Prove that I exist

[DavyJones4our]

Memories, memories is the key word to existence. Memories is what makes people who they are, if we were part of someone's imagination they would have to create every single entity's memory, but that would take more then a life time to do, so therefore we exist due to memories

Ooh, I like that theory. Though, it is possible, for the mind to be so immensely powerful to make up false backrounds (as Chibi paritally brought up).

 

[Legobricks]

If someone imagined it, this world would be a lot more interesting.
Someone could have a dream that a woman gives birth to an octopus, so if life is a dream, I see no reason that couldn't happen.

Pure imagination does not follow logic, reality does; nor does it hold truth, thus in theory we could never prove to you that anything is real.

 

[Zet]

forgot to mention, just one memory for a person to make they would be dead before they could make another memory unless they are short lives:P but yeah i like this thread so far, questioning existence

 

[Ryoutarou]

Memories, memories is the key word to existence. Memories is what makes people who they are, if we were part of someone's imagination they would have to create every single entity's memory, but that would take more then a life time to do, so therefore we exist due to memories

Not necessarily. You can remember certain events, but can you remember what's in between that? If your birthday is on August 23rd, you can remember pretty much everything about that date, but can you remember what you were doing 42 days before that if nothing special happened? Where did that time go? Was it lived if you can't actually recall it? If someone were to actually program memories, they wouldn't need to make a life time, just a handful of events. Birthdays, dates, weddings, funerals, sports outings, academic events, you can probably grab a list of what would be considered major life events and cater them to certain personality types.

Of course our reality is probably some speck on a tiny flower being protected by some giant elephant. Or not. We'll never know.

 

[DavyJones4our]

If someone imagined it, this world would be a lot more interesting.
Someone could have a dream that a woman gives birth to an octopus, so if life is a dream, I see no reason that couldn't happen.

Pure imagination does not follow logic, reality does; nor does it hold truth, thus in theory we could never prove to you that anything is real.

Good concept, but not everyone is able to exactly control their imagination (or if you'd like, exchange that word for "dreams") very easily. And it is possible that this world that we percieve as "real" (which very possible is non-existential) is indeed all part of a fantasy world, and the real world is much more boring than this. Everything here we can't see as being all that glamourous because we're consistantly exposed to it, very rarely does anything truly "new" or "original" come up. But either way, it's still the point of it's all possibly false, and we don't need something "out of the blue" to show that we're not existant.

And, isn't imagination a sort of reality? So, does it, or does it not, follow logic?

Not necessarily. You can remember certain events, but can you remember what's in between that? If your birthday is on August 23rd, you can remember pretty much everything about that date, but can you remember what you were doing 42 days before that if nothing special happened? Where did that time go? Was it lived if you can't actually recall it? If someone were to actually program memories, they wouldn't need to make a life time, just a handful of events. Birthdays, dates, weddings, funerals, sports outings, academic events, you can probably grab a list of what would be considered major life events and cater them to certain personality types.

Of course our reality is probably some speck on a tiny flower being protected by some giant elephant. Or not. We'll never know.

You can talk to the elephant, too? Nah, but in all reality (rimshot), memories aren't all that reliable, as you've stated. Also, what of those memories that we have, but have never happened. Like when someone makes the error "Man, that baseball game last Saturday was fun" but it was actually a memory from several years ago, or it's possible, not even that, it could've been a dream their brain processed as memory. Either way, it's nothing close to being able to provide evidence of existance.

 

[Zet]

If this world(existence) was created by something(anything is possible to create something), it was a terrible choice to make it so boring

 

[DavyJones4our]

If this world(existence) was created by something(anything is possible to create something), it was a terrible choice to make it so boring

But that's just it, we only see it as boring because it's nothing out of the typical for us, our perception is same-old; while it's nothing new for us, it's exciting and pure fantasy for it's creator.

 

[Virtual Chatot]

What defines you, as a person and conscious entity, is your past experiences molding your mind into your characteristics, habits, and a thinking pattern.

False Memories wouldn't mold your being, so you would feel very out of place if you had some.

If this world(existence) was created by something(anything is possible to create something), it was a terrible choice to make it so boring

This reality is only boring if you do the same thing over and over, or you are choosing to make it boring. Mixing it up a little will make it not to be so boring.

 

[Legobricks]

Good concept, but not everyone is able to exactly control their imagination (or if you'd like, exchange that word for "dreams") very easily. And it is possible that this world that we percieve as "real" (which very possible is non-existential) is indeed all part of a fantasy world, and the real world is much more boring than this. Everything here we can't see as being all that glamourous because we're consistantly exposed to it, very rarely does anything truly "new" or "original" come up. But either way, it's still the point of it's all possibly false, and we don't need something "out of the blue" to show that we're not existant.

And, isn't imagination a sort of reality? So, does it, or does it not, follow logic?

Imagination can be made to follow logic, but it isn't required to.
Pure imagination as I mentioned, would come up with completely original and unheard of things.

Anyway, the main point: Even if this world is made up, it's still your reality as you are stuck in it with only death to part from it.

 

[Richard Lynch]

Do you exist? Hmmm... let me think for a secondYES. You do.

Scientific proof? You're made of matter. Matter exists. We can see it, touch it (although touching you is way down on my list of things to do; prolly down past lighting my own house on fire), and record it.

Plato's cave idea is really only for concepts; that which can't be recorded or measured. If a rock is outside of that cave, yet you can't see it, does it exist? Well... yeah. Just 'cause you can't see it doesn't mean it vanished. Going by the way you seem to be taking it, it can be said that everything not in your line of sight or peripheral vision does not exist. Not exactly scientific, if you ask me.

The Earth being flat was a theory. We couldn't really see it. We had to assume based on what we could see. But now we can... so unless there's some optical illusion caused by the bending of light or space-time, it's basically a fact.

Ah, but what about schizophrenia, I hear some of you cry. Where someone sees something that isn't really there. Or a mirage in the desert, hallucinations, etc. And I have no real answer for you on that one... other than the fact that what one sees under these conditions is not made up of matter.

So really, the entire idea of this existence stuff is shot down with the idea of matter. If something is made up of stuff, it probably exists. The ONLY exception to this is the [documented] idea that a photon (what makes up light) has a mass of about 0.0kg, and that's often messed with me. But light is still in theory in the scientific community, so we've got time.

So, in conclusion: yes, you do exist. No way to argue against it, scientifically.

 

[Captain Arcane]

Listen, there are many forms of "existence"

First off, don't be dumb, of course you exist on earth, as a human being. Your not some astral ghost on the internet.

Second, Like I said before, there are many forms of existence. For one, you've come on the pokecommunity, and have created a profile, therefore you also exist on the pokemon community. But if you did not create a profile on, lets say...serebii, then you would not exist on serebii.

And I wanna say it again, you "DO" exist. And if you can't except that, then you probably do not want to exist.....

 

[Jaimes]

Do you exist? Hmmm... let me think for a secondYES. You do.

Scientific proof? You're made of matter. Matter exists. We can see it, touch it (although touching you is way down on my list of things to do; prolly down past lighting my own house on fire), and record it.

Dude, thankyou. This is essentially what I would have said if I wasn't on his ignore list XD

If you ran the word 'proof' through a dictionary website. The first definition is "evidence sufficient to establish a thing as true, or to produce belief in its truth". The keyword being evidence.

There is already evidence of occurence - that something has posted a long-winded silly thread...
There is observational evidence- such as evidence of a linked myspace account in his profile.
And theoretical evidence- if he wasn't real, who in their right mind would waste their time programming a supercomputer to behave in such a manner? and why?

However I'd also like to point out somethings he said in some PMs.
1) "Science is not truth, science is only another way to help us cope and believe that we understand, just like typical religion." ~ science is not a matter of belief.... nor is it a bundle of falsehoods.
2) "You use a dictionary, a bible of the Science of English Diction." ~ cool. So dictionary definitions are flawed as well. TAKE THAT ENGLISH LANGUAGE

And no I'm not going to add him to my ignore list as a way of being 'fair'. That's ludicrous..that way I couldn't respond and pwn.

 

[Scales]

Davy Jones why do you wish to know if you exist or not? People build their existence with their actions. If you are just a figment in someone's imagination then so what. The imagination still exists. Why do you think that the person thinking you up isn't just a figment in some other beings imagination? Or maybe your thinking of a cartoon character. Well maybe that cartoon character is also thinking the same thing. "Hey maybe I don't exist and someone is thinking up what I am doing"

Anyway this sort of topic is way to complicated for mere mortals to decipher. You would need to think on it for a long time to truly prove without a shadow of a doubt that you do or don't exist

 

[sims796]

Listen, there are many forms of "existence"

First off, don't be dumb, of course you exist on earth, as a human being. Your not some astral ghost on the internet.

Second, Like I said before, there are many forms of existence. For one, you've come on the pokecommunity, and have created a profile, therefore you also exist on the pokemon community. But if you did not create a profile on, lets say...serebii, then you would not exist on serebii.

And I wanna say it again, you "DO" exist. And if you can't except that, then you probably do not want to exist.....

That's awfully rude. Regardless, you just made a huge pointless loop of things that doesn't make much sense. Many forms of existances? What would it take to actually please you? Regardless, which form of existance are you talking about?

You're making up questions that are rather irrational, and doesn't include much logic oter than "if a tree falls in a forest, does it make a sound?" I would think so, if it made a sound when I'm near, I don't see why it wouldn't otherwise. If we exist as part of some divine loser wo has nothing better to do than think of us, then we exist on that plane, regardless. The way I see it, if you doubt your existance so muc, go cut your hand. When you see blood, and feel pain, that should answer your question. Not that I'm condoning cutting, those types of people annoy me.

 

[El Gofre]

I doubt this will ever be answered, as existance is interperated differently by everyone. I class existance as something that can initiate a reaction in any of the 5 senses, I can see me, hear me, smell me, touch me (Hahaha i touch myself :P) and taste me. I can see the stars, hear the wind, feel gravity, you get the idea. Your definition of existance will differ to mine, but in my opinion, yes you exist.

 

[Waffle-San]

Some people don't seem to get the question. When your on a RP or writing a story you've created characters, places, people and a reality for that story. At the same time you don't imagine every event of every person. Not to say that's impossible. So using science as an example doesn't really work, as that could also be a creation of the well "creator"

The problem with the, "then why don't women give birth to octopi" theory is also shortlived because the person or thing that's thought us up could live in a world where woman do give birth to octopus, so the idea of people giving birth to people could be a wild idea and pure fantasy to them.

Now I do believe we exist, even if only figurativly. Now the ability to think could be proof enough for some people but I'm going to say we do because, in a way, everything exists.
LEts use your example of Dragons. Now there isn't really any scientifical proof that they existed, of course there's also no real proof saying they didn't except that we havn't found any evidence. Okay I'm getting off topic.
The point is, I believe Dragon's exist, and just the fact that we can look at pictures of them or speak of them and people will know what we're talking about proves they exist. Maybe we can't touch one but they still exist in our mind. An oooglyrara might not exist to you but maybe in my mind its some extravagant creature I dream of.
Our existance or life might jsut be a series of stories and mind within eachother but to someone or something, we do exist.
It's like when someone insults your favourite anime character, they don't exist in our physical world but you'll still defend them. Why? Because to you they're real and a part of your life.


And plus your actions still effect other people, and even if I don't "exist" in the eyes of my friends or the people around me, I do. So I might as well act like I do and play along.


Well there's my streched out 2 cents.

 

[Spaekle Oddberry]

THE AVERAGE DEBATE THREAD ON PC:

- Someone poses a question that could probably be debated at length (and probably has been several times in the past)
- Random people add in random bits of 'two cents'
- A handful of smart people (including but not limited to: Jaimes, sims796, Heatran, and probably some other people too) come on with posts that could and should basically end the thread but don't for some reason
- It becomes more and more glaringly obvious that OP has no clue what the hell he's talking about
- Debate starts to go in circles between the people who do know what they're talking about and the people who don't realize that by trying to prove their point they're just making themselves look more stupid
- Eventually everyone just gets tired of it and the thread gets locked.

I don't see any way this can be debated any more than it already has been. :\ You exist. You have influence on your surroundings and on other people. Other people acknowledge your existence. Just throwing out "well how do you PROOOOOOVE IT? :O" logic is going to keep this thread going for a lot longer than it needs to, and it probably already has. :|

 

[Smarties-chan]

It seems nothing can make you believe we exist, but allow me to ask you one thing: does it really matter to begin with? Even if our lives don't exist and are just figments of someone's imagination, we would still live under the illusion that we have our own free will. If we feel like we exist, how is it different from actually existing? Why ponder about things we'll never find the answer to instead of just enjoying life? Whether or not we truly exist doesn't matter as long as it feels like we do. Nerevarine's post summed up everything else I was going to say.

 

[♥vampy©valentine♥]

its impossible to prove that you exist. you must define many,many things, like the word exist. Someone might think that if we are living in a state of altered connousis (sp?) is not "existing" becuase what we think is "existing" isn't, while another person will say it is because you would have to "exist" to be in the altered state .... it doesn't matter anyway because even when we die we will not find the answer

 

[Chikara]

[/Didn't read what you wrote]
^That's a LIE. I read a paragraph and then skimmed.

Slap yourself in the face. CHECKLIST:
Did you hit something?
Did you feel it?
Did it HURT?

If yes to one or more of these, you're there, good friend :>
This is our reality whether you know how to deal with it or not.