Red/Blue remakes on 3DS

[Wicked3DS]

FRLG had another player character option besides Red, last time I checked

What does that have to do with canon? The main story is still about Red. It's not like you see the one you don't choose in the game at all.

 

[TheRabbit]

What does that have to do with canon? The main story is still about Red. It's not like you see the one you don't choose in the game at all.

If you pick the girl, then the girl is the one who defeats Giovanni, leaves Pallet with Blue, becomes the champion, etc...

So even if Red is off doing his own thing while you're playing as the girl, he's not doing these things.


But it's kind of a moot point, because in HGSS, every reference to the FRLG hero uses words that don't have a gender. Like instead of "boy" it'll be "kid" and so forth.

 

[OmegaRuby and AlphaSapphire]

@ B.N.
Actually HgSs were remade like 5 years after FrLg. If it were 10...then we would've just gotten HgSs this year instead of OrAs xD. Remakes tend to be every 5 years thus far so perhaps DP will get theirs by 2019. Though if that happens they could still do YC either before (as the Kanto remakes are older than DP) or after (as Johto's remakes are younger than DP).

Actually now that I think about it...Kanto may not reappear for awhile. Kanto seems to be quite disliked by the fanbase or so the vocal people make it seem that way. GF said (in an interview after OrAs came out) that the reason they didn't put the BF after Gen IV as they felt people didn't like it (along with not having enough time). I know it sounds stupid but I fear Kanto may suffer from that. So if Kanto remakes are to happen the fanbase may need to rally the kind of momentum Johto and perhaps to even a greater extent the Hoenn remakes had. Sinnoh doesn't seem to get as much hate whenever future remakes are brought up though, but Kanto does (I read nearly whole forums of people say they would skip it and others who say they are tired of that boring place). However, I also have seen people who do want it, especially after OrAs came out so the momentum may start to build.

 

[BettyNewbie]

But it's kind of a moot point, because in HGSS, every reference to the FRLG hero uses words that don't have a gender. Like instead of "boy" it'll be "kid" and so forth.

And, yet, Red is the only one who appears at the end of Mt. Silver. Leaf isn't anywhere to be found.

Actually HgSs were remade like 5 years after FrLg. If it were 10...then we would've just gotten HgSs this year instead of OrAs xD. Remakes tend to be every 5 years thus far so perhaps DP will get theirs by 2019. Though if that happens they could still do YC either before (as the Kanto remakes are older than DP) or after (as Johto's remakes are younger than DP).

I was referring more to your plan for new remakes, which would put it closer to 10. But, even 5 years is 2-3 years too many, IMO.

Actually now that I think about it...Kanto may not reappear for awhile. Kanto seems to be quite disliked by the fanbase or so the vocal people make it seem that way. GF said (in an interview after OrAs came out) that the reason they didn't put the BF after Gen IV as they felt people didn't like it (along with not having enough time). I know it sounds stupid but I fear Kanto may suffer from that. So if Kanto remakes are to happen the fanbase may need to rally the kind of momentum Johto and perhaps to even a greater extent the Hoenn remakes had. Sinnoh doesn't seem to get as much hate whenever future remakes are brought up though, but Kanto does (I read nearly whole forums of people say they would skip it and others who say they are tired of that boring place). However, I also have seen people who do want it, especially after OrAs came out so the momentum may start to build.

I don't know if that's really true. The main reason why FRLG weren't as hyped as HGSS and ORAS was because they were released in the midst of the franchise's mid-late 2000s Dork Age. The older fans who would've welcomed new Gen 1 games were mostly gone from the fandom (repelled by both RS and the end of the Fad), and the younger ones didn't have the same attachment to Kanto, as they never played the original games. The fact that the GBA ended up being a much shorter-lived and lower selling handheld than either the GB/C or the DS didn't help matters (although, the 3DS doing even worse hasn't seemed to have hurt ORAS).

It didn't start becoming acceptable for teens and twentysomethings to start liking Pokémon until the very late 2000s (when people started rediscovering their old cartridges as part of a larger 90s nostalgia craze), which happened to be around the time HGSS were released. Nowadays, the people who are in that 17-20 age range are those who were 6-9 back in 2003, hence all of the hype for ORAS.

That being said, I'd be sad if Kanto truly was as unpopular as you say it is. I mean, none of the other regions would even exist without it. Just because Gen 1's story is kind of underdeveloped doesn't mean that it should be abandoned altogether. :(

 

[OmegaRuby and AlphaSapphire]

And, yet, Red is the only one who appears at the end of Mt. Silver. Leaf isn't anywhere to be found.



I was referring more to your plan for new remakes, which would put it closer to 10. But, even 5 years is 2-3 years too many, IMO.



I don't know if that's really true. The main reason why FRLG weren't as hyped as HGSS and ORAS was because they were released in the midst of the franchise's mid-late 2000s Dork Age. The older fans who would've welcomed new Gen 1 games were mostly gone from the fandom (repelled by both RS and the end of the Fad), and the younger ones didn't have the same attachment to Kanto, as they never played the original games. The fact that the GBA ended up being a much shorter-lived and lower selling handheld than either the GB/C or the DS didn't help matters (although, the 3DS doing even worse hasn't seemed to have hurt ORAS).

It didn't start becoming acceptable for teens and twentysomethings to start liking Pokémon until the very late 2000s (when people started rediscovering their old cartridges as part of a larger 90s nostalgia craze), which happened to be around the time HGSS were released. Nowadays, the people who are in that 17-20 age range are those who were 6-9 back in 2003, hence all of the hype for ORAS.

That being said, I'd be sad if Kanto truly was as unpopular as you say it is. I mean, none of the other regions would even exist without it. Just because Gen 1's story is kind of underdeveloped doesn't mean that it should be abandoned altogether. :(

Honestly if it weren't for Firered I probably wouldn't have gotten into Pokemon games (as it was the one that led me to buying Emerald), at least not during Gen III as Gen IV was dawning up us by then. So even though Kanto isn't my favorite I have some attachment to the region for that reason, and for establishing the series as a whole.
Also I hate to say it but most of the hate towards Kanto happened during Gen IV as people were tired of Kanto appearing yet again (with HgSs Kanto had appeared in every gen at the time). Though I got tired of Kanto being in every generation it is a very dumb reason to hate it now that I think about it rationally. GSC had Kanto in them so it'll only make sense for HgSs to have them. FrLg were remakes of RG so of course they'll have Hoenn. So there was no avoiding Kanto appearing every gen unless if they removed Kanto from HgSs at the time, but that would've made the games feel like they lost a lot.

Speaking of Kanto, thus far Kanto has appeared not just in every universe pre-Gen VI but also has appeared in every device I mentioned earlier except for the device hosting Gen VI of course. If GF plans to keep that up they'll going to have to have Kanto appear in the 3DS. The best thing to do I think is to skip having another round of Kanto remakes in Gen VI and have Gen VII also be in the 3DS (and maybe marketed for the New 3DS but be playable on the 3DS like how GS was for GBC but was playable for GB too) with enhancements for the New 3DS and have the Kanto remakes in that Gen. That way people would get two Gen's off of Kanto and be able to better appreciate it (Kanto as a region had EDPP in between its two most recent appearances but people still found it annoying in HgSs, hopefully two Gens and a pair (with maybe a third version added in) will do the trick).

 

[TheRabbit]

And, yet, Red is the only one who appears at the end of Mt. Silver. Leaf isn't anywhere to be found.

True, but the canon storyline has Red borrowing Blue and Leaf's Charizard and Blastoise and going to Mt Silver, so that's what the in-game event refers to. Leaf could still be kicking it elsewhere.

 

[BettyNewbie]

True, but the canon storyline has Red borrowing Blue and Leaf's Charizard and Blastoise and going to Mt Silver, so that's what the in-game event refers to. Leaf could still be kicking it elsewhere.

Um, nope. Adventures =/ game canon. You might as well be referring to Ash and Gary.

In the original timeline (read RBY and GSC), it's obvious that Red started with a Pikachu and got the other three starters from the Cerulean, Route 24, and Vermillion events (thus, making Yellow canon). It's HGSS that screwed things up by keeping the battle the same (save for swapping out Espeon for Lapras), even though they were supposed to be sequels to FRLG, not Yellow.

Honestly if it weren't for Firered I probably wouldn't have gotten into Pokemon games (as it was the one that led me to buying Emerald), at least not during Gen III as Gen IV was dawning up us by then. So even though Kanto isn't my favorite I have some attachment to the region for that reason, and for establishing the series as a whole.

Ah, so you're a newer fan. I started out with Yellow way back in 1999 (right at the peak of the Fad) and had pretty much lost interest by the time Ruby and Sapphire came out, so my perspective's a little bit different from yours. Did you ever go back and play the originals after playing the remakes, by any chance?

Also I hate to say it but most of the hate towards Kanto happened during Gen IV as people were tired of Kanto appearing yet again (with HgSs Kanto had appeared in every gen at the time). Though I got tired of Kanto being in every generation it is a very dumb reason to hate it now that I think about it rationally. GSC had Kanto in them so it'll only make sense for HgSs to have them. FrLg were remakes of RG so of course they'll have Hoenn. So there was no avoiding Kanto appearing every gen unless if they removed Kanto from HgSs at the time, but that would've made the games feel like they lost a lot.

I'm sure you meant to say "FrLg were remakes of RG so of course they'll have Kanto," right?

I definitely agree with you here. The only reason that Kanto appeared in Gens 3 and 4 was because of remakes, not because it was being shoehorned into newer games. If Kanto had been stuffed into DPP the same way Cynthia was stuffed into HGSS and BW, then sure, they'd have a reason to complain, but it wasn't.

Of course, I know that there are some people who wish that Kanto was never in GSC in the first place and that Johto was more isolated like Hoenn and Sinnoh (a view that I strongly disagree with).

Speaking of Kanto, thus far Kanto has appeared not just in every universe pre-Gen VI but also has appeared in every device I mentioned earlier except for the device hosting Gen VI of course. If GF plans to keep that up they'll going to have to have Kanto appear in the 3DS. The best thing to do I think is to skip having another round of Kanto remakes in Gen VI and have Gen VII also be in the 3DS (and maybe marketed for the New 3DS but be playable on the 3DS like how GS was for GBC but was playable for GB too) with enhancements for the New 3DS and have the Kanto remakes in that Gen. That way people would get two Gen's off of Kanto and be able to better appreciate it (Kanto as a region had EDPP in between its two most recent appearances but people still found it annoying in HgSs, hopefully two Gens and a pair (with maybe a third version added in) will do the trick).

This would probably be another reason to do Yellow and Crystal together. There, we can knock out both Kantos with one stone; people who are tired of the region will only have to see it for one more Generation, not two.

 

[OmegaRuby and AlphaSapphire]

That's true.

As for the originals, I had a friend who let me borrow his Silver (it was very fun and made me look forward to HgSs...which after Pt I thought would never happen (after B2W2 I started to feel the same way about Hoenn remakes)). Even with the latest remakes I still play Emerald sometimes (btw OrAs is as bad as you say FrLg, HgSs were in terms of how they treated Yellow and Crystal. For example Steven says to the player that they have to stop the 'TeamS' not the singular 'Team' even though only one is doing things while the other is aiding the player... also the Delta Episode made the games feel as if they were trying to be both R/S and Emerald remakes at the same time. I feel DP's will be the same way...). RBY were the only ones I didn't play...that I recall. I have a faint memory of playing something that resembled Kanto... before ever playing Firered (this would be in late 2002 to early 2003 during a trip to Mexico so before Hoenn came out in NA)I think it may have been the original Red. I didn't play it long enough to make any kind of review. Both that and FireRed I borrowed from cousins.

It would be better. Also people seem to be tired of the bird trio appearing every Gen (except V)...now jabbing it into Pt and XY was kind of out of nowhere (well not as bad as the dozen legends appearing in OrAs. Also people tend to overlook that the Regi,Lake, and the three Unova trios have appeared in every gen since their intro. Also the Beast, Weather, and Creation trio along with the Bird Duo (though in Gen III H and L were events) has appeared in every gen after their intro too minus V too, same goes for Mewtwo but no one seems to complain about Mewtwo...shows the favoritism). Thus if they make Kanto remakes I'll like to see GF give the bird trio Megas or maybe even Primals...I'm leaning towards Megas. I'll like for Articuno to get Snow Warning, Zapdos with Drizzle, and Moltres with Drought. Also maybe change their Flying typing to Dragon (they could do the same with their master Lugia's Mega) though perhaps that'll make them come off as Bird trio meets the Weather and Tao trios...
Also Mega Mew!
For non legends I want Mega Raichu and Mega Persian (btw they should give Meowth a baby in Gen VII to rival Pichu). Mega Raichu could be Electric/Fighting and get Motor Drive. Persian could be Dark with a Dark type version of Normalize (like Aerilate, Pixilate, Glaciate).

If they remake Crystal too then Mega Ho-oh and Mega Lugia with both getting their H.A. as their M.A.
Also Mega Celebi and Mega Beast trio along with the starters. I hope for Water/Dragon Feraligtr to make a starter Dragon trio with Mega Charizard X and Mega Sceptile. Maybe with Strong Jaws or a Dragon version of Normalize. Mega Typlosion should be Fire/Ground with a Ground version of normalize, while Mega Meganium can be Grass/Fairy with Pixilate. Or maybe all three could stay pure typed mons and get normalize versions of their respective types giving them major STAB moves to use.

 

[Wicked3DS]

In the original timeline (read RBY and GSC), it's obvious that Red started with a Pikachu and got the other three starters from the Cerulean, Route 24, and Vermillion events (thus, making Yellow canon). It's HGSS that screwed things up by keeping the battle the same (save for swapping out Espeon for Lapras), even though they were supposed to be sequels to FRLG, not Yellow.

But if HG/SS remakes are supposed to stay true to the orignals in some way, what exactly would you propose? Taking Red out of that spot would make HG/SS completely inaccurate remakes of G/S/C. And considering you couldn't get Espeon in Yellow, the fact that Red had one in G/S/C in the first place was completely wrong, so the whole thing is thrown off anyway.

 

[BettyNewbie]

But if HG/SS remakes are supposed to stay true to the orignals in some way, what exactly would you propose? Taking Red out of that spot would make HG/SS completely inaccurate remakes of G/S/C.

Well, they were already being pretty inaccurate by replacing Kris with Lyra and sticking a Safari Zone near Cianwood, so I don't see any problem with changing the Mt. Silver battle. HGSS were supposed to be just as much FRLG sequels as GSC remakes, anyways.

One thing they could've (and should've) done was take advantage of Dual Slot Mode and have whoever was at the end of Mt. Silver literally be your character and team from FRLG, name and everything. People who didn't have FRLG or were playing on a DSi/3DS would fight Red's (HeartGold) or Leaf's (SoulSilver) default team:

- Togekiss
- Espeon
- Snorlax
- Articuno
- Zapdos
- Moltres

Yes, they'd have Legendaries, but these birds have lower BSTs and worse movepools than all Pseudo-Legendaries (like Lance's Dragonites), and it's supposed to be a final battle, anyways. Togekiss, of course, explicitly points back to FRLG over RBY, as it's only in the remakes that Togepi is given as a gift (from a gentleman in the Water Labyrinth).

As for the originals, I had a friend who let me borrow his Silver (it was very fun and made me look forward to HgSs...which after Pt I thought would never happen (after B2W2 I started to feel the same way about Hoenn remakes)).

So, you did play Silver before HGSS. Do you think that had any effect on how you perceived HGSS (which were just as much Crystal remakes as GS ones)?

Even with the latest remakes I still play Emerald sometimes (btw OrAs is as bad as you say FrLg, HgSs were in terms of how they treated Yellow and Crystal. For example Steven says to the player that they have to stop the 'TeamS' not the singular 'Team' even though only one is doing things while the other is aiding the player... also the Delta Episode made the games feel as if they were trying to be both R/S and Emerald remakes at the same time. I feel DP's will be the same way...).

Yeah, I know. HGSS actually handled Crystal pretty well and did a good job of integrating its story and features into Gold and Silver's--Eusine, Buena's Password, Extremespeed Dratini, and so forth. It's FRLG and ORAS that messed up their Third Versions. FRLG ignored Yellow altogether, while ORAS awkwardly tried to make Emerald the postgame. GF could've done a much better job with both.

RBY were the only ones I didn't play...that I recall. I have a faint memory of playing something that resembled Kanto... before ever playing Firered (this would be in late 2002 to early 2003 during a trip to Mexico so before Hoenn came out in NA)I think it may have been the original Red. I didn't play it long enough to make any kind of review. Both that and FireRed I borrowed from cousins.

So, you never played the original Gen 1, then? (Or, at least, remember playing it.) It'd probably be hard to go back if you started with FireRed, but if you're interested in checking out the original games, I suggest giving Yellow a try. It's different enough from FRLG to not just feel like a limited, more outdated version (and it has *much* nicer sprites and graphics than RB).

It would be better. Also people seem to be tired of the bird trio appearing every Gen (except V)...now jabbing it into Pt and XY was kind of out of nowhere (well not as bad as the dozen legends appearing in OrAs. Also people tend to overlook that the Regi,Lake, and the three Unova trios have appeared in every gen since their intro. Also the Beast, Weather, and Creation trio along with the Bird Duo (though in Gen III H and L were events) has appeared in every gen after their intro too minus V too, same goes for Mewtwo but no one seems to complain about Mewtwo...shows the favoritism). Thus if they make Kanto remakes I'll like to see GF give the bird trio Megas or maybe even Primals...I'm leaning towards Megas. I'll like for Articuno to get Snow Warning, Zapdos with Drizzle, and Moltres with Drought. Also maybe change their Flying typing to Dragon (they could do the same with their master Lugia's Mega) though perhaps that'll make them come off as Bird trio meets the Weather and Tao trios...

I like the ideas for their abilities, but not the Dragon typing (save for Lugia). They don't really come off as even remotely draconic, IMO.

And, speaking of Lugia, I would actually like to see its link with the bird trio actually explored in the games. Storyline-wise, Lugia always seemed shafted compared to Ho-Oh (who got more backstory with the dog trio in Crystal).

For non legends I want Mega Raichu and Mega Persian (btw they should give Meowth a baby in Gen VII to rival Pichu). Mega Raichu could be Electric/Fighting and get Motor Drive. Persian could be Dark with a Dark type version of Normalize (like Aerilate, Pixilate, Glaciate).

Oh, I like both of those very much. Raichu and Persian could certainly use the boost (especially, poor Raichu, who's outclassed by its super popular pre-evolution in most things).

If they remake Crystal too then Mega Ho-oh and Mega Lugia with both getting their H.A. as their M.A.
Also Mega Celebi and Mega Beast trio along with the starters.I hope for Water/Dragon Feraligtr to make a starter Dragon trio with Mega Charizard X and Mega Sceptile. Maybe with Strong Jaws or a Dragon version of Normalize. Mega Typlosion should be Fire/Ground with a Ground version of normalize, while Mega Meganium can be Grass/Fairy with Pixilate.

I like those a lot, too. The Johto starters are considered to be some of the more underwhelming starters (all being pure type and with blah movepools), so they could definitely use a boost.

 

[Wicked3DS]

Umm, no. If I'm playing a remake of a game I enjoyed as a child, I would want to fight the original final battle, not some rehashed team based on this theory that it should've been a sequel. When exactly did Nintendo say it was a FR/LG sequel?

 

[TheRabbit]

But if HG/SS remakes are supposed to stay true to the orignals in some way, what exactly would you propose? Taking Red out of that spot would make HG/SS completely inaccurate remakes of G/S/C. And considering you couldn't get Espeon in Yellow, the fact that Red had one in G/S/C in the first place was completely wrong, so the whole thing is thrown off anyway.

Red has Espeon because, like I said, the Red battle in G/S/C was a reference to the adventures Red...who had Espeon.

 

[Wicked3DS]

Red has Espeon because, like I said, the Red battle in G/S/C was a reference to the adventures Red...who had Espeon.

You're definitely right about that, it's just the other theories that are presented here are trying to debunk that and I disagree with them. I'm pretty sure they were trying to refer to Pokémon Adventures.

 

[OmegaRuby and AlphaSapphire]

Umm, no. If I'm playing a remake of a game I enjoyed as a child, I would want to fight the original final battle, not some rehashed team based on this theory that it should've been a sequel. When exactly did Nintendo say it was a FR/LG sequel?

Yet Irc Red's team was changed anyways for HgSs compared to his GSC team.

 

[BettyNewbie]

Umm, no. If I'm playing a remake of a game I enjoyed as a child, I would want to fight the original final battle, not some rehashed team based on this theory that it should've been a sequel. When exactly did Nintendo say it was a FR/LG sequel?

If you want to play the exact same game you enjoyed as a child, then you should just go hunt down your old cartridges. A good remake is supposed to change things up and not just rehash the original games with prettier graphics. This is why HGSS and ORAS were much better remakes than FRLG; they weren't afraid to add new things and reinvent the old games.

And, HGSS were supposed to be FRLG sequels, because GSC were RBY sequels. Gen 2 was a direct follow-up to the events of Gen 1 in the same way that B2W2 was a direct follow-up to the events of BW. Not only did we revisit Kanto again and see how it changed after 3 years, but there were constant references to the events of "3 years ago" throughout the games. The Team Rocket plot is literally a direct continuation of Gen 1's Team Rocket plot and the aftermath of their disbanding. How did you not get this?

Red has Espeon because, like I said, the Red battle in G/S/C was a reference to the adventures Red...who had Espeon.

Adventures Red got an Espeon as a reference to GSC, not the other way around. That manga's even less relevant to the games than the anime with Ash; I don't think any game alluded to it until very recently with ORAS referencing Archie and Jirachi.

 

[OmegaRuby and AlphaSapphire]

Umm, no. If I'm playing a remake of a game I enjoyed as a child, I would want to fight the original final battle, not some rehashed team based on this theory that it should've been a sequel. When exactly did Nintendo say it was a FR/LG sequel?

Yet Irc Red's team was changed anyways for HgSs compared to his GSC team.
The sequel part came from GSC being referred to as sequels to RGBY so thus their remakes should keep that prequel-sequel nature in the remakes. Come to think about it with Gen V having B2W2 each gen has had a prequel-sequel game with Gen I and III having prequel (to the Johto ones), II and IV having sequel (the Johto games), and V having both.

 

[Neko Mizu]

I would really love that idea. That could also introduce a new Pokemon tradition of having 3 sets of games per generation. Sure, it would make the next generations appear later than with 2 sets of games, but it would be a lot of fun to do this. I also want to see my favourite gen get remade, second gen. <3

 

[OmegaRuby and AlphaSapphire]

I would really love that idea. That could also introduce a new Pokemon tradition of having 3 sets of games per generation. Sure, it would make the next generations appear later than with 2 sets of games, but it would be a lot of fun to do this. I also want to see my favourite gen get remade, second gen. <3

You mean re-remade xD. I wouldn't mind another Johto. I hope that this time they make night darker as one of the things I liked was the surprise of trainers popping out at night in Silver (since I went from Gen III to playing Silver it was something new to have night and day...I never did think why they took it out until later.)

 

[Neko Mizu]

You mean re-remade xD. I wouldn't mind another Johto. I hope that this time they make night darker as one of the things I liked was the surprise of trainers popping out at night in Silver (since I went from Gen III to playing Silver it was something new to have night and day...I never did think why they took it out until later.)

I was going to thank you for correcting me, but I had just realized what you did there. Anyways, I would not enjoy that all too much, making the night too dark (To the point I do not know where the trainers are at. Unless you are allowed to use Flash. If you are able to use Flash, and get it early, then everyone could be happy, I guess?

 

[OmegaRuby and AlphaSapphire]

Or maybe it could be very dark at midnight? Most players probably don't play at midnight so most probably won't be bothered by it. As for those who want it could change their 3DS clocks ^_^.