Sick of Ash?

[Psyburn]

If they're going to keep pulling the "8 badges and lose at the league gig", then Ash has no real purpose in the show. And he seems to be getting stupider as it progresses. Dawn seems to be the only redeeming factor of the show as of now, because she is the only person getting any real character development and seems to have more challenges towards her goals than Ash does anyways. But there's to much damage to the show as it is so they pretty much need to do a completely different series.

 

[weedle_mchairybug]

If they're going to keep pulling the "8 badges and lose at the league gig", then Ash has no real purpose in the show. And he seems to be getting stupider as it progresses. Dawn seems to be the only redeeming factor of the show as of now, because she is the only person getting any real character development and seems to have more challenges towards her goals than Ash does anyways. But there's to much damage to the show as it is so they pretty much need to do a completely different series.

You know, as much as I completely dislike Dawn, you're right. Ash doesn't seem to be getting any real development other than switching teams every region. They haven't even explained what exactly a Pokemon Master is. Even when they come CLOSE to coming with an explaination, they chuck it out of the figurative window. (Like the fact that he won the Orange League, and yet despite that, he himself didn't become a Pokemon Master. Something similar happened in Battle Frontier, and that would actually make challenging even the Elite 4 a waste, as it's heavily implied that the Brains are much more powerful than the Elite 4. I mean, I can understand the not catching all the pokemon in the world [since, even without the Legends, it's still unfeasible.], but come on!). I mean, Dawn's goals were spelled out, May's goals were spelled out, heck, even Misty's Goals were more defined than Ash's goal, and considering the fact that her goal was just to become a Water Pokemon Master, something that some people argue is a clone of Ash's goal, that's saying quite a lot, if you ask me.

I mean, look, I'm fine with Ash being in the show and all that (heck, I hate replacing Main Characters, period, as it only cheapens their existance, and not to mention, if done poorly, is going to spell out disaster to the show.), but if they don't try and, if not have him actually follow through with his goal, then at LEAST explain what his goal is, they should basically start the show over from scratch, replace Ash with a new character (seeing how we are going through the same mistakes in DP that he made in the original series, it won't matter if we have to watch newbie mistakes repeated, since it will happen, anyways.).

 

[randomspot555]

Pokemon Master is.

Do they really need to? There's never been any reference that it's an actual, earned title like Gym Leader, member of the Elite 4, or (regional) Champion.

I imagine it's just a general term usually used by...well, very young, (overt)confident trainers. You know, similar to how a child might say "I want to be a doctor/lawyer/astronaut!" without knowing that all those jobs are much more than just a vague, general title.

So that's how I choose to think of it as. It's just an imaginative title, and is used to define trainers who are regarded as the best in a certain aspect of training or breeding. Just like doctors have medical specialties, I bet Pokemon trainers do too. I think the Electric Tales of Pikachu has a similar explanation of the title.

 

[enViable]

ha Ash is ****. He's like most cartoon main characters, dull and boring. Examples are Yugi from Yugioh, Ash from Pokemon, Yoh from Shaman King. the cooler characters are usually such characters but Pokemon is pretty diverse of anyone interesting. I like Brock though, I'd have a pint with him

 

[weedle_mchairybug]

Do they really need to? There's never been any reference that it's an actual, earned title like Gym Leader, member of the Elite 4, or (regional) Champion.

The Narrator actually mentioned the title a few times. Plus, some League members even mention those competing in the Leagues are the "Pokemon Masters of Tomorrow". Heck, Misty and Brock also referenced the title in regards to Ash. Heck, Professor Oak even referenced Pokemon Masters in the beginning of "Pokemon, I Choose You!" so that implies that it is an actual earned title, and not some made-up title said by overconfident kids.

 

[Psyburn]

You know, as much as I completely dislike Dawn, you're right. Ash doesn't seem to be getting any real development other than switching teams every region. They haven't even explained what exactly a Pokemon Master is.

You're right...they never did :P

All they said was capture all 150, but since they've piled on 493 or something, that goal is long gone, so its no longer catching that many pokemon.

Even when they come CLOSE to coming with an explaination, they chuck it out of the figurative window. (Like the fact that he won the Orange League, and yet despite that, he himself didn't become a Pokemon Master.

Well really, winning a championship doesn't make you a master, its just makes you a high ranking trainer who won a tourney in that specific region. A master is someone who is probably unbeatable in every sense of the word considering "master" would have knowledge and skill that far surpass ANYONE in the world. That said, since every trainer in the show has been beaten one way or another, no one is a pokemon master, and Ash has lost every pokemon league conference he participated in, so no, he would not be a master at all.

I mean, Dawn's goals were spelled out, May's goals were spelled out, heck, even Misty's Goals were more defined than Ash's goal, and considering the fact that her goal was just to become a Water Pokemon Master, something that some people argue is a clone of Ash's goal, that's saying quite a lot, if you ask me.

Yeah, though we have Brock whose goals are...well...in the trash. At least Ash is aspiring to do something, but Brock...wow...he's not doing a dang blasted thing on the show cept getting a boner by every chick he meets.

I mean, look, I'm fine with Ash being in the show and all that (heck, I hate replacing Main Characters, period, as it only cheapens their existance, and not to mention, if done poorly, is going to spell out disaster to the show.)

Replacing main characters would mainly be an attempt to fix previous mistakes with the show and do it right the second time around, but you know they could just do a complete reboot of the show. Have ash not want to aspire to be a master but to be a great trainer. I dont think there is any real end to pokemon training as far as the show goes. It's...just something that never ends unless the guy dies.

but if they don't try and, if not have him actually follow through with his goal, then at LEAST explain what his goal is, they should basically start the show over from scratch, replace Ash with a new character (seeing how we are going through the same mistakes in DP that he made in the original series, it won't matter if we have to watch newbie mistakes repeated, since it will happen, anyways.).

I Should've read this before making the above response :P

 

[BHwolfgang]

The Narrator actually mentioned the title a few times. Plus, some League members even mention those competing in the Leagues are the "Pokemon Masters of Tomorrow". Heck, Misty and Brock also referenced the title in regards to Ash. Heck, Professor Oak even referenced Pokemon Masters in the beginning of "Pokemon, I Choose You!" so that implies that it is an actual earned title, and not some made-up title said by overconfident kids.

It's just that there are four regions now; who is the real Pokémon Master out of those four?

Gosh, how is this thread keep on comin' back. I want it stickied. :|

 

[Psyburn]

I dont think anyone is a master...at least those who appear in the show. Probably some master of the past who dont exist today or some other A-pull like that would be explained in the show.

 

[False Flag]

It's hard to be a "true" pokemon master in the games too, let alone in the anime, unless you win an official regional video game showdown tournament. All pokemon teams have weaknesses and they are mostly about synergy.

As for Ash, I'm not tired of him as long as he has decent rivals like Paul and Barry. There was no point in Gary coming back though, but I want Ash to make it in the semi finals.

As for Dawn, I like her more than Ash now, but I hope she doesn't pull a Contestshipping and fall in love with Kenny. Love/hate relations are cliche in anime and Dawn needs a Paul type rival.

 

[Psyburn]

I hope no amorous relationship occurs in this show tbh. Nothing to do with personal tastes or w/e, but with how the show is done, I think pushing romance would be a bit desperate considering the state of the story as it is.

Plus, kenny? Please....hell i'd take james if I were a chick...

 

[weedle_mchairybug]

Well really, winning a championship doesn't make you a master, its just makes you a high ranking trainer who won a tourney in that specific region. A master is someone who is probably unbeatable in every sense of the word considering "master" would have knowledge and skill that far surpass ANYONE in the world. That said, since every trainer in the show has been beaten one way or another, no one is a pokemon master, and Ash has lost every pokemon league conference he participated in, so no, he would not be a master at all.

Well, technically, there IS a Pokemon Master, though whether he (or it) counts or not is debatable as he's technically a cloned pokemon. Yes, I'm talking about Mewtwo. He was stated by Nurse Puppet that he is the worlds greatest pokemon master. Also, he was stated to be unbeatable.

Yeah, though we have Brock whose goals are...well...in the trash. At least Ash is aspiring to do something, but Brock...wow...he's not doing a dang blasted thing on the show cept getting a boner by every chick he meets.

Technically, he has a goal (becoming the world's best breeder), but so far, he hasn't really gotten any of his Pokemon to reproduce (The closest thing to Breeding he's ever done was raising two eggs.).

Replacing main characters would mainly be an attempt to fix previous mistakes with the show and do it right the second time around, but you know they could just do a complete reboot of the show. Have ash not want to aspire to be a master but to be a great trainer. I dont think there is any real end to pokemon training as far as the show goes. It's...just something that never ends unless the guy dies.

Personally, I think replacing Main Characters is only going to make things worse, especially taking account of the female replacing habit. I mean, it was stated that the reason why Misty was replaced was because she wasn't "Eyecandy enough", which was pretty sick and shallow. I mean, I certainly didn't need some sort of hormones to be loyal to Misty. heck, it's BECAUSE she was unlike stereotypical female characters that I even liked her.

 

[randomspot555]

it's BECAUSE she was unlike stereotypical female characters that I even liked her.

She's based off of the Tomboy anime stereotype, which isn't any better than any other female stereotype in media. Just because you like one stereotype and hate the other doesn't make it any less of a stereotype.

 

[weedle_mchairybug]

She's based off of the Tomboy anime stereotype, which isn't any better than any other female stereotype in media. Just because you like one stereotype and hate the other doesn't make it any less of a stereotype.

Actually, she has elements that don't even match the Tomboy Stereotype in Anime. In fact, if anyone matches the Tomboy Anime Stereotype in the Anime, it's Jessie. She actually is her own class.

 

[randomspot555]

Actually, she has elements that don't even match the Tomboy Stereotype in Anime.

It's rare that a character is a pure stereotype, and that can be argued of almost any character from any fictional medium. But her stereotype is certainly the Anme Tomyboy girl. She's a tomboy. Her in-game title is The Tomboyish Mermaid. Her fans often point out qualities of her that they like BECAUSE it goes against typical girly things.

Sorry. Misty is based on a stereotype. It's okay to like one stereotype and not the other. It's not okay to think that she isn't one, because she most certainly is.

 

[Psyburn]

Well, technically, there IS a Pokemon Master, though whether he (or it) counts or not is debatable as he's technically a cloned pokemon. Yes, I'm talking about Mewtwo. He was stated by Nurse Puppet that he is the worlds greatest pokemon master. Also, he was stated to be unbeatable.

Which is ironic considering in the sequel, he succumbed to Giovanni easily and needed to be helped by someone. Besides, he probably said that in order to lure morons to his island anyways, just to capture their pokemon. Plenty of antagonists do this kind of thing all the time. The whole movie was basically Mewtwo's trap.

Personally, I think replacing Main Characters is only going to make things worse, especially taking account of the female replacing habit. I mean, it was stated that the reason why Misty was replaced was because she wasn't "Eyecandy enough", which was pretty sick and shallow. I mean, I certainly didn't need some sort of hormones to be loyal to Misty. heck, it's BECAUSE she was unlike stereotypical female characters that I even liked her.

I actually hated misty because of her unnecessary tantrums and "Mary Sue" tendencies.

But on account of why she left, I really want a source of that

 

[weedle_mchairybug]

Which is ironic considering in the sequel, he succumbed to Giovanni easily and needed to be helped by someone. Besides, he probably said that in order to lure morons to his island anyways, just to capture their pokemon. Plenty of antagonists do this kind of thing all the time. The whole movie was basically Mewtwo's trap.

Look, He was stated to be the strongest pokemon ever. Besides, the so-called lord of the sea, Kyogre, was able to be stunned by nothing more than a boat in the 9th movie.

I actually hated misty because of her unnecessary tantrums and "Mary Sue" tendencies.

Ash had unnecessary tantrums, as well. Heck, even BROCK had unnecessary tantrums as well. And I still view crying over losing as being completely unnecessary.

Anyways, she actually rarely had true tantrums (That is, fits caused for absolutely no real reason. Every time she explodes, it's usually because someone harmed her or is harming something she believes shouldn't be harmed.). That's different from the stuff the girls from Love Hina, or May/Dawn do.

But on account of why she left, I really want a source of that

The Source is in Water Pokemon Master's interview with Masamitsu Hidaka. I'll even post the exact thing on here:

His following answers made me laugh my head off I had to pick it up off the floor and reattach it. He stated that they like to switch up the girls because it gives the boys some new eye candy every once in a while. He also said girls are more customizable and you can change their outfits, like when they are in their bathing suits (yes, he specifically said that). He also said Ken Sugimori designs a new girl with each generation and that gives them another excuse to switch the girl, though I reminded him that there is also a new boy with each generation too, and it wouldn't hurt to use them.

It's in the second part of the interview here

 

[Vernikova]

I thought that Kasumi was a stereotypical typical red head.

Anyway, Satoshi has been on the show for over 10 years. If you're not use(?) to him now, you'll never be.

 

[weedle_mchairybug]

Anyway, Satoshi has been on the show for over 10 years. If you're not use(?) to him now, you'll never be.

I won't reply to the redhead thing, but it's not because I agree. It's because I really don't wish to fight.

For the second point, Who say's I'm not used to Ash? I've endured him for 5 years. But that doesn't mean he can't be replaced, even IF he's the star.

Take Stargate SGI, for example. Colonel Jack O'neill was technically the star of that series (seeing how he was the first main character to appear on-screen.), and yet, eventually, they had him retire from the main cast, and they kept the show running for about two seasons (maybe even more, had Sci-fi didn't decide to pull the plug.). I mean, if they could continue the show without having him in the main cast (or, heck, not even having him in the show, period), they can certainly do the same thing with Ash.

Sure, it's not actually related to Pokemon, but at least that example is mainstream, compared to Pokemon Special.

 

[Vernikova]

I wasn't saying it to you. It was a general statement that may or may not apply to you depending on your opinion of him.

 

[XXXBurningStarIV]

Pokemon wouldn't be the same without Ash....

I DO however say that he should evolve Pikachu already.
Raichu's so much cuter anyways.