Should One Of Our Heroes (before Iris and Dent) Have Won A Tournament By Now?

[matt0044]

Before you give me your typical responses of a resounding "NO," please hear me out first. Okay? Good.

With the exceptions of the Orange League and the Battle Frontier, Ash, May and Dawn have not once won a regional tournament (on screen). It's always the same damned formula: Ash can't win a tournament because he has to keep traveling until the final Pokemon games and May and Dawn couldn't win because Ash hasn't won yet.

But do you think that after 13/14 years of the Anime, Ash, May, Dawn or at least one of our heroes should have won a regional tournament be it league or festival? Do you think that the writers should have given them the proper character development that would've lead to their ultimate victory rather than relying on COTDs and the TRio for episode plots?

Me? I think so. We've seen our so-called "heroes" lose again and again that I think that they deserve to taste victory. Now before you say that they'd get full of hot air from their victory, the writers would probably have them lose battles so they can know that they have to constantly train their Pokemon so long as there's someone better to surpass. Ash is an adventurous boy striving to be the best trainer in the world. If he won the Indigo League, then he would've wanted to go to other parts of the world as he got stronger. If at first he didn't know, Professor Oak would've given him some words of wisdom on how he should know that there are better trainers in the world and that he has to hone his skills and the GS Ball to deliver to the Orange Islands and Johto.

Before writing your reply, please be sure to reread this post so that you don't make a mistake in agree or disagreeing with me.

Thank you and I hope you think this through.

 

[Vernikova]

Yes they should have. I we're not going to be seeing on the main cast then at least send them off with an actual tournament victory and not some half-assed defeat by a Mary Sue or Soledad.

 

[Spinor]

I do agree its quite frustrating that not much development has happened. I would like if either Ash won something or he just accepts his position as a Pokemon Trainer.

What I'm just hoping for this generation is for him to just win this league and retire or something. It's already in my serious thoughts and wishes to get another trainer.

 

[MrsNorrington]

Dawn shouldve won the Grand Festival. That was my biggest disappointment in the history of Pokemon.

 

[Kirbychu]

Considering that both May and Dawn were still both fairly new trainers when they entered their first Grand Festivals, I don't think it would have made to much sense for them to win a tournament so soon. It's only reasonable that there are many older and more experienced trainers than "our heroes" out there. May seemed to have quite a bit of experience by the time she got to her second Grand Festival, but that was still just her second. I don't think it would make too much sense for one of the newer trainers to win such a prestigious tournament without a lot of prior experience. Ash actually does have experience like that, which is why it took a random guy with Ubers to defeat him. Ash has trained for a very long time to achieve his goal. May and Dawn were still fairly new at what they were doing. It's pretty ridiculous to think that these children can even advance so far in tournament like that at all. Oh wait, they've got heart.

 

[matt0044]

Considering that both May and Dawn were still both fairly new trainers when they entered their first Grand Festivals, I don't think it would have made to much sense for them to win a tournament so soon. It's only reasonable that there are many older and more experienced trainers than "our heroes" out there. May seemed to have quite a bit of experience by the time she got to her second Grand Festival, but that was still just her second. I don't think it would make too much sense for one of the newer trainers to win such a prestigious tournament without a lot of prior experience. Ash actually does have experience like that, which is why it took a random guy with Ubers to defeat him. Ash has trained for a very long time to achieve his goal. May and Dawn were still fairly new at what they were doing. It's pretty ridiculous to think that these children can even advance so far in tournament like that at all. Oh wait, they've got heart.

I never got this whole "can't win the first time around" excuse. It's possible in the games to win the league so why not in the Anime.

Sure, it's much more possible for the characters to lose in Anime due to there being no second chances but with the correct writing and character development, the writers can make it seem possible that they can win on their first go. Ergo: Dawn.

And I'm not sure if you know this but Zoey won her first GF on screen in DP177. If she can do it, then why couldn't the writers make it so Dawn could win?

P.S. How come Ash, May and Dawn show that they have not studied up on being a trainer before their journey? Wouldn't that be the logical choice rather them go out into the world with no prior knowledge on Pokemon or training whatsoever?

 

[Charaxes]

Considering that both May and Dawn were still both fairly new trainers when they entered their first Grand Festivals, I don't think it would have made to much sense for them to win a tournament so soon. It's only reasonable that there are many older and more experienced trainers than "our heroes" out there. May seemed to have quite a bit of experience by the time she got to her second Grand Festival, but that was still just her second. I don't think it would make too much sense for one of the newer trainers to win such a prestigious tournament without a lot of prior experience. Ash actually does have experience like that, which is why it took a random guy with Ubers to defeat him. Ash has trained for a very long time to achieve his goal. May and Dawn were still fairly new at what they were doing. It's pretty ridiculous to think that these children can even advance so far in tournament like that at all. Oh wait, they've got heart.

I agree with the Mod, as you can justify May or Dawn losing, as they were new to the game. Whereas, it does become a tad frustrating for Ash not to win one, as the Mod said, he has been training for how many episodes and years, now? Need something more than the OI trophy, something with game canon, preferably.

 

[Vernikova]

Battle Frontier says hi. And it hasn't even been a year yet so he hasn't been training for years and years so you could say that Ash is relatively new to the game as well.

It's not that I don't get that they can't always win, it's that I just want to see them win for my entertainment. Nothing more.

 

[Charaxes]

Battle Frontier says hi. And it hasn't even been a year yet so he hasn't been training for years and years so you could say that Ash is relatively new to the game as well.

It's not that I don't get that they can't always win, it's that I just want to see them win for my entertainment. Nothing more.

I knew I was forgetting something. My apologies. I just want them to win for ratio purposes, because not everyone should lose constantly. Not counting the Rockets until B/W, of course.

 

[Kirbychu]

I never got this whole "can't win the first time around" excuse. It's possible in the games to win the league so why not in the Anime.

Spoiler:

The anime tends to be a bit more plausible than the games. In the games, you're a young prodigy who's better than every other trainer out there (Excluding Battle Frontier trainers and other players). Starters appear in the wild, there are more towns and gyms per region, and legendaries appear to be a bit more common. It really doesn't make any sense for a new 10 year-old trainer from some backwater town to win a Pokemon league on his first try.

Sure, it's much more possible for the characters to lose in Anime due to there being no second chances but with the correct writing and character development, the writers can make it seem possible that they can win on their first go. Ergo: Dawn.

It would be understandable if said trainer had a lot of prior experience, or if it was heavily implied that they were an absolute prodigy. I can see one of Ash's companion's winning a tournament, but it's perfectly understandable that none have done so.

And I'm not sure if you know this but Zoey won her first GF on screen in DP177. If she can do it, then why couldn't the writers make it so Dawn could win?

It seemed as if Zoey knew more about Pokemon and contest then Dawn, but I still don't think it makes too much sense. You'd think there'd be better coordinators out there.

P.S. How come Ash, May and Dawn show that they have not studied up on being a trainer before their journey? Wouldn't that be the logical choice rather them go out into the world with no prior knowledge on Pokemon or training whatsoever?

This is most likely a technique used to introduce new kid's to the world of Pokemon as well.

 

[matt0044]

The anime tends to be a bit more plausible than the games. In the games, you're a young prodigy who's better than every other trainer out there (Excluding Battle Frontier trainers and other players). Starters appear in the wild, there are more towns and gyms per region, and legendaries appear to be a bit more common. It really doesn't make any sense for a new 10 year-old trainer from some backwater town to win a Pokemon league on his first try.

Like I asked before, what if they studied up on the basics of being a trainer or coordinator? What if our "heroes" were prodigies that know the basics of being a trainer like catching a Pokemon and battling with their own?

Also just because certain game mechanics don't apply to the Anime, doesn't mean the story and characters from the games don't have to apply to the Anime.

It would be understandable if said trainer had a lot of prior experience, or if it was heavily implied that they were an absolute prodigy. I can see one of Ash's companion's winning a tournament, but it's perfectly understandable that none have done so.

Not experience, studying as in reading books written by former trainers or professors like Oak or going to Pokemon Trainer School.

As Shooti always says: "That's basic, right?"

It seemed as if Zoey knew more about Pokemon and contest then Dawn, but I still don't think it makes too much sense. You'd think there'd be better coordinators out there.

It's obvious that she studied while Dawn didn't which begs the question why? If there are schools for kids becoming trainers, why haven't our "heroes" attended to said establishment.

This is most likely a technique used to introduce new kid's to the world of Pokemon as well.

It still doesn't make much sense to me. If they want to introduce new kids to Pokemon, then Ash, Dawn or May (provided that they were prodigies rather than noobs) could mentally explain to the viewers what's going on rather than having Brock explain with them dumbfounded.

I'm just saying that there could've been an alternative to all this.

 

[Kirbychu]

Like I asked before, what if they studied up on the basics of being a trainer or coordinator? What if our "heroes" were prodigies that know the basics of being a trainer like catching a Pokemon and battling with their own?

If they were good enough to win the the tournament then they would have done so; plain and simple. May and Dawn were both trainers that knew next to nothing when they began. May didn't even want anything to do with Pokemon and didn't even know that she wanted to be coordinator.

Also just because certain game mechanics don't apply to the Anime, doesn't mean the story and characters from the games don't have to apply to the Anime.

That particular part of the story doesn't apply to the anime. In the anime, if you want to challenge the Elite 4 you must win in a tournament against the greatest trainers in the region. Ash is going up against other trainers with 8+ badges, May and Dawn were going up against coordinators with 5+ ribbons. In the games you are the only one with 8 badges, except for your rival in some cases. Not to mention that it would be ridiculous if the player only came in 4th place in the games.

Not experience, studying as in reading books written by former trainers or professors like Oak or going to Pokemon Trainer School.

As Shooti always says: "That's basic, right?"

Books will only get you so far, it's like learning a sport on the internet, you need to get out there and do it as well. Experience helps you identify what your faults are, and you actually get more skill. Sure, books are excellent resources, but you need plenty of experience as well. Remember that one guy with the Skuntank in Snowpoint City?

It would certainly help them out though. At least they'd know the basics.

It's obvious that she studied while Dawn didn't which begs the question why? If there are schools for kids becoming trainers, why haven't our "heroes" attended to said establishment.

For the same reason I stated before. It's most likely to immerse the new viewers into the world.

It still doesn't make much sense to me. If they want to introduce new kids to Pokemon, then Ash, Dawn or May (provided that they were prodigies rather than noobs) could mentally explain to the viewers what's going on rather than having Brock explain with them dumbfounded.

I'm just saying that there could've been an alternative to all this.

This is very true. I don't think May and Dawn deserved to win. If they were students at a trainer's school, apprentices to great coordinators, etc. then it would make a lot more sense for them to win.

Max would have an excellent chance at winning his first league. He's traveled with great trainers for a couple years, has met tons of Pokemon, is currently attending a trainer's school, and has even battled a bit too. His father's a gym leader that's teaching him even more about training. Even before all that he was studying books and league battles. Max is only seven too, I think he would have a decent chance at victory.

 

[matt0044]

Books will only get you so far, it's like learning a sport on the internet, you need to get out there and do it as well. Experience helps you identify what your faults are, and you actually get more skill. Sure, books are excellent resources, but you need plenty of experience as well. Remember that one guy with the Skuntank in Snowpoint City?

It would certainly help them out though. At least they'd know the basics.

This is very true. I don't think May and Dawn deserved to win. If they were students at a trainer's school, apprentices to great coordinators, etc. then it would make a lot more sense for them to win.

1. So why not practice with a real Pokemon a few times before setting out?

2. Why haven't the writers done this instead of taking oh-so-predictable routes? This is why our "heroes" can't win a tournament and it's the writers' fault.

 

[Regeneration]

This is very true. I don't think May and Dawn deserved to win. If they were students at a trainer's school, apprentices to great coordinators, etc. then it would make a lot more sense for them to win.

They did gather a lot of experience traveling with Ash and Brock though. And sometimes, luck plays its part too. I don't see why someone with experience does not deserve to win.

 

[matt0044]

Books will only get you so far, it's like learning a sport on the internet, you need to get out there and do it as well. Experience helps you identify what your faults are, and you actually get more skill. Sure, books are excellent resources, but you need plenty of experience as well. Remember that one guy with the Skuntank in Snowpoint City?

It would certainly help them out though. At least they'd know the basics.

I meant as in they study up on the basics of being a trainer and learn the rest from experience out in the world.

 

[Kirbychu]

They did gather a lot of experience traveling with Ash and Brock though. And sometimes, luck plays its part too. I don't see why someone with experience does not deserve to win.

Sure, they gained some experience, but wouldn't more skillful trainers have a better chance at victory though? Coordinators that have traveled for years, with extremely powerful Pokemon that are well accustomed to contests? The people with the most skill, experience, and talent do deserve to win. Obviously May and Dawn don't fit that category.

1. So why not practice with a real Pokemon a few times before setting out?

2. Why haven't the writers done this instead of taking oh-so-predictable routes? This is why our "heroes" can't win a tournament and it's the writers' fault.

I've answered this two times.

I meant as in they study up on the basics of being a trainer and learn the rest from experience out in the world.

May and Dawn just never did that, they were complete newbies when they began. This is just the way things are. Sure, the writers could have taken that route, but they decided not to. If May and Dawn got some experience before hand, maybe they would have won.

 

[Nomad_Mu]

While for Ash not winning, that i can understand; he DOES seem to leave most of his Pokémon behind when he goes to a new region. (Not always, but often.) So even if he is experienced his Pokémon are still sort of new. Albeit his lose rate is still sort of irritating at times. But for a different reason.

But what about Pikachu?

How long has he had Pikachu? Wasn't Pikachu fairly strong to begin with? If you think about it, as much training as Pikachu has had... it shouldn't be getting taken down so easily as it does at times.

Anywho for Dawn and May, I don't know. Since they haven't been around since the beginning I don't really have much to say.

 

[matt0044]

May and Dawn just never did that, they were complete newbies when they began. This is just the way things are. Sure, the writers could have taken that route, but they decided not to. If May and Dawn got some experience before hand, maybe they would have won.

Why not? It'd make more sense if in the Anime the Professors allowed only kids who knew or studied up on the basics of being a trainer beforehand and at least tested their knowledge with a written quiz and a battle to cap it off. Hell, it'd make more sense in the games or the Manga.

Plus, it's the writers' fault for making Dawn and May out to be total newbies. I see no reason why they couldn't do what I just wrote above.

I'm just saying that there could've been an alternative to all this.

 

[Kirbychu]

Why not? It'd make more sense if in the Anime the Professors allowed only kids who knew or studied up on the basics of being a trainer beforehand and at least tested their knowledge with a written quiz and a battle to cap it off. Hell, it'd make more sense in the games or the Manga.

You know what, that reminds me of a certain Pokemon Manga. I'm pretty sure it was The Electric Tale of Pikachu. That Manga made Pokemon seem very realistic, the Pokemon even look realistic. In order to become a trainer in that continuity you must take classes about Pokemon and Pokemon training then pass some exams to get your license. Pokemon training is treated like a real sport. Misty informed Ash about how many trainers don't make it past the normal "season". Under-aged Pokemon trainers only get out of school for a short time period as well. It's very interesting.

 

[imevil]

yeah, its kindof dumb how he always loses. I thoguht he would win sinnoh, but tobias ruined that