Potential Bernie Sanders Debate?

[Somewhere_]

Roger Ver of Bitcoin has recently made a video challenging Bernie Sanders to a debate with Adam Kokesh, who will be running for president in 2020. In return, Ver will be donating $100,000 worth of Bitcoin to a charity of Sanders' and Kokesh's choosing. The video is on Adam Kokesh's youtube channel: https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=fxzb2mU9KII

Update #1 https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=GXgABEqoUX4 <-- Adam Kokesh interviewing a Bernie Sanders supporter. She was very well spoken and I thought she represented Sanders really well. She makes me like Bernie more. I thought Kokesh brought up good points, but failed to make certain key connections. Same with the lady, but both were sort of limited by time restraints. I would like to see her in a future video as they discussed at the end. She seems open minded and reasonable, and makes me think cooperation between political ideologies is possible. This interaction sort of makes me lose faith in Kokesh a bit in his ability. If he keeps repeating the same rhetoric like he does, I feel Ver's challenge will backfire. But at the same time, he was sort of limited.

Update #2 https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=h3SgQvvAqjI A Voluntaryist and Kokesh supporter just spoke to Bernie Sanders asking him about debating Kokesh and if he knew about Voluntaryism.

Regardless if you like Ver or even agree with his political leanings:

Do you all think Bernie Sanders will accept? Should he accept?

Would you watch the debate, whether live or prerecorded? Do you think others, other than Bernie or Kokesh followers, would be interested?

Do you think this will help Bernie Sanders further his presidency, or hinder it? Will it help Kokesh gain more recognition before he officially announced his run for presidency (I think 2017)?

 

[Kanzler]

Ohnonononononono

The mainstream media could get all up on this. This will make Sanders look like a protest candidate, and not serious. This will undermine the already poor public perception of his candidacy and the people who support him. This could make Adam Kokesh look better for having a debate with a serious presidential candidate. It's a very unbalanced proposition that only serves to weaken Sanders.

 

[Somewhere_]

Ohnonononononono

The mainstream media could get all up on this. This will make Sanders look like a protest candidate, and not serious. This will undermine the already poor public perception of his candidacy and the people who support him. This could make Adam Kokesh look better for having a debate with a serious presidential candidate. It's a very unbalanced proposition that only serves to weaken Sanders.

Personally, as a Kokesh follower, I would have to agree with you. This seems like more of an ego thing, but i dont know if it really is considering Kokesh was not Ver's first choice. I dont know the other potential candidates, but I think Stefan Molyneux was most like his first choice because he is a VERY strong debater. Adam Kokesh seems to be a weaker debater than Molyneux, and most certainly has less experience.

While I believe the debate might be even, regardless of the result, I believe it would push Kokesh forward a ton and hold Sanders back. However, Sanders might be in luck because I do not think the mainstream media will cover this considering Kokesh is a Voluntaryist.

 

[Kanzler]

Personally, as a Kokesh follower, I would have to agree with you. This seems like more of an ego thing, but i dont know if it really is considering Kokesh was not Ver's first choice. I dont know the other potential candidates, but I think Stefan Molyneux was most like his first choice because he is a VERY strong debater. Adam Kokesh seems to be a weaker debater than Molyneux, and most certainly has less experience.

While I believe the debate might be even, regardless of the result, I believe it would push Kokesh forward a ton and hold Sanders back. However, Sanders might be in luck because I do not think the mainstream media will cover this considering Kokesh is a Voluntaryist.

The mainstream media don't have to give a damn about what Voluntaryism is. All they have to say is that they're conspiracy theorists with crazy ideas with zero practicality and make that association with Bernie Sanders. They'll cover it all right.

 

[Somewhere_]

The mainstream media don't have to give a damn about what Voluntaryism is. All they have to say is that they're conspiracy theorists with crazy ideas with zero practicality and make that association with Bernie Sanders. They'll cover it all right.

I take that back then. Fox might be all over that one. And as soon as that association between Sanders and the "crazy" people, he is thought of lower than he already is. Although Kokesh and Voluntaryists aren't conspiracy theorists!

 

[Kanzler]

I take that back then. Fox might be all over that one. And as soon as that association between Sanders and the "crazy" people, he is thought of lower than he already is. Although Kokesh and Voluntaryists aren't conspiracy theorists!

Here's an example of how they try to slander socialism:



Fox News got absolutely wrecked here. But Voluntaryism has a much lower profile than socialism, so it's unlikely that mainstream media would feel the need to invite a proponent of Voluntaryism for interview. And imagine just how they'd try to distort that ideology.

"To get away from getting too bogged down by the details here..."

 

[Somewhere_]

Here's an example of how they try to slander socialism:



Fox News got absolutely wrecked here. But Voluntaryism has a much lower profile than socialism, so it's unlikely that mainstream media would feel the need to invite a proponent of Voluntaryism for interview. And imagine just how they'd try to distort that ideology.

"To get away from getting too bogged down by the details here..."

Like Republicans can talk about human rights lol. A bunch of hypocrites.

I am personally against Socialism, but where was the argument here? The guy said it was a violation of human rights, but fails to 1) give a definition 2) mention what human rights were violated

Actually surprisingly I think they invited Kokesh to speak twice on Fox about the Iraq war and gun rights. Of course he was shunned and quieted when he started ripping on veterans and soldiers in the military. I doubt anyone remembers him tho.

 

[Neil Peart]

Bernie has bigger fish to fry than some libertarian YouTuber looking for some publicity.

 

[Pokemon Game Fan]

I appreciate Kokesh's fight against police corruption, but I don't agree with anything else he says.

That said, I don't think Bernie should do this. I feel like he doesn't have much to gain from this at all.

 

[Somewhere_]

I appreciate Kokesh's fight against police corruption, but I don't agree with anything else he says.

That said, I don't think Bernie should do this. I feel like he doesn't have much to gain from this at all.

Bernie really only has things to lose with this debate. I do not think he will accept because he did not accept Rand Paul's request for a debate, and at least by debating Paul, he has things to gain because Paul is a very well known figure.

 

[Pokemon Game Fan]

I completely agree with you. Bernie should focus on getting some more state wins.

 

[TheBadPixels]

Is anyone still following Bernie's success? It looks like he's closing the gap :)

 

[Somewhere_]

Is anyone still following Bernie's success? It looks like he's closing the gap :)

I feel like Bernie fans make him seem more successful than he really is, but I do not know the delegate count and stuff like that.

I disagree a lot with Bernie Sanders, but I have to admit that I have been liking him more and more. I would like to see him beat Hillary because he is much more honest and passionate. I think a lot of Libertarians dislike Bernie's political leanings (Im the direct opposite in fact), but at least recognize him as an honest individual and great speaker. However, they still have a huge issue with a lot of Bernie's supporters. :/

if it comes down to Sanders vs Trump, I think Trump would win tho. If it is Hillary vs Trump, Hillary would most likely win I think. Idk who I would support because I believe both of them would hurt in different ways.

 

[Kanzler]

I feel like Bernie fans make him seem more successful than he really is, but I do not know the delegate count and stuff like that.

I disagree a lot with Bernie Sanders, but I have to admit that I have been liking him more and more. I would like to see him beat Hillary because he is much more honest and passionate. I think a lot of Libertarians dislike Bernie's political leanings (Im the direct opposite in fact), but at least recognize him as an honest individual and great speaker. However, they still have a huge issue with a lot of Bernie's supporters. :/

if it comes down to Sanders vs Trump, I think Trump would win tho. If it is Hillary vs Trump, Hillary would most likely win I think. Idk who I would support because I believe both of them would hurt in different ways.

Sanders actually does better in head-to-head polls against Trump than Clinton. Trump and Sanders are both pitched as anti-establishment candidates. That's one less arsenal that Trump can unleash on Sanders. If we know what Trump is good at, it's playing towards people's emotions and he would exploit Clinton's untrustworthiness like nobody's business.

 

[OmegaRuby and AlphaSapphire]

Hillary has so many issues, that if she didn't have the Democratic establishment behind her she probably would be trailing Sanders by now, or at least be leading by less than she already is.

 

[Somewhere_]

Sanders actually does better in head-to-head polls against Trump than Clinton. Trump and Sanders are both pitched as anti-establishment candidates. That's one less arsenal that Trump can unleash on Sanders. If we know what Trump is good at, it's playing towards people's emotions and he would exploit Clinton's untrustworthiness like nobody's business.

Wow! I did not expect that to be honest. True, I guess Trump could beat Hillary, but it really depends if the Republicans unite. And I have heard the Democrats are pretty split as well though.

 

[Kanzler]

Wow! I did not expect that to be honest. True, I guess Trump could beat Hillary, but it really depends if the Republicans unite. And I have heard the Democrats are pretty split as well though.

Democrats are split, but I think they'd rally around Sanders or Clinton in the general - more so Sanders than Clinton. I mean, what are Democrats going to say - oh he's not moderate enough for me, I want him to be more realistic when fighting for the policies I want. At the end of the day, he's going to try and push through Democrat-friendly policies and he's honest, so push comes to shove, people who voted for Clinton in the primary won't have much to complain about. If Clinton wins, some Sanders' supporters might be salty, but I think a large portion would back Clinton anyways simply because for practicality, and even if a significant amount of Sanders supporter stay home, if Trump or Cruz is the nominee, I think a significant number of moderate Republicans or independents would stay home as well so that'll balance out.

I don't know if Trump could unite the Republican party. Some of the leaders have rallied behind them, but yet others haven't, and I've heard that some of the leaders have taken back their promise to support the eventual frontrunner (read: Trump) no matter who it is. Kasich is the best Republican candidate out there to win the general election but I don't know if enough conservatives would want him to represent them. I don't think I know enough about what's going on in the Republican party because it looks so damn complicated with major rifts between social conservatives, libertarians, tea-partiers, the establishment and Trumpists I guess now. There are obviously differences in the Democratic party as well, but I don't think anybody's talking about it as if it could disintegrate the party.

I think we should carry on this conversation in the Elections thread if you want, cuz this is starting to stray away from the Voluntaryist debate.