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FireRed hack: Pokémon Throwback v211001: Kanto, Your Way

RichterSnipes

Not even a nibble...
513
Posts
12
Years
  • Age 31
  • USA
  • Seen Dec 1, 2023
Just regular VBA, yes I checked on both VBA and the Pokemon Universal Randomizer, I don't know what you mean by auto-patching it as I used Lunar IPS to patch a new copy of Pokemon FireRed with Pokemon Throwback, and sure I guess I could send you that.
That doesn't tell me if you're using a vanilla ROM. Typically the best way to know would be to calculate the ROM's MD5 checksum and compare it to what the vanilla ROM's checksum is in a reliable database. Unfortunately, that's not easy to do in the case of GBA games because most checksums for those games are based off of "scene" releases, which are both illegal and unhelpful due to flagrant code changes to add signature touches to them. Because of this, the only way to be certain is to rip the ROM from your own cartridge. The most common way to do it today would be to get a DS flashcart and use a program to dump the GBA ROM from it. Obviously that would require an original DS or DS Lite.

Auto-patching is referring to a process that many emulators nowadays have. If you have both your ROM and a patch for it in the same directory with the patch named the same thing as the ROM, then loading up the ROM will automatically apply the patch to it without you having to do it yourself. VBA-M supports auto-patching, for instance.

I'm unable to reproduce any errors with your save file. Can you try out your ROM in the latest version of VBA-M to see if things are working differently?
 

Alex Night

Charmander Shepard
60
Posts
10
Years
That doesn't tell me if you're using a vanilla ROM. Typically the best way to know would be to calculate the ROM's MD5 checksum and compare it to what the vanilla ROM's checksum is in a reliable database. Unfortunately, that's not easy to do in the case of GBA games because most checksums for those games are based off of "scene" releases, which are both illegal and unhelpful due to flagrant code changes to add signature touches to them. Because of this, the only way to be certain is to rip the ROM from your own cartridge. The most common way to do it today would be to get a DS flashcart and use a program to dump the GBA ROM from it. Obviously that would require an original DS or DS Lite.

Auto-patching is referring to a process that many emulators nowadays have. If you have both your ROM and a patch for it in the same directory with the patch named the same thing as the ROM, then loading up the ROM will automatically apply the patch to it without you having to do it yourself. VBA-M supports auto-patching, for instance.

I'm unable to reproduce any errors with your save file. Can you try out your ROM in the latest version of VBA-M to see if things are working differently?

I'm pretty sure I've used the vanilla version of Pokemon FireRed to patch with. I found it from a trusted source before they had to take down all Nintendo games because of copyright issues or something bad like that. I will give the VBA-M thing a try though.
 
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46
Posts
9
Years
  • Age 32
  • Seen Dec 16, 2015
I'm not understanding what the Celebi event is. Is it just a patch that puts a Celebi in your PC? If so, why does it say there scripts for two NPC's in regards to the Celebi event in the uses bytes doc? And why does it say that it can't be patched over Throwback? Isn't that the whole point?

Also, there's tile errors all over Faraway Island, and its name is also still in all caps.
 

RichterSnipes

Not even a nibble...
513
Posts
12
Years
  • Age 31
  • USA
  • Seen Dec 1, 2023
I'm not understanding what the Celebi event is. Is it just a patch that puts a Celebi in your PC? If so, why does it say there scripts for two NPC's in regards to the Celebi event in the uses bytes doc? And why does it say that it can't be patched over Throwback? Isn't that the whole point?

Also, there's tile errors all over Faraway Island, and its name is also still in all caps.
The Celebi event is supposed to mimic real-life Pokémon events where people stand in line to get a rare Pokémon offered only through those means. You know, like the ones that would be held at a Toys "R" Us before the DS games came out. The patch doesn't add in an extra event into the game. All it does is modify the Pokémon Center at Viridian City to be specialized for Celebi trading.

The two people at the help desk are specially edited to act as if you (you, not the player character) are helping Nintendo with the real-life event by offering to distribute Celebi to hundreds of kids waiting in line for their event-only Pokémon. One of them gives you the general talk about the situation, while the other one will add extra Celebi to your PC if you wish. You'll start out with about 100 Celebi, including one shiny Celebi. "Why", you may ask? That's because it's supposed to mimic a real-life event as much as possible! Plus, I guess you can use it as a means to determine which Celebi you want, weeding through them based on IVs and nature.

The provided save file loads your character inside that Pokémon Center's second floor. You'll notice that the escalator has been removed, thus locking you in the room. Applying the Celebi patch to any other regular FireRed hack would mean that you going up the elevator in the Viridian City Pokémon Center would lock you up there. Saving up there would be the equivalent of falling for one of many game-ending traps in a Sierra point-and-click game.

As stated before, I intend to keep as much with Pokémon canon as possible. Celebi will not be available in the regular game because there's no precedent for it appearing in the games at besides Ilex Forest (Pokémon Colosseum isn't necessarily canon, and even if it was it'd be a similar situation). That doesn't mean I'll never make it available in the main game, I'll just have to really consider how best to make it available. If I add it, it'll probably come along with a more substantial addition to the game.

The data changes for the Celebi patch appear in the documentation because they help keep me informed on what places in the ROM I've used data in. If I really wanted to, I could place the new event data for those two people in the Celebi patch anywhere. I just chose to do it this way because I felt it would keep things more organized.

Sorry about the capitalization of Faraway Island. When working with all these patches a few places tend to get recapitalized after being done with them. This, Pallet Town, and Mt. Moon tend to be the three I have to fight with due to how I've altered their maps. I've now fixed the capitalization Faraway Island. You can redownload the hack and apply the updated patch if you want that fix.

And what tile errors are you talking about? I see none. If you're talking about the lighting getting randomly disabled on the outside area of the island, that's a side effect of the implementation of the real-time clock used in the hack. Did you apply any patches besides the primary patch?
 

Alex Night

Charmander Shepard
60
Posts
10
Years
Okay, I am looking at the ROM information within the VBA talking about the game and here is a screenshot of what I got down below my post. It's got BPRE for the FireRed qualifications and I checked here and both the Universal Randomizer saying that it is Version 1.0. I don't understand why the Repel system isn't working or how the TMs can't be bought at the Game Corner, but unfortunately I'm a bit too deep in my Nuzlocke now to rebuild the ROM from scratch unless I can take the .sav file to the new one which I might do if that is an option. I don't know, what do you think Richter?
 

RichterSnipes

Not even a nibble...
513
Posts
12
Years
  • Age 31
  • USA
  • Seen Dec 1, 2023
Okay, I am looking at the ROM information within the VBA talking about the game and here is a screenshot of what I got down below my post. It's got BPRE for the FireRed qualifications and I checked here and both the Universal Randomizer saying that it is Version 1.0. I don't understand why the Repel system isn't working or how the TMs can't be bought at the Game Corner, but unfortunately I'm a bit too deep in my Nuzlocke now to rebuild the ROM from scratch unless I can take the .sav file to the new one which I might do if that is an option. I don't know, what do you think Richter?
ROM Information from VBA doesn't help much, as pretty much all of the information listed in it, sans game title (if a hacker wanted to change it to the name of their own hack), will likely be similar across any version of the game you'll ever be able to check, whether it be the clean ROM, a hack, or anything else.

Have you tried using the latest version of VBA-M? You said you were going to do that, but I don't see any indication of that. Earlier versions of the emulator might have inaccuracies that will prevent games/hacks from being played properly.

As for patching the game correctly... assuming you want all the features, apply just the main patch to your ROM. You can then apply the Higher Quality Cries patch afterwards if you wish, but nothing else. If you do get the hack working properly, you should be able to transfer your save file just fine.

Also, can you please check the MD5 checksum of the unpatched version of your FireRed ROM? If it doesn't match the checksum of the clean, vanilla ROM, then I can't help you. The following is the MD5 checksum of Pokémon - FireRed Version (USA) v1.0:
Code:
e26ee0d44e809351c8ce2d73c7400cdd
 

Roger Davis

Goofball
77
Posts
14
Years
Can I just suggest maybe making a waterfall area for Berry Forest for Celebi or something and maybe place a small shrine there to interact with? I mean--I can understand if you don't want to, but that is a fairly empty area and aside from the Hypno thing and getting...well...berries...it's kinda pointless of a place, and it just feels like some kind of legend should be hiding there. It gives that vibe. That's just me, though.
 
46
Posts
9
Years
  • Age 32
  • Seen Dec 16, 2015
And what tile errors are you talking about? I see none. If you're talking about the lighting getting randomly disabled on the outside area of the island, that's a side effect of the implementation of the real-time clock used in the hack. Did you apply any patches besides the primary patch?

Yeah must have been a problem on my end. For some reason the sides of the trees (the new tiles you added) were all glitched-out. I re-patched and they're fine now.
 

RichterSnipes

Not even a nibble...
513
Posts
12
Years
  • Age 31
  • USA
  • Seen Dec 1, 2023
Can I just suggest maybe making a waterfall area for Berry Forest for Celebi or something and maybe place a small shrine there to interact with? I mean--I can understand if you don't want to, but that is a fairly empty area and aside from the Hypno thing and getting...well...berries...it's kinda pointless of a place, and it just feels like some kind of legend should be hiding there. It gives that vibe. That's just me, though.
You could say the same thing for quite a lot of the areas in the Sevii Islands. It's clear that the same amount of effort didn't go into them as the main areas of other Pokémon games. Compared to other areas in the islands, though, Berry Forest is of enough interest as it is. Having an area dedicated to getting Berries is important in FR/LG due to the lack of growing your own berries. Berries randomly respawn every 512 steps, so you've got an endless supply of them. Sure, it's a bit barbaric compared to the Berry system of the Hoenn games, and it does feel a bit forced in as a "We know guys, you need your Berries." area. But it still has enough of a reason to exist in its own right.

I will say that Berry Forest would be an ideal place for hackers of FR/LG to place Celebi. As the guardian of the forest, it's the most fitting place for it to go. However, I won't simply because Celebi is, specifically, the guardian of Ilex Forest. All other legendaries in the first two generations have established precedents for appearing in areas in the Kanto games (including Navel Rock) or during the same time period (for Mew). Not Celebi, though. I'd be breaking game canon if I made it available elsewhere as a standard or legendary battle encounter. And I'm certainly not going to include a large part of Johto in my hack strictly to make it available there. Even if I did, it'd still break canon because Celebi is still supposed to be there three years in the future for the Johto protagonist to obtain. I'm sorry, but I just can't see myself doing it.

Note that I specified "as a standard or legendary battle encounter." I'm not against making Celebi available in other ways. I'll just need to develop an incredibly convincing reason for it to be available in the game. It has to be a very event-oriented reason. Probably one that isn't even in vanilla FR/LG. But it's not an impossibility.
 
69
Posts
9
Years
Hi, I have three questions:
-If I give you proper credit, would this be OK to use as a baserom?
-Do you have an "extras" patch that doesn't have the removed tutorials?
-Will the modern repel system ever be added to the LeafGreen version?
 
46
Posts
9
Years
  • Age 32
  • Seen Dec 16, 2015
Note that I specified "as a standard or legendary battle encounter." I'm not against making Celebi available in other ways. I'll just need to develop an incredibly convincing reason for it to be available in the game. It has to be a very event-oriented reason. Probably one that isn't even in vanilla FR/LG. But it's not an impossibility.

Maybe a way that would satisfy you is an event with the game designers after catching the other 250 pokemon available in-game. Almost like an in-game Nintendo event giving you the Celebi.
 

RichterSnipes

Not even a nibble...
513
Posts
12
Years
  • Age 31
  • USA
  • Seen Dec 1, 2023
Hi, I have three questions:
-If I give you proper credit, would this be OK to use as a baserom?
-Do you have an "extras" patch that doesn't have the removed tutorials?
-Will the modern repel system ever be added to the LeafGreen version?

-Yes, I'm perfectly fine with that.
-What do you consider tutorials? There's several things in-game that can be construed as such. The pre-game text, Professor Oak's words during your first battle, the help sign in your room, the little girl in Pallet Town, and the Teachy TV all have elements of this. I don't have a patch on me that has those things enabled, but they can be re-added simply in their own ways.
-The modern Repel system as Darthatron designed it can't be easily ported just through changing pointers. I've tried plenty to port it over, but I don't think it'll work. With things I'm considering concerning the future of this hack, I'm more likely to remove the system altogether than port it to LeafGreen.

Maybe a way that would satisfy you is an event with the game designers after catching the other 250 pokemon available in-game. Almost like an in-game Nintendo event giving you the Celebi.
That's one thing I've considered. The problem with this option is that I don't know how to tell the game to check if the previous 250 Pokémon have been caught. I can create an award for catching 250 Pokémon, but that wouldn't consider if any of the first 250 obtained are Hoenn Pokémon. The only other method I can personally think of would involve ASM, but its construction would be so long and wasteful (it'd essentially check if each of the first 250 have been caught...so imagine a check being done 250 times) that it wouldn't be worth learning how to make it. I'm sure there's an efficient method of doing it, but nothing's coming to my (admittedly limited) mind. If anything I just said is factually wrong or considered blasphemy, I'm sorry. I don't have the knowledge in hacking that others do! :)

Besides, I personally think that that wouldn't exactly be that interesting of a way to get such a special Pokémon.
 
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69
Posts
9
Years
-Yes, I'm perfectly fine with that.
-What do you consider tutorials? There's several things in-game that can be construed as such. The pre-game text, Professor Oak's words during your first battle, the help sign in your room, the little girl in Pallet Town, and the Teachy TV all have elements of this. I don't have a patch on me that has those things enabled, but they can be re-added simply in their own ways.
-The modern Repel system as Darthatron designed it can't be easily ported just through changing pointers. I've tried plenty to port it over, but I don't think it'll work. With things I'm considering concerning the future of this hack, I'm more likely to remove the system altogether than port it to LeafGreen.
-The Teachy TV and help sign in the player's house.
-Maybe you could ask Darthatron to recreate it for LeafGreen? Anyway, it's not a big deal.
-Personally, I'm fine with the way you get Celebi already (self-distribution sounds cool!)
 
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RichterSnipes

Not even a nibble...
513
Posts
12
Years
  • Age 31
  • USA
  • Seen Dec 1, 2023
-The Teachy TV and help sign in the player's house.
-Maybe you could ask Darthatron to recreate it for LeafGreen? Anyway, it's not a big deal.
-Personally, I'm fine with the way you get Celebi already (self-distribution sounds cool!)
It sounds like the game you want to hack is LeafGreen. Is that correct?

I sincerely doubt asking Darthatron will do anything. I'm pretty sure he doesn't take requests, and I don't even know if he's active around here anymore. Also, there's little demand for LeafGreen hacking. When two versions of the same Pokémon game are released, people hack the first of the two listed. In this case, it's FireRed. Making changes to LeafGreen involves fighting the norm, and to not much practical effect. As such, the latter game just gets ignored. It's not a means to put down the other version of the game, that's just the nature of the scene.
 

RichterSnipes

Not even a nibble...
513
Posts
12
Years
  • Age 31
  • USA
  • Seen Dec 1, 2023
I'm doing both FireRed and LeafGreen.

Anyway, it would just be nice if that tutorial stuff was added back in.
If you cross-reference changed areas between the vanilla versions of the games and the versions with the Extras patch on them, you can figure out what needs to be changed back. With the Old Man, for instance, compare the pointers for his event (and the two walking scripts just below him) and change them back to what they were in the vanilla ROM. Use the documentation as a reference guide. Adding back the sign in your room isn't that difficult, either. Just make sure to change back the tile used for its space so the sign appears.
 
52
Posts
14
Years
  • Seen Dec 23, 2019
So I've just reached the Sevii Isles for the first time, and I had completely forgotten about the Old Sea Chart... That was a pleasant surprise! Can it be used before becoming Champion? I don't really want to try right now to find out...

On the other hand, while I think I understand why you moved Moltres back to Victory Road (accuracy to the original games, I'm guessing), a lot of Mt. Ember seems pointless without it there (and it's not like Moltres was the entire reason for Victory Road originally). At the very least, there ought to be something there, if only so that final Strength "puzzle" has some purpose. It doesn't necessarily have to be obvious, but a reward for those who climb the mountain would be rather nice.
 

RichterSnipes

Not even a nibble...
513
Posts
12
Years
  • Age 31
  • USA
  • Seen Dec 1, 2023
So I've just reached the Sevii Isles for the first time, and I had completely forgotten about the Old Sea Chart... That was a pleasant surprise! Can it be used before becoming Champion? I don't really want to try right now to find out...

On the other hand, while I think I understand why you moved Moltres back to Victory Road (accuracy to the original games, I'm guessing), a lot of Mt. Ember seems pointless without it there (and it's not like Moltres was the entire reason for Victory Road originally). At the very least, there ought to be something there, if only so that final Strength "puzzle" has some purpose. It doesn't necessarily have to be obvious, but a reward for those who climb the mountain would be rather nice.
You can use the Old Sea Map whenever you wish. To use it, directly talk to the captain at Vermilion City. He won't know you have it unless you confront him directly.

Also, if you didn't choose Bulbasaur as your starter, I'm sure you'll find that the peak of Mt. Ember still has a purpose. ;)
 

Ocular Stratus

It's okay, I enjoy being the bad guy.
71
Posts
10
Years
I've seen and dismissed this hack several time now and finally decided to give it a look. I have to say that a feel a bit of shame now for not giving this a try earlier, the level of nostalgia is amazing. The only question I have is did you update the sprite to chaos rush/doll steak 64x64 sprites? If not, then why and would you possible consider adding a patch for updated sprites?

Other then that I really love this hack. FR is one of my favorite hacks already because it had enough nostalgia to tickle my fancy but this hack bumps everything up to 12 if you get that reference. GG.
 
52
Posts
14
Years
  • Seen Dec 23, 2019
You can use the Old Sea Map whenever you wish. To use it, directly talk to the captain at Vermilion City. He won't know you have it unless you confront him directly.

Also, if you didn't choose Bulbasaur as your starter, I'm sure you'll find that the peak of Mt. Ember still has a purpose. ;)

That's nice to know! I think I'll still wait until after the Elite Four to use it, but it's nice to have options.

Really? Oh... I think I've figured it out.
Spoiler:

That's really cool, but if you go to the summit on the first trip to the Sevii Islands, there's definitely nothing there, and it feels disappointing after going out of your way to get there. Maybe you could hide a Lava Cookie or something under where Moltres used to be? Also, is there any kind of hint in the game itself that the spoilered event happens?
 
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