pokemon going a bit mushy

[SBaby]

Ok... First of all, sorry to pick on you, but I need someone to reply to. I'll be using only part of your post for the sake of organization.

Because at Bulbagarden (and Serebiiforums for that matter), they like intelligent members who dont have something set in their head that impairs their ability to be openminded to the new. This place is full of softies and complainers because of the lack of reasonable people.

My theory is that people at those two places (as well as many die hard Pokemon fans) are in denial. They're so desperate for Pokemon to have a good plot that they take any little thing they can get in the series as a sign of great things to come. Even though they end up getting a big middle finger three episodes later as the cast forgets everything that just happened half the time. Seriously, have they ever referenced Lugia from Jhoto, or Groudon and Kyogre? What about the GS Ball outside of Jhoto? Nope. They just pretend that never happened.

And what do you mean about softies? We're not soft at all. If we were, we'd never complain about anything in Pokemon.

As for the thread, I dont even know where to begin. The Johto Journeys was definitely the worst season in the series, with Kanto and AG, but The Orange Islands, Pokemon DP and later Johto were much better. However, not too many people agree with me on the Johto part even though season 4 had loads of good episodes but why bother arguing.

Well, I'm probably one of the few people that actually enjoyed Jhoto and the Orange Islands as a whole, even though Jhoto pulled a rotten bait and switch on the fans (in the form of the GS Ball, which is the reason for a majority of the malice towards it). But honestly, I'm over the GS Ball thing. There's way bigger fish to fry in Pokemon now.

If anything Pokemon is better than it's ever been. It's just that people here cant accept how the show works.

I wouldn't say it's better, since the same overall story is now being told for the fourth time. But at least there's more subplots to keep fans watching the show, such as Paul, who's basically the only character keeping me watching the show (yes, I know I'm asking for trouble if one recurring character is the reason I'm still watching Pokemon), and Team Galactic who are probably the plot device for an upcoming 2 to 3 part episode.

About Ash's "level 100" Charizard, if he had a Pokemon like that, he's sweep through Shinou or whatever region and it would be boring and then become repetitive and then the fans would be complaining.

Honestly, I really don't have anything effective to say about Charizard because Ash basically does the same thing with all of his Pokemon in some way or another. So having a problem with one is like having a problem with all of them. And that would just drive a person bat---- insane.

Oh wait, fans always complain.

Hey, I've never complained once about Sentai or Sailor Moon, and I'm a fan of both.

Ash's Pikachu resets it's "level" every region so it's not too powerful. It's like in the games we all start over with new, weak Pokemon and build up from there. That's what Ash is doing.

Ok. But that's the whole point. Why can't Ash just battle even stronger opponents? Why the whole 'resetting Pikachu's level'? Oh that's right. It would make too much sense for him to just battle stronger opponents.

If they're so intent on resetting Pikachu's level, he might as well just Oak the Pokemon and be done with it.

Seriously, grow up and move on.

If I did that, I wouldn't be here ranting about a kid's show, would I?

 

[Ruffresia]

I like Johto and the Orange Islands. D: I didn't really mind all the fillers for some reason. Maybe because I was like 8-9. -shrug- Anyway, I suppose Ash had his fair share of character development since season one. Although he has gotten slightly more mature, he got dumber, imo. I watched this hot spring episode in Sinnoh, and Team Rocket was there again, and they were just wearing like hardhats and stuff. Ash didn't recognize them. By the way, is Team Rocket in every episode? o.o;

 

[Charaxes]

Seriously, have they ever referenced Lugia from Jhoto, or Groudon and Kyogre?

Well, I'm probably one of the few people that actually enjoyed Jhoto and the Orange Islands as a whole, even though Jhoto pulled a rotten bait and switch on the fans (in the form of the GS Ball, which is the reason for a majority of the malice towards it). But honestly, I'm over the GS Ball thing. There's way bigger fish to fry in Pokemon now.

I wouldn't say it's better, since the same overall story is now being told for the fourth time. But at least there's more subplots to keep fans watching the show, such as Paul, who's basically the only character keeping me watching the show (yes, I know I'm asking for trouble if one recurring character is the reason I'm still watching Pokemon), and Team Galactic who are probably the plot device for an upcoming 2 to 3 part episode.

Hey, I've never complained once about Sentai or Sailor Moon, and I'm a fan of both.

Before I dive into the quotes, someone asked why the thread had continued. The short answer is, there was a turning point in the thread (I think Jorah started it), probing into an issue worth debating: why people always make these "whiny-type" threads and complaining. By normal standards, this should have been locked, but I realized there was a seed worth growing, culling into the present topic.

That's one of the sub duties of a Mod: cutting a seemingly useless thread some slack if there is a true topic within, seeing if it can elevate into something useful. It isn't all about locking threads. Heh. That, and let the newbies go through the motions and have the smarter fans jump in when needed.

It's funny how the interweb can work like that, and the reverse, more often than not. So let's enjoy the present while we can.

Now, onto the quotes!

1. Actually, a Weekly Broadcasting Station episode did mention Lugia from Johto.

https://dogasu.bulbagarden.net/comparisons/chronicles/ep010.html

2. Originally, I was indifferent to the OI. Then after Hoenn/BF, thought it genius, as creatively gave the writers some breathing room. One only has so much flexibility focusing on badge collecting. Of course, then Johto and Sinnoh defied the formula, to varying success.

Johto, without it, we wouldn't have Forest Grumps, the Baby Lugia arc, the Raikou special, Dues and Don'ts, Address Unown and a fun parody on Batman, so I'll never completely trash it. But, the writers loved them fillers too much, which is ironic as the episodes I've mentioned are fillers in the true sense (i.e., no game story canon, except for the Raikou special). Hahaha.

3. Honestly, Galactic is motivating me to watch, as well, but I have to agree: I have to see where they're going to go with Paul. Since everyone is more or less a goody two shoes, with few exceptions -- we need more jerks on the show.

And I'm also a Sailor Moon fan, and, hoo boy, do I disagree with it. However, most of my rancor is on the manga (the willy-nilly killing off the villains, among other issues).

 

[pong08]

now... people, I have a VERY CRUCIAL question to ask.... Did the game or the show come out first? If the show came ou first, it would be kind of wrong to change the show to the manga..., but if the game came ot first, they should've totally made the show like tha manga.... grr.
I don't even care about which came out first... all I know is that they should cancel the show and restart the whole thing like tha manga....

 

[Shiny]

I watched the Kanto & Hoen leagues, I liked them both, but Sinnoh, seems rather dull

 

[pong08]

I forgot to mention this.... but I think everyone knows the trademark character of the show.. PIKACHU.... ;0. It's not that I hate Pikachu,(in fact my favorite character in brawl)... but it is always the same RAT who gets to save the day, and it becomes a cliche. Second thing, they gotta make the bad guys a lot tougher and make them BAD To THE BONE. Team Rocket is too weak on the show.. and trust me... if u ever put up the team rocket leaders against the ones in the show, Team Rocket in the TV show is gonna be blasting off again... HAHAHAHA. (smirk) They kinda also need more connections with the girls ad guy characters.. that's what makes a anime intersting... BAD TO THE BONE villains, Romance, action, saving the world... all that good stuff.

in the early days it werent so bad but ever since the johto league the only cool episodes are gym battles and such. everything else is just oohh poor little tiny cute pokemon lets return it to its parents or oh no team rocket stole a villages sacred statue we got to find it

i mean, come on the only episodes i will watch now are the silver conferance or the battle frontier episodes!!

BTW.. for your information.. IT IS MUSHY.

 

[airconditioning]

pong, it's a children's show. It'll never, ever have that. And frankly, it probably shouldn't.

Also, the games came out first. They started everything (not that a quick look on Wikipedia couldn't have told you that...).

 

[pong08]

pong, it's a children's show. It'll never, ever have that. And frankly, it probably shouldn't.

Also, the games came out first. They started everything (not that a quick look on Wikipedia couldn't have told you that...).

unfortunately the sad truth...

 

[Deadly Arbok]

Team Rocket is too weak on the show.. and trust me... if u ever put up the team rocket leaders against the ones in the show, Team Rocket in the TV show is gonna be blasting off again...

I would think that the TR in the show is a bit stronger than the TR in the games. I mean, in the games an entire organization is being taken down by one little kid. And after that, Giovaani goes soft and just disappears. In the anime the twerps only took down a few of TR's minions. Not to mention that they haven't really dealt with Giovaani yet(who I'm sure must be pretty powerful.)

I have another question, and correct me if I'm wrong. You dislike/hate/loathe the anime in favor of the games because the anime is repetive. But aren't the games repetive as well. If so(I'm not trying to change anyone's opinions), than why do you like the games so much if it has the same thing you hate about the anime?

 

[pong08]

I would think that the TR in the show is a bit stronger than the TR in the games. I mean, in the games an entire organization is being taken down by one little kid. And after that, Giovaani goes soft and just disappears. In the anime the twerps only took down a few of TR's minions. Not to mention that they haven't really dealt with Giovaani yet(who I'm sure must be pretty powerful.)

I have another question, and correct me if I'm wrong. You dislike/hate/loathe the anime in favor of the games because the anime is repetive. But aren't the games repetive as well. If so(I'm not trying to change anyone's opinions), than why do you like the games so much if it has the same thing you hate about the anime?

I probably got jaded out of the show... I guess it got boring as I grew older... but
about the games and the manga... I don't know.. there is a certain quailty to it that
I never get bored about.. the intensity and the fantsy. And I don't find that as much in the show (Well Obviuosly, cuz it's a kids' show, u don't want that show to be too violent for the kids)as I do in the games and manga.

 

[airconditioning]

Team Rocket isn't supposed to be tough. They're the recurring comic relief characters. Having them as BAD DUDES would leave the show pretty devoid of humor. :/

 

[SBaby]

pong, it's a children's show. It'll never, ever have that. And frankly, it probably shouldn't.

Ahh. I knew it was only a matter of time until I got one of these. I'll respond to you the same way I respond to everyone that makes that claim about Pokemon being a children's show. SatAM.

SatAM, also known as the only Sonic cartoon series to ever use its mainstream name, 'Sonic the Hedgehog' as the title, was a children's Saturday morning cartoon made in the early 90s, right before Power Rangers got started (in fact, Power Rangers was ABC's ridiculous excuse to cancel the still-successful-at-the-time cartoon). It had cute, adorable characters who each had their own personalities. Wait, there's a point to all this.

It was also really dark, with villains that actually posed a THREAT to the characters and the world, including what I consider to be one of the most dark and brooding bad guys ever used in a Saturday morning cartoon (let alone a video game-based cartoon). Then there's the way their world is thrust into ruin and they're trying to defeat the bad guys and save the planet. But despite it all, nobody ever got killed and the show still maintained alot of light heartedness to it.

Personally, I wouldn't go as far as making Pokemon like SatAM. But I think it's possible for Pokemon to at least have a more serious plot, or a more serious main villain. It's not so much because it's a children's show that Pokemon is so kiddy. It's just that the producers choose not to make Pokemon more serious. And honestly, there really isn't much that can be done about it, given what I read from that interview that was posted here about a week ago.


And yes, JJM aren't supposed to be tough. They're comedy relief villains. But I do agree that they put in way too many appearances, and most of them seem to do nothing more than waste time in an episode - time that could be better spent developing the characters.

 

[airconditioning]

Fine, it's a lighthearted children's show.

Also, developing characters? Not in Pokemon. The characters aren't supposed to be any more than archetype cut-n-pastes.

Ash: Stereotypical kid lead- he's not too bright, but he's learning about the world around him.
Brock: Father figure of the series. Teaches Ash everything he needs to know, and takes care of him.
Dawn: Eye candy. :/