Should 'creationism' be taught in school?

[Bianca Paragon]

Evolution of humans from monkeys/apes/whatever has not been proven, just as creationism hasn't been proven either.

Perhaps other animals have evolved from other base life forms, but as it stands now, it is not fact that we came from monkeys/apes.

Many times evolutionists have tried to present data on evolution from monkeys and every time, it's been disproven.

So neither should be taught in school (in regards to Monkey->Human), since neither has been proven fact.

I took World History to the 20th Century about a month ago; evolution has not been proven.

It's a Scientific Theory. Do you know what some other Scientific Theories are? How about Gravity? Are you going to try and argue against that, too?

 

[Yusshin]

A theory is an idea, not a fact.

https://dictionary.reference.com/browse/theory

guess or conjecture

contemplation or speculation

a proposed explanation whose status is still conjectural, in contrast to well-established propositions that are regarded as reporting matters of actual fact.

An assumption based on limited information or knowledge; a conjecture.

In other words, it's not proven, but it is an idea that they're considering, but there aren't enough facts to call it "fact". Thus why there's the word theory that exists, and the word fact. Two different things.

 

[Esper]

Same website, looking up "scientific theory"
https://dictionary.reference.com/browse/scientific+theory

systematic ideational structure of broad scope, conceived by the human imagination, that encompasses a family of empirical (experiential) laws regarding regularities existing in objects and events, both observed and posited. A scientific theory is a structure suggested by these laws and is devised to explain them in a scientifically rational manner.

Or, in other words, there are multiple meanings to the word "theory" and to argue that evolution is wrong because it is called a theory is silly and to call it wrong because it can't be labeled a "fact" is to ignore the mounds of observable evidence supporting it.

Yes, evolution is not a fact, but a "best guess". That's because it's the strongest guess with the most supporting it. Very little can be proven concretely if it can't be replicated in a lab - some things never can and never will be proven 100% - but that doesn't mean we can't look at the larger lab that we call the real world and use the natural experiments there to form and reform theories so that we can say "all available evidence points to evolution as the most likely process by which human beings came into existence."

 

[Ineffable~]

Evolution is a natural idea. Natural selection is obvious. o_o;

Spoiler:

Three male butterflies are living in an environment with birch trees (which have white bark, of course). One is light, and the others are dark. The light butterfly survives because it has better camouflage when it's hanging around a birch tree. The dark ones are not so lucky, and both get eaten. 3: Because their camouflage sucks. So the light one lives long enough to mate with a female and pass on his genes to his offspring, which will be light like he is. Eventually the population will approach this desirable light colour (without any one individual changing) since the light butterflies are surviving more consistently and passing on their genes (rightly so--it's difficult for a bird to spot a light butterfly against a light background like a birch tree...poor bird).
And that's evolution. Nothing baseless or unnatural.

*Totally did not steal that example from her biology class speaking of moths in the UK*

Um, what?
No school says "OMG YOU LOSER, YOU BELIEVE IN GOD, STOP BELIEVING." Pokejungle already explained it. Anyways, they only teach what they are teaching right now because there is evidence behind it. It isn't atheistic to believe in evolution or germ theory. When evidence comes forward and any theory is disproven, they change the curriculum.

True, even in our largely atheist society (cbf actually researching, but I think 16% of America is irreligious), "theistic" is considered the "moral norm" to some extent (I at least find implications that Christians can be better than atheists but not the other way around, i.e there's some implication, if perhaps not definite, of inferiority). Put simply, generally people would rather one believe than not believe. Just an example, my mother says I have bad moral character and believes church can correct it. unu;

And evolution and creationism do not contradict each other completely. You could assume some God created the world as a big puddle of mud and monera and said "lolhereyougo" and let them evolve into plants and animals and worms and stuff eventually into chordates.
...Just so some staunch creationist theists understand. d(''d)

Absolutely not! Two reasons.

1. Breaks separation between church and state.
2. Can be offensive.

...I suppose I simply fail to see how one is offended by that. 3:
I'm not offended when people talk about ideas that contradict pantheism. ~(bn_n)b

And as others have said, the course could simply be teaching about religion (for those who may pursue the knowledge, idk, maybe to be a major in theology), rather than teaching students to believe in said religion.

'w'

 

[pokejungle]

...evolution is fact. It doesn't matter if it creates "angry individuals"; they'll have to let go of their fairy-tales sooner or later.

Thanks <3

Evolution doesn't explain how we came to be hunny buns o3o There are parts of (big 'E') Evolution that hypothesize that we are a descendant or a fork from chimpanzees.

But have you SEEN early humanoid remains? I mean it wouldn't even take a scientist to say "wow, yeah, I see both primate and humanoid qualities there".

Duuuuuuh. You uber-religites betta make your stories fit science or you're plum outta luck here.

 

[Bianca Paragon]

A theory is an idea, not a fact.

https://dictionary.reference.com/browse/theory









In other words, it's not proven, but it is an idea that they're considering, but there aren't enough facts to call it "fact". Thus why there's the word theory that exists, and the word fact. Two different things.

Nice strawman. Now do what Scarf said and look up Scientific Theory.

 

[.Fenris]

Wow...

Some numbers recur infinitely. Just because we can't calculate the end of the number doesn't mean the number doesn't exist. Stop being a ****.

Let me get this straight, you're the one who is on a "ZOMG RUHLIGEON!" rampage, and I'm acting like an ass?
Same argument can be applied to God (or deity of your choice) existing, but we just haven't found our way to them yet.
Now, since this topic seems to be where everyone expresses their beliefs (and asininity, I might add), I believe that there is fact in Creationism and Evolution, as in that there must of been some of catalyst with the big bang and creation of the original one, else how did the gases and dust EXIST without something to create it.

 

[Bianca Paragon]

Nope ~ that's where you're wrong. See, Science can say "I don't know, but I'd like to find out" when a problem arises that there's no answer to. Religion says "I don't know, so it must be God"

 

[Mana1]

Evolution of humans from monkeys/apes/whatever has not been proven, just as creationism hasn't been proven either.

Perhaps other animals have evolved from other base life forms, but as it stands now, it is not fact that we came from monkeys/apes.

Many times evolutionists have tried to present data on evolution from monkeys and every time, it's been disproven.

So neither should be taught in school (in regards to Monkey->Human), since neither has been proven fact.

I took World History to the 20th Century about a month ago; evolution has not been proven.

O______O

Humans didn't evolve from monkeys, no-one who actually knows or has studied evolution will ever say that we did.

Humans and Apes have a common ancestor, but we have evolved separately in different habitats and niches over millions of years to cause large phenotype differences thanks to variation and natural selection.

Actually, the line of Human evolution can be tracked quite successfully by fossil records.

As can horse evolution from a small deer-like animal.

As can the evolution of a fish to an amphibious animal with legs strong enough to walk on land.

As can the evolution of birds from the Velociraptor Genus.

So yeah, sorry to burst your bubble but Evolution is fact, it is supported by thousands and thousands of pieces of fossil evidence.

People always say you can't -see- evolution, but sure you can, just look at your pet dog. Features are bred in to dogs (and pastoral animals) for hundreds of years to emphasise features that we want them to have, as the animals become more and more genetically different (different breeds can vary a lot!) it gets more and more likely that they will become sexually isolated from the other breeds and ta-da! Speciation has occured, in the same principles of Evolution but under human control (and taking much less time).

Should Creationism be taught in schools? Sure, but it should be taught in RE/RS/Relgion Class/Whatever and be given to the children as a story not a fact. Evolution should be taught, it is scientific fact, without it there isn't much point in having biology in school at all really.

 

[Guillermo]

I as a whole don't believe religion should be taught in school. They're trying to force a religion onto you, even if it doesn't seem like that. There are Churches out there, and if you want to believe in God and Jesus then go to one of them. I don't believe schools need to tell you everything a Church does.

Whilst evolution may not be a fact to some people, it's the best damn guess we have as to what happened, and what else are we going to turn to? Whatever a Scientist tells us, we'll more than likely believe. If the whole theory of evolving from monkeys/apes was wiped out, what else would we believe? We've got to have something to lean on, and if that's the closest estimate we have, then that's what we're going to use.

Should Creationism be taught in schools? Sure, but it should be taught in RE/RS/Relgion Class/Whatever and be given to the children as a story not a fact. Evolution, should be taught, it is scientific fact, without it there isn't much point in having biology in school at all really.

It doesn't matter what the hell a school teaches it as. Story, fact, fairytale, whatever. The fact is that the same thing is being said regardless in what context. Kids are gonna believe what their teacher says. For example, most schools have always taught that Captain Cook was the first person to Australia, but that's not true at all.

 

[Mana1]

It doesn't matter what the hell a school teaches it as. Story, fact, fairytale, whatever. The fact is that the same thing is being said regardless in what context. Kids are gonna believe what their teacher says. For example, most schools have always taught that Captain Cook was the first person to Australia, but that's not true at all.

I mostly meant in the context of Secondary Schools or High Schools where the children are older and less susceptible to the teacher's influence.

 

[.Fenris]

Nope ~ that's where you're wrong. See, Science can say "I don't know, but I'd like to find out" when a problem arises that there's no answer to. Religion says "I don't know, so it must be God"

The **** are you on about? I was not arguing religion, I was arguing the existence of God.

 

[parallelzero]

EDIT: Mizan, my threads never create flame wars. Ever.

*smack*

Okay, I'm stopping this now before it really gets out of hand. You've already gone off topic (the question was should creationism be taught, not the validity of religion overall), and this is just going in a bad direction. While the thread topic may be laced throughout the discussion, I'm not about to accept that as justification to leave the thread open when it's going down the wrong path anyways.