.

 

[Ooka]

Your mock-ups look a little rough. I have to say it's very difficult to tell which card in the list is being selected, and there's no space for a "Deck" tab.

Well considering there's a huge picture of it on the right I don't see how xDD I can make the selected item on the left stand out more probably. As for Deck tab space completely slipped my mind. I'll look into that.

The design itself doesn't support a half-size screen, which I'd prefer it to do if possible. The fact that you're using a different (smaller) font doesn't help show whether the design would actually work properly in-game.

The idea was that the card list would expand/contract as the screen size increased/decreased. And the font is just one of the ones included with Essentials, so it should work fine in-game.

On the other hand, I like the idea of fading out the non-current tabs, and of having some kind of border around the list itself to mark it off. The black background is also nice, better than the current grey, and the simple tab design is also nice.

However, as I've alluded to, space is an issue. "Imposter Professor Oak" is the longest card name, so that needs to be able to fit in the list area using the appropriate font. I'd prefer to show more cards at once rather than less, and currently it shows nine while yours shows eight. This means that border around the list probably won't fit after all.

Again the font used is included with Essentials (Power Red and Green) so there shouldn't be a problem using it.

As far as one card difference, is it really that huge a deal? I mean, at least personally, when items are really skinny on a list clicking them can tend to be aggravating. I end up clicking the wrong one and having to undo whatever it is I just did. Anyways, that's really up to you, I just figured a "sort by" option would be nice, and didn't mind slightly bigger options.

The various card symbols were taken directly from the old TCG game, or knocked together by me. They could definitely be improved. You've just fancied up one of those old symbols, and while it does look nice, I'm wondering whether different designs might work as well.

Sure, you're meaning completely custom symbols that don't look like the originals at all? I thought about that but didn't know how well it would be received. I'm all for it though.

 

[Ayutac]

An entire team is working on the Yugioh games but the AI is still dumb and slow.

What? Last time I checked – I think it was World Tournament 2011 – the AI knew a lot of different difficulties and when it needed time, especially when it was in a though situation, it felt more like battling a human who have to think about his decisions rather then immediately coming with an reaction to the situation.

However, we will solve this issue one way or another. The difficulty with deck-depending AIs is if the programmer can even see all possibilities and combinations I guess.

 

[Maruno]

An entire team is working on the Yugioh games but the AI is still dumb and slow. Of course they need to make a general AI because there are just to many cards with to many different effects that need to be considered. Because of some effects it needs to do tons of calculation which makes it so slow. It even calculates all the cards the opponent has which is pretty ridiculous because it can't know what you are planning and it will make the wrong decision anyway.
Do you think that much effort is needed for a (non-profit) Starter Kit that just one person is coding? IMO not.
I think, because of how the Pokemon TCG is build and that the AI is forced to use the deck you give it, you can achieve much more with an AI that is concentrated on the deck it is using. An AI that "knows", that it needs Blastoises Ability as often as possible to support his water deck, is much smarter then an AI that "knows" how to use its ability but doesn't do it correctly.

This isn't a single game though, wherein the functionality doesn't have to extend beyond what I personally want the game to do. Anyone can create any deck and give it to an NPC, which under your idea means that they would also need to make a new AI to support that deck (or use an existing "close enough" AI).

Let's consider what a profile AI would do anyway. It looks at a card and decides whether it should be used. This means analysing the field and deciding how best to use it. This is no different than what an all-encompassing AI would do, with the one exception being that for your way, there would be a few more calculations which check the kind of AI and alter various calculations accordingly.

I honestly think making a single AI would be easier than making several.

The cards will lose important details by displaying a lower resolution. And its harder to make good looking concepts. I don't understand why you want a kit that supports half sized screens. It makes stuff more complicated then they need to be. But if you still insist on it i can cut out the images out of the cards so you can only display them with written information. This way we can save quality and you can have a half sized game.

Because Essentials lets the player reduce the screen size. It's an utterly stupid thing to do, but it's possible, and I'd like to keep the design intact if someone does it. I really don't think it's any more complicated to design for a 256x192 screen anyway - I've never had any problems with doing so.

The card images don't need messing with. Perhaps I'll show them like the duel background (half at once, and you can move it up and down).

The idea was that the card list would expand/contract as the screen size increased/decreased. And the font is just one of the ones included with Essentials, so it should work fine in-game.

None of the regular fonts that Essentials uses are that small. I don't want to use the smaller versions of those fonts because they're harder to read.

As far as one card difference, is it really that huge a deal? I mean, at least personally, when items are really skinny on a list clicking them can tend to be aggravating. I end up clicking the wrong one and having to undo whatever it is I just did. Anyways, that's really up to you, I just figured a "sort by" option would be nice.

If anything, the items in your list are a little "skinnier" than how they already are. There's no clicking anyway - no mouse support. Having more items visible at once makes it easier to find what you're looking for. There are some sorting and filter options too.

Sure, you're meaning completely custom symbols that don't look like the originals at all? I thought about that but didn't know how well it would be received. I'm all for it though.

Well, whatever works best. It's an opportunity to create something, see what works.

 

[Ooka]

None of the regular fonts that Essentials uses are that small. I don't want to use the smaller versions of those fonts because they're harder to read.

Alright, I don't really know what to do with "Red's Cards" or "Alt: Options" yet, but I increased the font size used for the card listings.

If anything, the items in your list are a little "skinnier" than how they already are. There's no clicking anyway - no mouse support. Having more items visible at once makes it easier to find what you're looking for. There are some sorting and filter options too.

Oh, sorry about that must have missed it. I removed the options around the card listing. It gave enough room for one more card name.

Well, whatever works best. It's an opportunity to create something, see what works.

I gave it a shot, just ideas if anything.

 

[the__end]

I gave it a shot, just ideas if anything.

Personally i think the Icons don't fit. You need following Icons: 7 Types of "Basic Pokemon" Icons, "Stage 1" Icon, "Stage 2" Icon, "Trainer Card" Icon, "Energy" Icon, "Special Energy" Icon.
And i think it is preferably that they resemble what they stand for. ;)

The difficulty with deck-depending AIs is if the programmer can even see all possibilities and combinations I guess.

Hmm you might be right about that. But that is a way how we as a community can help. ;)
And the Yugioh AI is dumber then you maybe think. It looks smarter then it is because of the decks the creators gave it. And that is how they give it different difficulties.

 

[Ooka]

Personally i think the Icons don't fit. You need following Icons: 7 Types of "Basic Pokemon" Icons, "Stage 1" Icon, "Stage 2" Icon, "Trainer Card" Icon, "Energy" Icon, "Special Energy" Icon.
And i think it is preferably that they resemble what they stand for. ;)

Sure thing, I'm not really a TCG player but I loved the one for Gameboy (So I don't know too much about what's needed/isn't). I'll look around for a resource or something to go off of and give it another shot.


Edit (Icons are just filler):

 

[Maruno]

Of course, I could always use newer/better deck icons as well. The ones I've got are entirely placeholders.

Hmm, since the TCG extension will be used all by itself (i.e. not alongside any existing pixelly Essentials screens), I think it might as well use graphics designed for a 512x384 screen (i.e. not pixelly). Yes, I've changed my mind. It does mean that all the graphics I've got already would need up-rezzing, though.

All this decision will affect is the fine detail - the actual layouts and things will be the same anyway.

 

[p.claydon]

how are things going? looking forward to seeing updates

 

[Maruno]

Things are going fine, I suppose. Prizes are in, win conditions are in, lots of various other things are done too. I don't keep track of what I've done, but things are being tidied up a bit.

It would be nice to find a rulings pdf or something for the Base/Jungle/Fossil sets which describes various scenarios and answers what is supposed to happen (e.g. exactly when Gastly's Destiny Bond occurs, before or after the attack's extra effect if it has one?). It'd help with programming in the various card effects. Actually, rulings for other sets would be nice too, to make sure there were places for any new effects people might want to add.

Aside from effects related to specific attacks or cards, are there really only four factors to keep track of? By this I mean, 1 Energy Card limit per turn, 1 retreat limit per turn, 1 evolution per Pokémon per turn, and (for most Pokémon Powers) 1 Power use per Pokémon per turn. I can't think of any other general game mechanics that would need to be tracked like these are, which aren't specific to particular card effects.

 

[alphazeta126]

Things are going fine, I suppose. Prizes are in, win conditions are in, lots of various other things are done too. I don't keep track of what I've done, but things are being tidied up a bit.

May I ask what you mean by win conditions? Does this just mean that the player will win after they get all prizes specified for the battle or that there will be special conditions to play by like Pokemon TCG 2 for the GameBoy?

 

[Maruno]

You win if you take your last prize card. You lose if you don't have an Active Pokémon. You lose if you can't draw a card at the start of your turn. If multiple conditions occur at once (i.e. the first two), then the person who "wins most" wins (or it's a draw). That's it.

I've not played the TCG2 game, just the first one (and not very much). I don't intend to add any gimmick features in anyway.

 

[alphazeta126]

You win if you take your last prize card. You lose if you don't have an Active Pokémon. You lose if you can't draw a card at the start of your turn. If multiple conditions occur at once (i.e. the first two), then the person who "wins most" wins (or it's a draw). That's it.

I've not played the TCG2 game, just the first one (and not very much). I don't intend to add any gimmick features in anyway.

Okay cool, thanks for the quick reply. By the way do you need any help creating new graphics? I saw in the earlier posts that you were thinking of changing them so that pixel size was not doubled. If so I can help. Just tell me what type of graphics I would have to make

 

[the__end]

It would be nice to find a rulings pdf or something for the Base/Jungle/Fossil sets which describes various scenarios and answers what is supposed to happen (e.g. exactly when Gastly's Destiny Bond occurs, before or after the attack's extra effect if it has one?). It'd help with programming in the various card effects. Actually, rulings for other sets would be nice too, to make sure there were places for any new effects people might want to add.

Here is what you are looking for:
https://www.mediafire.com/?4379z78ci5q7poo

These could be useful too:
https://www.pojo.com/pokemon/rules/oldbasicrules.html
https://www.pojo.com/pokemon/rules/oldexpertrules.html

For the neo sets:
https://www.pojo.com/pokemon/rules/neorules1.pdf

The current rules:
https://assets23.pokemon.com/assets/cms/pdf/tcg/rulebooks/bw_next_destinies_rulebook.pdf
https://www.pocketmonsters.net/TCG_Tutorial

Hope i could help. :D

 

[Maruno]

Okay cool, thanks for the quick reply. By the way do you need any help creating new graphics? I saw in the earlier posts that you were thinking of changing them so that pixel size was not doubled. If so I can help. Just tell me what type of graphics I would have to make

Just up-rezzing the existing graphics would be fine, at least for the ones used in duels. The other existing screens could probably stand to be redesigned to some extent.

Here is what you are looking for:
https://www.mediafire.com/?4379z78ci5q7poo

That's exactly what I was looking for! That'll be extremely useful. Your other links will be useful also.

So many rulings on Ditto...

 

[the__end]

So many rulings on Ditto...

That's why it is not included in the gbc game. :P

EDIT
Changed a few pixel so the cards doesn't look so "round".

Replaced the Energy icons with better ones.

 

[alphazeta126]

Just up-rezzing the existing graphics would be fine, at least for the ones used in duels. The other existing screens could probably stand to be redesigned to some extent.

Just logged on and saw this response. I actually have an essay to work on right now but immediatley after that I will start on this.

 

[fayt666]

if ur lookin for sites that give all details on cards

https://www.serebii.net/card/base/

https://www.pokemon.com/us/pokemon-trading-card-game/database/

seribii has all cards with details.

pokemon.com focuses from ex to newest seen as alot original series cards were banned.