Poor Young Trainers

[Teh Blazer]

If say, Brock were the Gymleader of Pewter Gym today, how would the young, inspired trainers earn their first badge? Fighting a Steelix, with a Bulbasaur?

How could trainers who start after Ash beats the Kanto region get one badge without training Pokemon as fast as Ash (and technically faster to reach Ash's level in the first place).

Even with Ash's million level Pikachu who should be past Lv.100 by now, couldn't beat Roark on the first try, how do you expect little Johnny to get a badge without grinding on Route "near my home" for ten years to get a strong enough Pokemon. Even so, the Gymleader would have trained more, so you'd have to grind in a harder place.

Gymleaders should have a reserved set of Pokemon(s) for the young trainers who aspire to be great and actually have a shot at winning. Like, Brock should have a Geodude and Onix set aside for Gym battling and people like Roark to have simple Pokemon, not use his steriod-enhanced Cranidos against Johnny's Lv.10 Starly. Seriously, I feel sorry for those new kids.

Just for thought.

 

[joehat]

That's how I think it works. The way Ash's Pokemon grow so fast, I don't understand how he can lose to anyone so easily as he sometimes does.

Remember the battle against Falkner? He had a Pidgeot. I'm sure he wouldn't have used a Pidgeot against some kid with his/her young Chikorita and Ratatta. The fact that Ash had Charizard with him, however, may have enticed Falkner into using his Pidgeot.

Then you have battles that confuse the heck out of me, for instance..

Ash's Treecko gets whooped by Brawly's Makuhita. Next episode Makuhita evolves to Hariyama and Treecko is able to defeat it. Ummmmm....ok so Hariyama wasn't used to its larger frame..oh well. There's no way Treecko, who just lost to Makuhita, should have been able to beat Hariyama.

Then as you said we have the battle with Roark. Ash loses to Cranidos, which then evolves to Rampardos and he is somehow able to win.

But hey, it's Pokemon. That's just the way it goes.

One of the most epic fails in Pokemon IMO is a Battle Frontier episode where Ash's Swellow and Corphish defeat a Swampert and Arcanine. Really? Ash's Pokemon were clearly overmatched and they somehow won. Gah typical Pokemon.

Also, I'm pretty sure Brock wouldn't use Steelix against a beginning trainer. I could see him using Steelix against some hard-nosed kid who thinks he's all that to set him/her straight, but that's it. Otherwise, he'd probably just use a Geodude or young Onix.

 

[GymLeaderMisty]

If say, Brock were the Gymleader of Pewter Gym today, how would the young, inspired trainers earn their first badge? Fighting a Steelix, with a Bulbasaur?

How could trainers who start after Ash beats the Kanto region get one badge without training Pokemon as fast as Ash (and technically faster to reach Ash's level in the first place).

Even with Ash's million level Pikachu who should be past Lv.100 by now, couldn't beat Roark on the first try, how do you expect little Johnny to get a badge without grinding on Route "near my home" for ten years to get a strong enough Pokemon. Even so, the Gymleader would have trained more, so you'd have to grind in a harder place.

Gymleaders should have a reserved set of Pokemon(s) for the young trainers who aspire to be great and actually have a shot at winning. Like, Brock should have a Geodude and Onix set aside for Gym battling and people like Roark to have simple Pokemon, not use his steriod-enhanced Cranidos against Johnny's Lv.10 Starly. Seriously, I feel sorry for those new kids.

Just for thought.

Well, maybe gym leaders have a quota of badges to give out. If they do not meet that quota, then they will use weaker Pokémon to battle trainers unless, as already pointed out, if the gym leader didn't like a particular trainer for being too arrogant. (Maybe Gary would have earned an Earth Badge if he wasn't arrogant provoking Giovanni to use Mewtwo.) However, that doesn't explain why all those trainers got defeated at Vermillion City by Lt. Surge. Maybe the Pokémon League was about to reprimand him and tell him to use weaker Pokémon. But in the earlier episodes, it seems that Badges actually mean something since none of the characters like AJ said that the gym leaders went easy on Ash and held back -- he just assumed that the gym leaders were weak and that's why he got the badges.

You cannot have the same rules for the Pokémon League because trainers of all skill levels compete there. Those who got their badges when gym leaders were using their strongest Pokémon set would have an advantage over those who got them when the gym leader was using his weakest Pokémon.

One could also point out why do Pokémon of one level live in one area and higher level Pokémon live in another. Why do weak Pokémon live around Pallet Town and Viridian City while strong Pokémon are found along Victory Road?

 

[I Laugh at your Misfortune!]

I think we're all looking at this in too much of a game context. The anime places much less emphasis on training and levels and evolution, and a much greater emphasis on strategies. Treecko was able to beat Hariyama but not Makuhita because Ash wasn't thinking when he fought Makuhita. When he fought Hariyama, he'd made a plan and he stuck to it. Sure, he was facing a tougher opponent, but he fought a very different battle himself.

 

[Nina]

It's true, anime-wise anyone can lose to anyone if they don't have a good strategy, it's not directly about levels.

Hmm, but anyways, I think because most gyms are specific to one type that maybe they have a large amount of pokemon of that type that they train and switch them out continuously. A gym leader is pretty much a master of that type and they would probably use pokemon to match the level of the trainer but they know how to use it well, that's the challenge.
This all depends on if the gym leaders really do have a lot of pokemon of the same type. We don't see it with Brock, but Misty seems to have various other water pokemon that live in the pool and Erica has a whole greenhouse full of them. Just a theory.

 

[Teh Blazer]

Very true everyone.

Keeping arrogant kids in their place would be a nice excuse to use your over-levelled Gyarados (Misty-wise) until the kid turns humble. Then, when not arrogant, if he wins, the kid would get a higher sense of pride, thinking he beat a trainer with a Gyarados, when the Gym leader didn't use Gyarados in the actual rematch.

I do think that strategy is everything in the anime. How a new, mean trainer like Paul could beat Ash, boy who beat all of the Frontier Brains, with his Elekid and Starly is beyond me. By all means, if this theory holds true, any new trainer has the shot of beating Ash. Either some kids, like Paul, are born with special talent that helps them kick "Frontier Brain level" butt, or Ash has sucky strategies.

One could also point out why do Pokémon of one level live in one area and higher level Pokémon live in another. Why do weak Pokémon live around Pallet Town and Viridian City while strong Pokémon are found along Victory Road?

That makes me feel even more sorry for young trainers in places like Fuschia One Island, Blackthorn, Lilycove, etc. They need to start off at some easy place, not in a town with Lv. 30 Pokemon around them constantly knocking them out. You can get stronger (through, as stated Strategies), but the road will be very tough, so tough many will drop out. I know, harsh world.

 

[Unown_]

Paul wasn't a starting trainer, he has traveled through other regions as well.

That makes me feel even more sorry for young trainers in places like Fuschia One Island, Blackthorn, Lilycove, etc. They need to start off at some easy place, not in a town with Lv. 30 Pokemon around them constantly knocking them out. You can get stronger (through, as stated Strategies), but the road will be very tough, so tough many will drop out. I know, harsh world.

If it was a game, it would strategically be better to move to an area were the Pokemon have less higher levels.

In the anime it has been pointed out numerous times that Pokemon can become stronger/better through other method rather than beating the crap out of opponents.
Improving stamina, train in evasive maneuvers, improve an attack and as said before by others think up a good strategy to counter a trainer, the list goes on.

As for gymleaders, I doubt they'll use weaker levels of Pokemon to beginners. It's not like gymleaders can tell beforehand how strong trainers are and wheter or not they are beginners.

 

[Nina]

(Beaten, hah. Internet went out.)

I don't think it's possible for a completely new trainer to beat just anybody, as Paul actually isn't a starting trainer, but you know that kids like Paul (probably) and Gary did fairly well starting out because of certain other things. Gary is fairly intelligent and Paul has been around a great trainer, Reggie.
Though environment isn't the only reason, Ash was a dumbass to begin with not to mention he seemed to know nothing about pokemon at all. As in an everyday non-trainer knows more.

A gym leader might start off with a not weakling, but not super strong pokemon and gauge a trainer's experience from there.
From the looks of it I don't think the Gym Leaders collaborate at all so it might be a style that they "should" use, but don't really have to. (Giovanni and Lt. Surge)
It would make sense in the games that they would have to as trainers have to beat all of them, but in the anime there are apparently more than 8 gym leaders, so if they lost they could just go to a different city.

 

[GymLeaderMisty]

Paul wasn't a starting trainer, he has traveled through other regions as well.



If it was a game, it would strategically be better to move to an area were the Pokemon have less higher levels.

In the anime it has been pointed out numerous times that Pokemon can become stronger/better through other method rather than beating the crap out of opponents.
Improving stamina, train in evasive maneuvers, improve an attack and as said before by others think up a good strategy to counter a trainer, the list goes on.

As for gymleaders, I doubt they'll use weaker levels of Pokemon to beginners. It's not like gymleaders can tell beforehand how strong trainers are and wheter or not they are beginners.

There are ways that a inexperience Pokemon can defeat a experienced Pokemon. The best example is when Ash's Krabby/Kingler swept Mandi's team (Exeggutor, Seadra, and Golbat) despite the fact that Krabby had no previous battling experience, nor was Ash even familiar with its abilities.

 

[weedle_mchairybug]

There are ways that a inexperience Pokemon can defeat a experienced Pokemon. The best example is when Ash's Krabby/Kingler swept Mandi's team (Exeggutor, Seadra, and Golbat) despite the fact that Krabby had no previous battling experience, nor was Ash even familiar with its abilities.

There was also the fact that Caterpie defeated Ekans, Koffing, and Meowth in one fell swoop despite not only being completely inexperienced at the time, but he was barely even functioning at the time of the battle. Then again, several people (both in the show and in the fanbase) have stated that JJM were weakling losers anyhow (Which, of course, served as a very big influential factor to how I now see Gym Leaders as being weak, especially after the disaster known as Hoenn's Gym Leaders, as well as my distaste for how Misty was removed.)

 

[CliveKoopa]

If say, Brock were the Gymleader of Pewter Gym today, how would the young, inspired trainers earn their first badge? Fighting a Steelix, with a Bulbasaur? .

Who says that every new trainer has to go to Pewter City to get their first badge? There are more than 8 badges in the anime in Kanto so there is no rule to say that you have to go to Pewter City.

How could trainers who start after Ash beats the Kanto region get one badge without training Pokemon as fast as Ash (and technically faster to reach Ash's level in the first place).

I'm not sure I understand your question but all I can say is it doesn't matter how fast a trainer trains his pokemon. He/she could go as slow as he/she wants.

Even with Ash's million level Pikachu who should be past Lv.100 by now, couldn't beat Roark on the first try, how do you expect little Johnny to get a badge without grinding on Route "near my home" for ten years to get a strong enough Pokemon. Even so, the Gymleader would have trained more, so you'd have to grind in a harder place.

Like my first answer, there is no rule in the anime to say that a trainer has to go to certain gyms as there are more than 8 gyms in each region.

 

[Arumus]

Not all young trainers start going to Gyms in the anime. Remember the lad with the Sandshrew and the many Pokémon? He challenged himself to win 100 battles before he started collecting his Gym Badges.

Ash on the other hand was fortunate with badges early on, being given most and fortunate against Brock with the 'water sprinklers'. Plus there is more than eight gyms in each region, some gyms are tougher, some not very strong or 'prestigous'. Young trainers could challenge weaker gyms, such as Bugsy or Gym's with new leaders who may not be up to the standard yet. Plus i'm sure other trainers got given badges like Ash did. A trainer with a Wartortle, Charmeleon and Ivysaur did, he was given the Cascade badge without even battling.

Its just one of the animes mysteries, or maybe it's mixture between luck and talent.

 

[weedle_mchairybug]

Who says that every new trainer has to go to Pewter City to get their first badge? There are more than 8 badges in the anime in Kanto so there is no rule to say that you have to go to Pewter City.



I'm not sure I understand your question but all I can say is it doesn't matter how fast a trainer trains his pokemon. He/she could go as slow as he/she wants.



Like my first answer, there is no rule in the anime to say that a trainer has to go to certain gyms as there are more than 8 gyms in each region.

Maybe not in Kanto or Johto, but it was heavily implied in AG and DP (or at least in AG) that a trainer has to go to the gyms in a specific order in the region (For example, in AG, Norman stated that Ash was actually supposed to fight him later on, and the first gym leader that he should face is Roxanne. Why suggest something like that if there wasn't an order? Not to mention the fact that Paul went to Oreburgh Gym even though he could have easily challenged Veilstone Gym, Pastoria Gym, Snowpoint Gym, or Canalave Gym first.).

 

[curiousnathan]

Maybe not in Kanto or Johto, but it was heavily implied in AG and DP (or at least in AG) that a trainer has to go to the gyms in a specific order in the region (For example, in AG, Norman stated that Ash was actually supposed to fight him later on, and the first gym leader that he should face is Roxanne. Why suggest something like that if there wasn't an order? Not to mention the fact that Paul went to Oreburgh Gym even though he could have easily challenged Veilstone Gym, Pastoria Gym, Snowpoint Gym, or Canalave Gym first.).

Well maybe it was the closest gym? And maybe Norman recommended that ash battle roxanne (Not in as the specific gym leader order) but just in his oppiion roxane would be a good match for him.

 

[weedle_mchairybug]

Well maybe it was the closest gym? And maybe Norman recommended that ash battle roxanne (Not in as the specific gym leader order) but just in his oppiion roxane would be a good match for him.

Well, the way the plot summary worded AG003's plotline was that Norman said that Roxanne should be fought first, and that he was actually supposed to be fought later on.

 

[CliveKoopa]

If Ash had three Pokemon then he would have faced Norman first before Roxanne.

 

[Unown_]

No reviving of threads that are older than a month thank you.