Irrelevant to discussion. And your starting to contradict yourself. First you claim how its "forbidden"that anyone in pokemon world travels without pokemon with everyone having one, just to afterwards change rhetoric when your confronted with evidence which rebuke your argument.
It only proves how kids who used fish on dry land were either bad trainers not taking in account how reckless and unwise is to use pokemon with such small maneuverability on dry surface like aquatic species are. Or had no choice being in bad situation either way,
Misty deciding not to use Goldeen or Horsea in Princess festival has nothing to do with her not knowing to use them in battle. But in deciding to use optimal and most successful pokemon team for that tournament due to actually being smart and experienced. Knowing who are most effective pokemon to use on land.
Maybe its not same in content, but on principle it is.
Because if your gonna use situation of Misty using Ash pokemon for Princess tournament as "proof of not having faith in her pokemon being weak", than going by your logic same can be said for Ash,. In not having faith in his own pokemon like Squirtle, Muk etc either in entering that competition, due to asking for Misty help.
Maybe, but in Whirl Cup it was said how sea heroes which in Japanese is name for water masters used to be called by that name judging by what prof. Elm and sea priestess Maya said. Serving as direct clear cut proof how by winning Alpha Omega of water pokemon title your gonna advance dream of becoming master of water pokemon coming closer to it.
Because its self explanatory. If there didn't exist any risk involved in leaving gym empty for long period of time lacking gym leader who would provide adequate challenge to challengers. Pewter and Cerulean gym wouldn't be in danger of being shut down in first place.
For how long gym can be left alone depends on whether substitute can be found, are there enough available alternate gyms near you for trainers to go to in order to acquire badge in case your gym is unavailable at moment. And whether it can be left unattented for extensive period of time(because as we got to see in chronicles certain gyms cannot be left without any substitute for long time without entering risk of getting shut down unlike its situation with Fantina).
What are you talking about lol?
It was clearly mentioned at very start of episode by PIA inspectors how any gym which is left alone and doesn't pass their standards will be closed down with those in charge of it losing license. PIA inspector Joy mentioned several times how if situation with Gyarados doesn't get resolved, gym wont be able to remain open followed by three pokemon brothers threatening Misty how she is not in position of properly running gym bringing it in danger of being closed down.
Whole reason why Misty even quit journey and her pursuing of goal in becoming water master was due to gym being in risk of closed down feeling its her obligation to prevent family tradition and their home from ending shut down. Due to careless act from her sisters.
Did you even watched "Cerulean Blue!" episode?
From very beginning of pokemon series Misty said how she wants to learn and and explore water pokemon as much as she can becoming strongest water trainer with them. She admired E4 members like Lorelei and their expertise or knowledge in using water specie in such creative and talented way wishing to become recognized and powerful like them one day herself.
Stating more than once how she intends to become water pokemon master.
So no, contrary to your belief Misty main goal was to become water master.
Except Fearow taking Togepi happened in split of a second with Misty not having time to react. Not to mention Staryu and Starmie cannot fly, only hover in air being slower than Fearow who is much faster in air and can ascend to higher altitudes. So your example isn't very good.
As much as i liked May, im sorry to say but she never really stood out in courage and devotedness in protecting others like Misty did.
Who risked her life on more than one occasion when saving other humans like Ash or Rudy sister. Jumped of the cliff with Marill in river and saved it from falling tree. Pushed Psyduck on side with TR mecha whirlpool sucking her instead. Took three poison stings from Tentacruel and heavy beating almost drowning to protect Gyarados etc, etc. All of this situations were life threatening.
Exaggerated?
Whirl Cup was anything but provincial like insignificant tournament as your trying to make it be.
For start all kind of trainers from all kind of regions come and participate in this competition. To measure up strength, intelligence and compatibility with your pokemon.
It has lore based around itself about ancient times, water masters who learned how to use water specie to full potential in past, mystical items such as water pendant, sea sapphire etc being able to gather energy of all water pokemon at one place.
Winner gets prestige title Alpha Omega of water pokemon serving as spring board in bringing you closer toward type master title and item which can increase power of water pokemon by multiple times.
Only best 64 can enter 6 rounds of battling with weak competition being eliminated through preliminaries with Misty coming top 8 or top 4 based on what kind of ranking system was applied there).
And is held only once every 3 years having according to story long and well known tradition behind itself as evidenced through prof. Elm and sea priest Maya talks.
So if anything Whirl Cup was highly prestigious and known worldwide that in some aspects it held bigger value than even Grand Festivals themselves.
Being presented basically like water pokemon league.
So theory of this being "low class event" goes down the drain with writers making big deal out of it for a reason.
Since it serves as challenge through which significant step forward toward becoming water pokemon master can be made .
So basically only area where May got more focus tjhan Ash was amount of attention her rivals got. But theres nothing to compete with since Ash didn't had rivals to begin with there.
Still if we calculate how much focus May and Ash received on average, im sorry to say but in Hoenn May total number of episodes and spotlight isn't even close to what Ash received.
For start number of episodes focused on gym leaders and Ash interactions with them as he prepared and battled for badge advancing his quest is double the amount of episodes focusing on May contests. In comparison Grand Festival in Hoenn had 3 episodes dedicated to it, while Ever Grande conference had 6 episodes in total.
During Team Magma and Aqua confrontations Ash always took the lead playing central role in such episodes. Than there are fillers where Ash was the star saving day on regular basis much more often than May, Max or Brock did. Episodes dedicated to training his pokemon and moments of bonding with them such as in helping Treecko in lerarning moves like bullet seed, taking care of sick Corphish, working on Torkoal selfesteem issues etc. is still in larger amount than what May pokemon received.
So from where you got idea that May "completely overshadowed Ash in Hoenn getting more spotlight" is beyond me. Because it simply isn't true.
It wasn't. If you check ratings on official pokeani site you would notice how in Johto ratings on average were above 10, often even above 12 coming to 14 % of total viewing demographic. In Hoenn on average ratings went from 8 to 9% of total average of how were episodes received. Never reaching that high ratings like Pokemon was still capable of doing in Joto coming close to ratings coefficient Kanto and Orange Islands were known foring.
Interestingly enough last episodes in Johto which went beyond 12% were Misty focused episodes when she battled in Whirl Cup.
Here is link:
https://pokeani.s47.xrea.com/s-title/subtitle-ag-hoenn.html
https://pokeani.s47.xrea.com/s-title/subtitle-johto.html
Except Iris used to criticize Ash when he didn't do mistakes either not delivering same passion to her emotions and smart humor like Misty did. Not to mention Misty critique was more in place. Due to Ash actually being rookie and ten times more arrogant, cocky, selfish and inconsiderate compared to his BW days. Which reset his knowledge, experience and maturity over night. Hence being one of main triggers behind massive fans disappointments.
Your comparing underaged overly enthusiastic child with grown up people who as result of maturing and being exposed to all kind if trouble learned how to survive and take care of themselves in avoiding better life threatening situations than Bonnie does. Whose curiosity and hyperactive nature quite a few times brought her in position to be shocked or hit by other pokemon.
It wouldn't be first time we saw Ash or other trainers forget their pokeballs and pokemon either, yet they managed to take care of themselves just fine. Making your argument invalidated.
You do realize Ash was more cocky, braggart, stubborn and disrespectful in Kanto than he was in Johto? Where he showed some actual humility, willingness to accept his flaws listening to other people advice and more down to earth. Thanks to Misty support, guidance and constructive critique.
So his decision to borrow Misty pokemon in Johto could be also sign of his growing and realizing how not everything he can do alone sometime needing other people help.
Thats your misinterpretation of things, because God has never been mentioned in there. On other hand it was clearly stated how Alpha Omega of water pokemon was name by which sea heroes used to be called in past learning in developing mastery of using this element. Turning out how sea heroes is Japanese name and convoluted form of "water pokemon master". So please get your facts straight before deciding to further argue about this.
Those "trips" your referring to were during short period of time, hence why substitute wasn't required. But as we get to see with gym leaders who go on journey in order to catch new pokemon, develop new skills, compete in tournaments and pursue other dreams they may have, substitute was always provided. Like in Brock, Clemont, Cilan, Misty(when sisters still took their responsibilities as gym leaders) etc case.
Ash challenged Roxie for simple fact of her character coming from BW2 games introducing several new gym leaders who took over positions older ones had. Such as Cheren taking over Lenora place or Marlon instead of Drayden being 8th gym leader there.
Hence why they had Ash battle Roxie instead of Drayden for promotional purposes in order to introduce her character.
Your often forgetting how pokemon anime, especially in today age is mainly promotional tool for games.
Except most gym leader who had obligations, dreams and occupations which involve long travels taking substantial amount of time are making sure to find substitute who would cover up for them during time they're absent and unable to do their chores.
For simple fact of gym leader job being highly demanding, stressful and time consuming not leaving you with much time for anything else. For same reason Clemont was forced to build Clembot to replace him as gym leader in order to have time in experimenting with his inventions and passion he has for science.
For same reason it was said how Lenora had to abandon her position of gym leader because work at Nacrene city museum got in the way not having enough time to dedicate toward occupation she performs. Etc, etc.
So no, gym leaders cannot leave gyms whenever they want and for unlimited amount of time. Being forced in such cases to provide proper substitute who would continue to maintain gym of specific city supervised by pokemon league committee and perform duty of testing upcoming trainers and being one of stations where they can collect badges qualifying for pokemon league.
Doing it otherwise only brings gym in danger of being shut down by PIA agency in case they discover irregularities in specific city which has gym.
Hence why both Cerulean and Pewter gym were in danger of being closed down with their leaders losing license.
From wherever you got this impression, its clearly wrong. In history of pokemon series none of gym leaders were ever capable of standing up to legendary pokemon. Tobias from Lily of Valley conference defeated all 8 Sinnoh gym leaders with ease never using anything else beside Darkrai. Being unstoppable until he faced Ash who while losing , still managed to take down 2 of his pokemon.
Those guys you mentioned were inspectors just like nurse Joy was. Them not appearing in person, but on TV simply means they were performing their duty in other town at that time with news making sure to inform viewers and citizens of what would happen to gyms which have bad standards or are left alone without anyone to take care of it.
I thought that much was obvious not needing any further explanation since its common sense. But i guess i was wrong.
Needless to say as i mentioned in post above, considering how nurse Joy also mentioned how there exists danger of having to shut down gym due to Gyarados problem and all other irregularities. With brothers trying to make sure that Misty fails inspector test.
Which in case of succeeding would cause gym to be shut down. So no, Misty wasn't exaggerating.
Your just trying to fabricate facts in order to be in better position during debate. But thats not way to do it only undermining your skills and value as debater in that case.
Committing logical fallacies such as Strawman argument or False attribution.
Yet at same time inspector Joy stated multiple times how in case she gives bad review, gym wont remain open. Mentioning herself how she will shut down Pewter gym, especially after realizing how Brock wasnn't anymore performing his duties with his family failing to deliver notice to league agency of Pewter changing its gym leader with Forest not being official leader at that time. So im not sure what your even talking about.
Except Misty took her passion for specific type to a whole new level in wanting to become water master with them. In seeking for legendary and mysterious pokemon of such specie striving to discover their true nature and realize how to bring their best on surface.
She openly challenged and confronted anyone who wanted to harm water creatures and polute rivers, Oceans and seas. Like it was case with Nastina in Porta Vista, pirates during Orange islands or various trainers like Egan who was hotheaded fire trainer. Not allowing that water pokemon gets insulted, sharing with viewers why she loves water and water pokemon so much and committing herself in sending message how important this specie is for planet and humans.
So no, Misty passion exceeds Bugsy and Gardenia love for their specific type by FAR. Considering Misty passion for pokemon has deeper meaning to it than just fangirling and acting silly whenever there is new water pokemon.
She put Gyarados in cage at advice of inspector Joy in having to take drastic measures. Something Misty was reluctant about and felt guilt with Joy reassuring her how she did right thing given how Gyarados behavior jeopardized human and pokemon lives in there.
Likewise at that time neither Misty or Joy knew how brothers wold force Misty in match spreading it all over the town how battle for gym leader of Cerulean city will begin. Putting Misty in unfavorable position when she was in middle of crisis.
Your forgetting how Cerulean gym pool isn't just battlefield, but also stage for various performance her sisters exhibit in there. So you cannot pin this on Misty as any flaw or mistake from her side, given how pool wasn't supposed to be battlefield as long Gyarados is in there.
It was implied and even stated how pokemon do eat other pokemon, so there should be no surprise in there. Only reason why this is rarely brought up or heavily censored is for simple fact of this being kids show So lets not act like its only May pokemon who were in danger.
Also if you bothered to read my posts you would notice how Misty showed far more courage and devotion in protecting other pokemon and humans than May in reality ever did.
Let see: In "Around the Whirlpool" episode Misty dreams of becoming water master, than conveniently prof. Elm informs them how there exists Whirl Cup explaining how winner becomes "Alpha omega"(beginning and end to water pokemon). Something Misty eagerly accepts subscribing still fantasizing about becoming master of water pokemon.
Just to hear more about this in "Dueling Heroes"when sea priest Maya talks about water pokemon expert, "sea heroes" (Japanese water masters)which knew ins and outs of water types with title winner obtains in Whirl Cup being convoluted form of water pokemon master , one of steps they in past obtained before fulfilling this dream.
Whirl Cup was directly connected with Misty water master career since it dug deeper into that mentioning whole water master thing and expertise about water types previous water experts used to have.
While admittedly whole procedure was vague , it had huge connection with Misty dream of becoming water master.
No they dont, because:
A) it was proved with Whirl Cup and lore specific for Whirl islands how entering and winning prestigue water themed tournaments where you can demonstrate your expertise and prove worth to other trainers worldwide is necessary in order to become water master, With Whirl Cup introducing one of tasks you need to acquire and overcome to come closer toward fulfillment of that dream by winning title "Alpha Omega of water pokemon!".
In Iris case there are no dragon themed events she needs to enter and win to become dragon master.
B)
Contemporary going through Misty dialogue whenever she mentioned water master thing she also mentioned desire to become strongest water trainer in world revealing how strong she needs to become to be considered as master. So far currently strongest trainers which specialize in one type are E4 members drawing parallels with her idol she admires Lorelei. With Misty directly stating how she wants to become strong like her, E4 members are. With every E4 member being directly referred in games as master of type he/she specialize in.
Because unlike its case with gym leaders who use water pokemon, E4 members who use water like Siebold are called water pokemon masters. Showing how powerful you need to become in order to earn such title.
You do realize their voice actors in TR radio show acted like they were Ash and Misty from pokemon anime? With Misty Japanese VA Mayumi IIzuka saying how she wishes to see Ash again.
There exists difference between being dumb or eccentric.
As i explained earlier, why would Misty use fish pokemon on dry land to begin with? When its far from optimal choice. Its not about Misty not knowing to commmand attacks for her pokemon, its about being enough intelligent and perceptive in knowing how disadvantageous and silly it would been from her side to use Goldeen in Princess tournament when there was no water at all.
Again in that same episode inspector Joy warned Misty how Cerulean gym cannot remain open in case things don't get back to normal.
Misty herself felt obligation to go back to gym in order to prevent it from being closed down, despite not wanting to stop traveling in her departure episode, due . In case she didn't returned and sisters
Most of all just because we didn't saw those two outside of TV does not invalidate what they said at all. With PIA agency doing hunt on gyms which are left empty without substitute with Cerulean gym being in danger of losing its license.
If you rewatch episode you would notice how inspector Joy stated how she will make sure to close down Pewter gym based on mess she encountered there. With Brock having to beg her not to do this and give him second chance by battling his brother Forest,.
Do you even remember Kanto and Orange islands? Because ever since Misty joined Ash and Brock on travels she stated several times how she wants to become strongest water trainer in world.How she wants to reach E4 level being recognized and acknowledged for her skills and knowledge in utilizing water pokemon and catching and learning as much as she can abut type she loves so much.
Turning out how goal she pursued was to become water pokemon master. Being first time brought up in either end of Kanto or Orange Islands in original Japanese version. Ill dug out episode name when i find time.
Because unlike May, snapping of Togepi happened in split of second not leaving Misty time to react right away. Along with not having pokemon most efficient for such task in both catching up to Fearow speed in air or managing to reach same altitude within equal amount of time like bird pokemon was able to do. Being better equipped and adjusted to air currents and flying than starfish pokemon in reality are.
Likewise attacking Fearow while it had such fragile pokemon like Togepi in mouth would jeopardize greatly its life and health.
Only because it landed on wooden beam on top of building which amortized its fall not falling from especially big altitude.
If it fall all the way to ground hitting solid surface it would be either greatly injured or even worse.
Your overestimating endurance of fragile and sensitive baby pokemon like Togepi was. Not being designed for battling and rough action, hence why it evolves through happiness and trainer affection.
I assume you meant Sinnoh, because he never said such thing in Johto. Term champion league wasn't even mentioned at that time.
And by not paying attention to what others say, how can you understand why others disagree with you or realize what are holes and flaws behind your arguments than?
It wasn't Misty theme persay, but there exists pokemon ending theme called "Laplace ni Notte" or translated "Riding on Lapras!"s sang by only Misty(her voice actor Mayumi IIzuka)during Orange islands saga.
If in recall right whole debate started when you started mentioning May and how she is "best girl to be with Ash". How "she should return to main cast and travel with Ash again being apparently "better than any other poke girl".
There exists old saying:The wise say as much as they should, not as much as they can.
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