Should unemployed people on welfare work for it?

[gimmepie]

There's more unemployed fit welfare than unfit. Some crutch by saying, "Oh I'm depressed and scared to communicate with people therefore I can't work". That's not an excuse, it would be better for them if they actually worked (and to those that think I don't know what depression is like, I do. I've seen and been through shit, my every breathe is a fucking struggle).

Depression, anxiety and agoraphobia are very real problems that can completely cripple a person and even manifest physically. You're doing people a disservice by assuming that just because you were able to manage your issues they have the ability to manage theirs.

I've been in the same position.. I suffered from appendicitis for about 3 months, and believe me, it was the 3 scariest months of my life. I was in the hospital going into surgery with a couple days to live and they needed a couple days to even consider putting me under for surgery due to the infections I had, I'm lucky to be alive. For about the first month I could somewhat work but I'd have to leave early. After that, I failed a drug test got fired and I was done. I was literally dying so I couldn't work even if I wanted to. So no, I'm not saying you should work unless you're fit to work. This is strictly about the unemployed and fit. Like the example you've given. Yes, he should work since he's fit. But given your condition you shouldn't. I never said "ALL UNEMPLOYED ON WELFARE SHOULD WORK". I only said the unemployed and fit. There's really a huge difference between the two.

As much as i on't want to bring personal experiences into the debate any further, I don't trust the government to determine who is fit and who isn't. My sister appears to be fit but her joints are tearing themselves apart and she's got severe learning issues. This is well documented but because of appearances she's still not able to get a pension.

I don't think anyone here disagrees that someone in perfect health should at least be looking for work. However I think you're dancing on a very precarious slope.

 

[Esper]

I've heard that, in America at least, welfare-to-work programs have incentivized employers to pay low wages with little or no benefits and that this has meant that people in these program are still receiving government benefits even though they're working. To do so they can have some very poor daily lives such as overly long work days away from children, for instance. It also can keep people from being able to pursue education to try to get better paying jobs in the future.

 

[ShinyUmbreon189]

Depression, anxiety and agoraphobia are very real problems that can completely cripple a person and even manifest physically. You're doing people a disservice by assuming that just because you were able to manage your issues they have the ability to manage theirs.

I gotta disagree.. Yes these are very real problems but they don't necessarily cripple people. So just because someones anti-social and they fear interacting with others that they should get a free pass? Or just because someones depressed they should get a free pass? I used to work with one of my friends, his brother literally got shot and killed while he was working.. Imagine knowing someone 18 years and he's gone while you were at work.. Guess what? He only missed 2 days of work. He'd rather work than pull "depression" card, and this dude is depressed as fuck. I would too if I saw my father get shot, my uncle get shot, knew a brother that got shot, etc. So no, depression isn't a crutch, it's a crutch for the weak minded. There are many depressed people that suck it up and go to work, while others play the depression card.

As much as i on't want to bring personal experiences into the debate any further, I don't trust the government to determine who is fit and who isn't. My sister appears to be fit but her joints are tearing themselves apart and she's got severe learning issues. This is well documented but because of appearances she's still not able to get a pension.

This is "disability", not fit.

I don't think anyone here disagrees that someone in perfect health should at least be looking for work. However I think you're dancing on a very precarious slope.

If their in perfect health and unemployed they should work for their assistance period.

 

[Jetfire]

Coming from a poverty stricken community, I've witnessed first hand how individuals abuse the system and love to get away with it.

When I was in high school, I remember listening to a lady complain about her Section 8 housing. To top it off, she started to boast about the Michael Kors bag she was able to purchase using her "Welfare money". Those comments made me furious. My parents were clocking in at least 60 hours per week each just to meet ends meet. Unfortunately, there are a number of people that take advantage of their assistance at the expense of the tax payers. But I've also met individuals that truly depend on their government assistance to survive. They have every intention to return to work but are unable to do so.

What I've come to realize is that the majority of the people abusing the program are in the rough neighborhoods.

 

[Her]

I gotta disagree.. Yes these are very real problems but they don't necessarily cripple people. So just because someones anti-social and they fear interacting with others that they should get a free pass? Or just because someones depressed they should get a free pass? I used to work with one of my friends, his brother literally got shot and killed while he was working.. Imagine knowing someone 18 years and he's gone while you were at work.. Guess what? He only missed 2 days of work. He'd rather work than pull "depression" card, and this dude is depressed as fuck. I would too if I saw my father get shot, my uncle get shot, knew a brother that got shot, etc. So no, depression isn't a crutch, it's a crutch for the weak minded. There are many depressed people that suck it up and go to work, while others play the depression card.

Congrats to your friend for having the fortitude to work through their unimaginable trauma without letting it get in the way of their job. God knows how I'd react in that situation. I'm very glad he was able to find a way to use his job as a coping mechanism, really. But this friend of yours should not be the benchmark for what people can/should do when under the effects of depression/anxiety/etc. The extremity of the case alone makes him an outlier, let alone my distaste for anyone trying to set a universal standard of judgement for those with mental health issues. I'm hardly going to accept the rationalisation of 'I went through this/my friend went through this and if we can get through it, everyone else can and if they don't then they're weak.'

Vilifying those who have not responded similarly to you is nothing less than callousness.

 

[ShinyUmbreon189]

What I've come to realize is that the majority of the people abusing the program are in the rough neighborhoods.

This is true, and it's not a stereotype either, not sure why so many people think it's stereotypical because they haven't witnessed it. What pisses me off more is they're "poor" yet they're wearing designer clothing, got the latest up to date iPhone, gaming console, HD television, nice furniture, nice whips, etc, yet they're on welfare. All the nice things I have, I earned through hard work. What I've yet to understand is, how people are so oblivious as to why they have these things. Seriously, it doesn't take einstein to figure out they're on the block hustling. Their mentality is, "I made this money on the block (illegally) so it's mine, I can't do what I want with it." No, you need a real fucking job instead of living off the system faking you're poverty stricken and for once be beneficial to society rather than a menace to society. Most even sell their food stamps to get extra money. THESE are the type of people that should be working for their welfare money if they don't have a job. Drug dealing isn't a job.

 

[gimmepie]

This is true, and it's not a stereotype either, not sure why so many people think it's stereotypical because they haven't witnessed it.

Don't make assumptions. I might not live in a US Ghetto, but I'm not some spoiled rich white kid living in a mansion either (well I'm white but that's the only part of that phrase pertaining to me). I am extremely poor, I live in a neighbourhood that is getting progressively shittier with rapidly growing illegal activity like drug use. It's by no means a dangerous neighbourhood but I have witnessed the shit you're talking about. Here at least, the people who are struggling on welfare almost all need to be or are stuck in a situation where their ability to work is irrelevant. Yes there a people abusing the system too and I despise those people. However, speaking solely of my own country, making it even harder for those those of us who aren't indigenous to get onto welfare than it already is isn't just cutting money to the abusers, it's cutting money to those of us who need it. To the majority of people on a welfare payment.

 

[ShinyUmbreon189]

Don't make assumptions. I might not live in a US Ghetto, but I'm not some spoiled rich white kid living in a mansion either (well I'm white but that's the only part of that phrase pertaining to me). I am extremely poor, I live in a neighbourhood that is getting progressively ****tier with rapidly growing illegal activity like drug use. It's by no means a dangerous neighbourhood but I have witnessed the **** you're talking about. Here at least, the people who are struggling on welfare almost all need to be or are stuck in a situation where their ability to work is irrelevant. Yes there a people abusing the system too and I despise those people. However, speaking solely of my own country, making it even harder for those those of us who aren't indigenous to get onto welfare than it already is isn't just cutting money to the abusers, it's cutting money to those of us who need it. To the majority of people on a welfare payment.

It's not an assumption it's a fact dude. I've seen too many people abusing the system in bad neighborhoods to know the difference. If you got nice shit, wear designer clothing, drive a nice and sleek ride, etc wile on welfare you shouldn't be on welfare. The reason they're on welfare is because they're "unemployed" but selling dope and doing criminal activities to make money which exceeds minimum wage by a vast margin, and if they paid these bills with that money it would draw too much attention to the authorities. These people make on average a couple hundred a day. That's more than enough to survive without welfare, but they have no proof of income therefore they can't pay their bills without assistance from the government.

 

[gimmepie]

It's not an assumption it's a fact dude. I've seen too many people abusing the system in bad neighborhoods to know the difference. If you got nice shit, wear designer clothing, drive a nice and sleek ride, etc wile on welfare you shouldn't be on welfare. The reason they're on welfare is because they're "unemployed" but selling dope and doing criminal activities to make money which exceeds minimum wage by a vast margin, and if they paid these bills with that money it would draw too much attention to the authorities. These people make on average a couple hundred a day. That's more than enough to survive without welfare, but they have no proof of income therefore they can't pay their bills without assistance from the government.

Not everyone in a bad neighbourhood or a low socio-economic area is automatically a drug dealer. Obviously there's plenty of people who abuse the system but as a matter of scale they're still the minority. As for assumptions, you're automatically assuming the small area that you've seen is representative of your entire country, possibly even multiple countries. If you can show me stats that prove you're little pocket in the world is representative, then maybe I'll believe you. I don't think you can though.

 

[Jetfire]

A new article just came up about government assistance. Not a fan of the NY times, (they mostly lie) but here take a read.

https://www.nydailynews.com/new-yor...l&utm_source=facebook.com&utm_campaign=buffer