Rate my Haymaker Team!

[BeachBoy]

Meet The Haymakers!

Well, I've been undergoing tutoring by my good friend Slice N' Dice...We were working with my old Rain Trick Team, which was rain dance & trick room by the way :P, and surprisingly came up with this offensive team. It has done very well for me, winning around 8 of every 10. Yet, still looking for that elusive top 100. So far I ask you not replace swampert, as it's really the glue of the team and has never failed me...Though if for the better, I will make correct changes. Please provide comments, the more the marrier! You may have seen this team played by Slice T_A recently, he was testing it for me, Thanks Slice...Ok on to the Haymakers...

Oh yeah and it may seem rushed, really no cals, bunch of educated guesses so far, so if I sound like a complete idiot guessing some wild things, bare with me...I am being tutored, so remember that. X_x

Also I would like to apologize if this RMT is in any violation of any rules, I don't think it is, Also I am NOT going to just say standard, Im going to lay everything out for you.

Now at this time, I'm new to PC, This team has received testing, and still is. The standard Mixmence was in over celebi for some time, though recently celebi has been added.
Also the Calm mind set now used on Rachi over the original support set. And instead of cursing, I use food...so please don't be offended by the word 'fudge'.

EDIT: Azelf now caries HP [ice] fudges over any dragon, Nature fixed to mild so U-turn can do more didly squat, subtracted 2 speed evs to azelf, lol I CANT DO MATH xD and moved the 36 hp over to attack, but we'll see how that goes...also team true weakness = my experience and prediction, if I mess up it is the teams cost, That as of now is the biggest problem.

Test results: (all still in testing)
Celebi test over Mence/Lucario: Amazing results all around the board, If anyone had the best chance of replacing mence, it was celebi...
Calm Mind set rachi over Support set: Great views, as with the support set it gave my opponent a chance to regain their footing which is not what we want when we're haymakers, though the CM set lost wish and U-turn, which wasnt that drastic, but missed...
Lucario over garchomp: not tested yet.

The French Toast
a.k.a Azelf

-------------------------------------
Azelf @ Choice Scarf
ability: Levitate
nature: Mild (+SAtk, -Def)
evs: 36 attack / 220 Speed / 252 Spc. Attack
~ Fire Blast (French Toast)
~ Psychic
~ U-turn
~ HP [ice] / Grass Knot
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Comments / Suggestions: I had Salamence lead for some time, with success, though testing Azelf made a difference and really have the team a better chance at winning the chess match. Scarfgar has run rampid in today's metagame, well as far as i've seen, and Azelf runs over them like a dump truck. With Choice Scarf I'll rarely be outsped. U-turn provides great scouting, with able time to switch to the nessary Haymaker. Steel Types leads are running away or messed up with a nasty Fire Blast, flamethrower was used previously, though fire blast was a positive change. The problem with azelf as lead really is choice scarf, a wrong prediction, and free set-up for the opponent, well as with any choice user I assume. Azelf brings what bait? most of all, Heatran...now there are many scenarios that come from this though, I could easily switch to swampert just to get eatin by a rare Hidden Power [Grass], switch to my Heatran to get eatin by Earth Power, switch to celebi to eat a fire blast or HP [ice], Heatran can be a problem without knowing of it's set, I most of the time will switch to swampert and take the risk. If I properly U-turn and they switch in their Tran, I could make the easy meat or flee with Garchomp. Azelf also brings space ducks (cresslia), well not really all the time though, but has happened quite a lot as of recent. U-turn once again helps here as I get in Heatran to French Toast it, and mainly swampert to get Stealth Rocks up. Azelf really is the perfect component as a lead, being able to do so much as a choice scarfer with that excellent special attack stat.

The Effort Values can bring a worry, I've used this one, though 222 speed may just be over"speed"kill. 36 HP in case of scarf max speed weavile, though that is very very rare, so probably an adjustment is needed in the Effort Values, which I then put 32 over to attack, with not much of a change. Though they havn't done bad.

Psychic is great as it'll bring some nice STAB and put a nice dent into various others. Choice Specs was an option here on azelf though scarf just does more. I like speed and that's why this team hates trick room. Explosion is an option here, though is it needed, so far...no. U-turn has given more with the scouting aspect here. Explosion is nice for blissey and can really hurt things at times, but i'd like to rather not blow azelf up. Spiritomb leads are a worry as it is ether sucker'd like a blind kid, or like a blind kid pursuited by a tiger at the zoo. No offense to the eye challenged btw. Blissey is well Blissey, the fluff really shrugs off azelf, though a smart U-turn can bring in Garchomp for some fun. So far Charm blissey....oh was that annoying, that really has fudged this team up big time, though i've only seen it once, it was hard for the first time.

Azelf was givin Hidden Power Ice to force those dragons out as leads, or fudge them surprisingly and not have that team worry of dragon thus anymore... It has done much better over Grass Knot, and Celebi now uses it, Which gives another reason for Hidden Power Ice here...

Azelf vs. Top 10 leads...

1. Gyarados (13,425 leads) : fun? yes, STAB psychic will leave a nice dent , not sure on the cals, though if they DD it will get it. Usually I psychic, they dd, I psychic again, BAM, no longer a worry.

2. Gengar (10,069 leads) : any form really, all kicked by Psychic and or U-turn in some cases. Sacrf gar max speed, i believe won't outspeed me, though i'm unsure...who maxs speed with scarf and + speed nature anyway... >_>

3. Salamence (8618 leads) : wOOt! healthy dose of Psychic. or U-turn to swampert. or.....EAT HP[ice]

4. Bronzong (8259 leads) : French Toasted....if they elect to stay in...Heatrans again are troublesome here....

5. Hippowdon (7573 leads) : HP[ice] and make a nice smile on the lazy hippos face, though bringing in swampert = Free Stealth Rocks...

6. Weavile (6739 leads) : U-turn to Swampert, proceed to Jirachi, u-turn...ok'd weavile...or....FRENCH TOASTED! gotta love it right?

7. Tyranitar (6441 leads) : U-turner to swampert who does something that leads to something...yadayada, though U-turn will be a nice shot at the beast.

8. Infernape (6410 leads) : I dare you to keep it in....P.S.Y.C.H.I.C

9. Yanmega (6167 leads) : hmmmm, well yanmega, the bug i always fergot about, well FRENCH TOAST anyone? stupid protect >_> though CS will still outspeed it, I think O.o They most likely would proceed to their Heatran I guess, ut oh...HP ICE BABY!

10. Roserade (5985 leads) : WooT! FRENCH TOAST! or U-turn for rachi to sleep if wrong predict of switch...HP ICE BABY!

Notables: Swampert: will meet Grass Knot at celebi...yeah you better switch him...
Breloom: French Toast or Psychic, really psychic as Heatran could come....
Other: U-turned to swamppy in most cases...
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Spit Fire Trash Can
a.k.a Heatran

-------------------------------------
Heatran @ Life Orb
ability : Flash Fire
nature : Modest (+SAtk, -Atk)
evs : 42 HP / 216 Speed / 252 Spc. Attack
~ Fire Blast (french toast O.o)
~ Earth Power
~ Taunt
~ Hidden Power [Grass]
_________________________________________________
Comments / Suggestions:
Quote:
Originally Posted by Fat Slice N' Dice
My personal Heatran set. My main bulky water counter(wait, WTH?!), Blissey destroyer(double WTH), Bronzong counter, Fire abosorber, Cresselia annihilater, and hard hitter. Easily the most common Heatran switch in is Swampert(along with all of the other bulky waters), so I threw Hidden Power Grass in the set. This allows Heatran to lure in basically any bulky water and crush them with a Life Orbed Hp Grass. Fire Blast+Life Orb inflicts heavy damage to just about anything, and even 2HKOs Garchomp and Salamence without a Flash Fire boost. Also rips Gliscor, big time. Taunt completely shuts down Blissey, allowing her to get gradually killed by constant Fire Blasts. Earth Power rams Tyranitar, Electivire, and other Heatrans, as well as sporting amazing coverage. Evs allow Heatran to outspeed Jolly 252 Speed Tyranitar(I'm looking at you, Mantyke.)

and in my shallow words.....

What a fun pokemon. I love Heatran even if I love water... Heatran's Special Attack Stat hits 393 which in most cases, will put a dent into people. Flash Fire is a great ability, if predicted correctly it works well with Jirachi, or Azelf if ground. Heatran laughs at blissey's attempts with tuant while at the same time predicting swampert switch in, and completely shreding it to bits with Hidden Power Grass. Life Orb gives his power even more hit, like it wasn't enough, and Jirachi will provide wish support when needed. Heatran also french toasts that space duck >_> what an annoying Pokemon that is... Earth power for nice coverage and able to make other heatrans expecting French Toast on Space duck to eat a well predicted Earth Power. Swampert always....switchs in on Heatran, the exact reason for Hidden Power Grass, Taunt really gives the set it's fun in my opinion, tuanting people in general usually isn't my style, though Heatran loves it. Heatran really is just a beast all round, and if my opponent doesnt know the set fully, blissey will think twice, and will regret it by getting tuanted...
_________________________________________________

The Metal Luma
a.k.a Jirachi

-------------------------------------
Jirachi @ Leftovers
Ability: Serene Grace
EVs: 252 HP/88 Spd/170 SAtk
Modest nature (+SAtk, -Atk)
- Thunderbolt
- Substitute
- Psychic
- Calm Mind
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Comments / Suggestions:

Jirachi belongs to the group of special attackers who can defeat the queen of special walling—Blissey. With maximum HP Jirachi can create a Substitute that Blissey is unable to break with Seismic Toss, allowing you to boost with Calm Mind. Wish provides healing support, both for Jirachi and the rest of your team but you're risking getting hit with Blissey's Thunder Wave or Sing.

Psychic provides reliable damage and the 20% chance of dropping the foes Special Defense is a further aid to Jirachi's ability to sweep. The final slot provides extra type coverage. Thunderbolt is the more reliable option for an Electric attack, but Thunder has a 60% chance to paralyze and is worth considering for that reason alone. Hidden Power Fighting provides good coverage alongside Psychic and picks off Tyranitar and Weavile and also hits Heatran. After testing CM rachi is now used over the Wish/U-turn/Support/ what ever you wanna call it. Reason being is that Rachi gave my opponent the chance to regain his/her footing. And a Haymaker (fast relentless punchs) does not want that. So we buffed it up to CM rachi, and the results have been great. It's many resistences provide great help for this team and counters many things as threats for this team Iguess. It really does fit this team quite well..
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Water Fish-Frog
a.k.a Swampert

-------------------------------------
Swampert @ leftovers
ability : Torrent
nature : Relaxed (+Def, -Spd)
evs : 252 HP / 212 Defense / 46 Spec. Attack
~ Earthquake
~ Ice Beam
~ Roar
~ Stealth Rock
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Comments / Suggestions: Mixpert with Roar over Surf, yes a loss of STAB surf, though Ice beam is better for coverage... Earthquake provides STAB, some cverage as always. RAWR! one of the best moves in my opinion, SR is also a craze in today's metagame. Stealth Rock on some free chances and RAWR for scouting and other damage, maybe a low life charizard or articuno...mainly salamence and Gyarados cut themselfs with it. Stealth Rocks really are awesome and great for the team. You all know the rest... Swampert really is the hedgehog? of this squad, He will always get action in a battle, and has won countless matchups to better the team in position for that golden "W". It has handled much more with Ice Beam over Surf....Surf wont touch that annoying dragon. Ice beam on the other hand woops it...
_________________________________________________

Jetstream
a.k.a Garchomp

-------------------------------------
Garchomp @ Choice Scarf
ability : Sand Veil
nature : adamant (+Atk, -SAtk)
evs : 4 HP / 252 Atk / 252 Speed
~ Dragon Claw
~ Outrage
~ Fire Blast (another French Toast! good breakfast ey?)
~ Earthquake
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Comments / Suggestions: "TWO CHOICE SCAFZERS, YUZ NOOB" Yeah i seem to like the blue scarfs lately, Choice Band could be used here, though I'll take the speed. By now you realize, I lack priority, and thus harsh times in the house of mirrors (trick room) Though two choice scarfers can be difficult to handle, it also comes as great reward too.

Quote:
Choice Scarf Garchomp makes a really awesome revenge killer and Choice Scarf user in general. It's still very dangerous with that sky-high Attack stat and a high base-power main attack. Outrage is the main attack here, and I don't have to worry as much about being locked in because you immediately outspeed everything without a Choice Scarf. This Garchomp gets good use out of being a revenge killer—if you send it in on something partially weakened, your opponent has to choose between losing what they have out, or sending something else in to take two Outrage hits. This set's main problem is that its main moves get walled by things like Skarmory, reducing its revenge-kill effectiveness.


Dragon Claw is actually a Great addition, can revenge kill stab without being locked into rage. Better results over Crunch, D-Claw just works...plain and simple. Now Garchomp doesn't really provide that great synergy, but more of the revenge killer/counter. This team itself forces switchs... Garchomp for me has done great, when my opponent has lost their counter or wall for it, It's gg and another win, seriously I love this beast...Others have suggested lucario over here, I on the other hand instinctivly dislike this move. As Garchomp really is winning the battle in the late game...Azelf can do this as well, But it's more of the game starter not finisher. Like the boxing term. "haymaker" Azelf is the first haymaking punch, while Garchomp is the knockout.
_________________________________________________
That Green Time....Thingy?
a.k.a Celebi

-------------------------------------
Celebi @ Leftovers
Ability: Natural Cure
EVs: 216 HP / 42 Atk / 252 Def
Bold nature (+Def, -Atk)
- Grass Knot
- Leech Seed
- Recover
- U-turn
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Comments / Suggestions: Celebi is now over Mixmence, as mixmence really only was used for some surprise as a lead, no lead meant it falled off in performance dramatically. So after some of my good friends tested around, Celebi became a great option. It supports the team, at the same time HURTING GYARADOS! anyways, it's a beast. Mence's speed really was the issue, and celebi gives the team support while still being able to hit hard enough to not let my opponent regain his/her footing. Natural cure is one of the best dang abilities out there in today's metagame. Grass Knot, well...bulky water: nah nah nah hey hey hey GOOD BYE! love that move, and the song :P I really never used a celebi befor to tell the truth, as A. I never got one in the game, B. That many weaknesses made me avoid it, but wow was I missing out on this god. things that have been learned is that, If celebi U-turns to azelf, Azelf is locked into u-turn, this has now been found out to not be a glitch *tear*. Oh well live and learn I guess.
_________________________________________________

Overall Summary: After testing countless times I do have much to learn, Im the idiot that cost this team a game while attacking a 1 hp froslass, if I calm minded instead of thunderbolt on rachi, I probably would have owned the guy...but alas my Noob mind kicks in from time to time, hampering my team greatly...*sigh* Though with all these games Im learning alot, I no longer attack that froslass with 1 hp. I no longer select an attack right away, I take an anaylsis of the sitchu and way my options, hence why Ive actually lost to time out >_>. So honestly this team in the handes of a perfect mind, such as Aldaron and Slice (some of the top 100 players on shoddy battle), is very destructive...In my mind, Ill cost it's w streak on a morning I just wake up.

So that's the team, now every team needs a center strategy and base, this team is an Offensive one and here is Haymakers' purpose:

Team Purpose: Set up SR when can, then continue to use resistences, prediction, and key switching while ripping the opponent apart...

Please feel Free to go test this team out for yourself and make adjustments and what not, though in return PLEASE PLEASE PLEASE, come report back here with your findings and results, Thanks!

Rates, Suggestions, and Help are GREATLY WELCOMED! Thanks for reading too =]


- BeachBoy

ok........wow

Well hmmm how could it not get rated...presentation?: I'm sorry everyone but I'm not a guy that gives one tiny line and says "standard scarfcross". Team: they have gotten me into the top 100 at one point, but I really can't think this team is that bad. Legends? ok if anyone thinks this team is bad becuase of the legends is rediculous, they arn't Ubers, so i'm fine there. Oh! wait it's because im new here isn't it. I guess that could be the case...

I don't know what I did wrong.....well ok Ill just wait some more...sorry for the bump. Hopefully someone will step up to the plate and rate it! :D

 

[Anti]

Actually I just didn't even see the thread lol...probably the same with everybody else, either that or no comment.

I battled this team, so I know the menace it can be. However, a little bit of prediction will really smoke that heatran. Blissey can stall a few turns of PP and random bulky water switches (especially to pressure-stallers like suicune) will sap you down quickly. I generally like taunt on Heatran though, poor Blissey T_T

Snorlax does shut this team down though. It totally eats Heatran alive and Swampert and Jirachi can't even touch it. I know snorlax isn't common, but some people do run it. Celebi takes Crunch hard but is probably your most reliable counter. Body Slam can shut down Scarfchomp with a little parahax as it can then run off. At least you can leech seed it. Snorlax can wall you all day though.

Otherwise, it's really pretty solid. Watch out for Heracross though, as a slip-up in prediction could cost you a key component to your team.

A quick note though...you probably don't even need taunt on Heatran since Jirachi and Celebi shut it down so much...not to mention Garchomp.

Good team, but there are a few attacking threats that really hurt you that you can't really touch besides revenge killing them. This team will pretty much decimate stalling attempts though. 1 HP Froslass really owns this team though :(

Another quick note: The format was excellent, I doubt it was that. Most RMTs give 6 pokemon and that's it, I enjoy thought :)

 

[BeachBoy]

Actually I just didn't even see the thread lol...probably the same with everybody else, either that or no comment.

I battled this team, so I know the menace it can be. However, a little bit of prediction will really smoke that heatran. Blissey can stall a few turns of PP and random bulky water switches (especially to pressure-stallers like suicune) will sap you down quickly. I generally like taunt on Heatran though, poor Blissey T_T

Snorlax does shut this team down though. It totally eats Heatran alive and Swampert and Jirachi can't even touch it. I know snorlax isn't common, but some people do run it. Celebi takes Crunch hard but is probably your most reliable counter. Body Slam can shut down Scarfchomp with a little parahax as it can then run off. At least you can leech seed it. Snorlax can wall you all day though.

Otherwise, it's really pretty solid. Watch out for Heracross though, as a slip-up in prediction could cost you a key component to your team.

A quick note though...you probably don't even need taunt on Heatran since Jirachi and Celebi shut it down so much...not to mention Garchomp.

Good team, but there are a few attacking threats that really hurt you that you can't really touch besides revenge killing them. This team will pretty much decimate stalling attempts though. 1 HP Froslass really owns this team though :(

Another quick note: The format was excellent, I doubt it was that. Most RMTs give 6 pokemon and that's it, I enjoy thought :)

Thank you! So anything I should replace to take care of those problems? Tuant isn't just for blissey, it's mainly cresslia as well.

Yeah predicition is the main problem, I've seen some snorlax but not much, I think garchomp too care of them, I cant really remember...

Again, thank you for the rate!

 

[Anti]

Garchomp beats snorlax, but it can't come in on it, especially with the risk of body slam Paralyzing.

Watch out for stuff like specsmence, that if you're out-predicted will just torch you :(

also, a lot of people will give you heat for having 4 legends. I had a team like that and some people were just brutal :( It's kind of stupid, I know, but yeah.

It's pretty solid overall, with a few weaks somebody will probably take more care in pointing out.

 

[El Gofre]

Very nice team, just two suggestions:
*Change azelf's speed EVs. 222 doesnt divide by 4, so add or takaway two (Unless this where you shoved the spares :))
*You lack any sort of special defence. Im not sure where you could fit one in, but by the sounds of anti's first post you seem to do ok without :P

 

[Jimmyray]

I personally wouldn't feel comfortable running Fire Blast on an Adamant Garchomp... go Hasty!

 

[BeachBoy]

I personally wouldn't feel comfortable running Fire Blast on an Adamant Garchomp... go Jolly!

It has a choice scarf!?!?!?!?! Adamant gives the boost, jolly in my opinion is speed overkill...

FB for steel switch ins by the way...

 

[Syaoran]

Seen that on smogon.. and 1 thing came to my mind - Rain Dance rape! The only thing that might stand a slight chance is Celebi, but it can't take repeated Ice Beams from Ludicolo. You can use smart switching to stall the rain dance, but if you're outpredicted, it's game over.

Disregarding that, the team is good, although from personal experience I can tell you Azelf is a very bad lead. He dies to TTar's Pursuit (U-turn will only make you take double damage), and TTar is quite a common lead. I don't think U-turn is worth using mild over modest, but that's just preference. Basically, any Psychic is a bad lead in this metagame, because you don't know your opponent's team, meaning you can't tell if they have Pursuiters and such.
It's not fun losing your first poke in the beginning of the battle.. let's say they lead with Crobat. You're faster with Choice Scarf, so you'll probably use Psychic. But what if they switch to Weavile / TTar? You're locked on Psychic and they get a free kill with Pursuit.

@Heatran: I don't see how it's beating Blissey with Seismic Toss, especially with recoil damage from Life Orb..

 

[Kittyipawd]

AAAAAHHHH TOO MANY WORDS *head explodes*

umm that was spam , umm syoaran i will make one point , how many rain dance teams do you see these days? Ive seen one so even if he gets raped once he will have many victories

~please dont flame me for not acuallty rating just wanted to make a point ....

 

[El Gofre]

I think legend tamer's just goin round spamming, check his posts. most are stupid lol
As to stop this from being spam, Ill make another post: 42 SpAtt on celebi rather than Att. U-turn is good but i find it only gets used to switch out of things the turner can't hurt. Therefore I'd put the EVs in the more viable move.
Just a thought, I dont have much experience with celebi :)

 

[luke]

One, I use plenty of rain dance teams. They are my favorite theme team to use. Also, TBD and Gofre, please learn to use proper grammar when posting and please don't mini-mod. I can barely comprehend what you just posted.

 

[El Gofre]

Sorry, my grammar is usually good, i just find it easier to abbreviate while typing. It won't happen again.

 

[luke]

*sigh* There was no reason to respond to what I said. That's just spamming on it's own.

 

[Kittyipawd]

Ok laquacity I will , but really the only theme teams anyone uses alot are trick room and Sandstorm than third I think would be Hail because it is easier to setup than rain dance because hial has abomasnow and kyorge is an uber banned from standard play ....

So if use rain dance then i would know 2 people who do

 

[flamehaze94]

Ha, saw this team on smogon. should be interesting.

Azelf @ Choice Scarf
ability: Levitate
nature: Mild (+SAtk, -Def)
evs: 36 attack / 220 Speed / 252 Spc. Attack
~ Fire Blast
~ Psychic
~ U-turn
~ HP [ice] / Grass Knot

when you see Azelf lead, what is your first impression?
any one should switch into Blissey/Cress correct? walled to no end
some Cress carry HP [Ground] and Blissey can use ST calculating LO recoil and 85% acc of Fire Blast and the 8PP, you got yourself a real problem there, so not even Heatran's going to fly

Heatran @ Life Orb
ability : Flash Fire
nature : Modest (+SAtk, -Atk)
evs : 42 HP / 216 Speed / 252 Spc. Attack
- Fire Blast
- Earth Power
- Taunt
- Hidden Power [Grass]

lol Slice, make sure to give Ekul credit for starting the Taunttran trend
those EVs are eww...

Jirachi @ Leftovers
Ability: Serene Grace
EVs: 252 HP/88 Spd/170 SAtk
Modest nature (+SAtk, -Atk)
- Thunderbolt
- Substitute
- Psychic
- Calm Mind

w/e

Swampert @ leftovers
ability : Torrent
nature : Relaxed (+Def, -Spd)
evs : 252 HP / 212 Defense / 46 Spec. Attack
~ Earthquake
~ Ice Beam
~ Roar
~ Stealth Rock

k

Garchomp @ Choice Scarf
ability : Sand Veil
nature : adamant (+Atk, -SAtk)
evs : 4 HP / 252 Atk / 252 Speed
~ Dragon Claw
~ Outrage
~ Fire Blast
~ Earthquake

yet, another set that gets walled to no end
Scarf sucks to no end

Celebi @ Leftovers
Ability: Natural Cure
EVs: 216 HP / 42 Atk / 252 Def
Bold nature (+Def, -Atk)
- Grass Knot
- Leech Seed
- Recover
- U-turn

the EVs are suckage
252HP / 216Def / 40SpDef are best.
Relaxed>Bold btw

No reliable sleep absorber means Gengar weak
Scheme Togekiss can cause you trouble too
has big trouble with offensive Tentacruel actually

And the format is really annoying, just in case you want to know

 

[BeachBoy]

Thank you all for the rates, maybe some like the format maybe some don't ok, but I like it *shrugs*. Ok Syaoran, I've learned from my experience psychics can be bad as leads too, thank you, but what do you think I should lead then? And to you all, yes this is an offensive theme, I know if i fumble prediction Ill...well....fail.

How in the world am I gengar weak? not one has even come close to a problem for this team, at all. I outspeed the leads if they stay in, Rachi, tears them a new one as well. Swampert usually takes the sleep all the time by the way, and Jirachi or azelf shred the thing to no return. Ok togekiss a problem? hmmmm ok, how to fix that? Also "scarf sucks"....thanks for telling me what shreds me guys, but what should I replace or move to fix or improve my standing on that if possible? Ill give your EV spread a go flame, thank you. Oh and I fixed the EV spread on azelf gofre, thanks for the point out. :D

Ok you guys disapprove azelf as lead, who should take the place?
Rain Dance teams by the way, have not been a problem as of yet, but maybe I just havn't come across the right one.

Thank you all very very much. Also it seems this thread has caused quite a lot of work/trouble for Loquacity, sorry about that as well.

 

[Anti]

TDB, just because sometyhing isn't popular doesn't mean you shouldn't point out a weak :/ Nobody uses Snorlax either, but the weak should be mentioned.

Also, I''ve never seen a Roserade lead O_O

Maybe just run standard SD Chomp rather than Scarfchomp. If fits in pretty well, and Azelf can revenge kill stuff for it.

Gengar will beat this team if Jirachi is gone, unless you sacrifice something and revenge kill it with Azelf. Jirachi can't really like Hypnosis either. I'd watch for that.