So what's up with Ash!

[Forci Stikane]

Its not really speculation because everything I have said is based on what has and hasn't happen in the Anime therefore the only real facts we can go by is what happens in the Anime because everything else would be speculation so if anyone is saying facts than I am and if anyone is just saying speculation then you are.

And I vaguely remember that episode but in the end even if Jimmy wanted to capture it he couldn't of because his Pokémon was far too weak. Also ya they open/end on battles which proves that at least one battle happens in between episodes which still isn't enough to get said participating Pokémon so strong besides most of the battles that aren't done at the end of a episode are continued in the next anyways so saying that was kind of pointless.

(bolded for emphasis)

OKAY, NOW I SEE WHAT YOU'RE DOING. You just wanted to try to start an argument, and are too self-centered to accept what anyone else says. Uh-huh, just like what I've seen so many times before in those best described as scum.

I'm done trying to talk with you. If you're not willing to accept what others have to say then you shouldn't have bothered to post the thread.

 

[Mudkip85]

1)Why doesn't he catch more Pokemon?
--He doesn't NEED them. And were he to catch every Poke he sees...not only would it bore the viewer (e.g US!) but he would never be able to use them all and the writers would have difficulty fitting them into the story.

Well i wouldnt say he doesnt need them, as variety is always good to have, but you have to bare in mind its better to have only a handful of pokemon which have been well trained and who have developed a close friendship with its trainer than having many pokemon who you have not had the time to train all of them to a satisfactory level with good moves.

I have to agree on the fact though that it would be hard for the writers to come up with many storyparts if Ash was to go out and catch every pokemon he saw. If this was to be the case we would see each of his pokemon for a couple of episodes and not see the same pokemon again in about a season or two, so yes Ash catching every pokemon he met would be a problem. Lets also not forget about the storyparts for other pokemon trainers like Brock and Mays Pokemon Contests.

~Kipper~

 

[Poké King]

OKAY, NOW I SEE WHAT YOU'RE DOING. You just wanted to try to start an argument, and are too self-centered to accept what anyone else says. Uh-huh, just like what I've seen so many times before in those best described as scum.

I'm done trying to talk with you. If you're not willing to accept what others have to say then you shouldn't have bothered to post the thread.

Actually I wasn't trying to start an argument and I think we have yet to get to that point. And I am willing to except what others say but you don't seem to except what I say, I mean all I have done is state what you, me and everyone else has seen in the Anime, your the one who keeps saying I'm wrong in some way. If you were right hey I be the first to say that you are and so stupid me or something of that nature for being wrong but all you have offered is speculation. All this thread really should of been about was how Ash isn't the best Trainer as we see him on the Anime but you made it into something far more by going into what he does outside of the Anime as if its fact which its not, its a guess and not even an educated one. I say that because how Ash acts in the Anime is how he act outside of it and by that he wouldn't be training his Pokémon or battling that much.

But hey lets all be friends, I mean I think we all can agree Ash isn't the best Trainer and the point of this thread was to reflect upon that.

 

[Mudkip85]

Let me just start by saying that this is an excellent disscussion that is going on here and im sure that we all consider other people views whether we agree or disagree with them but we also naturally have our own opinions. Lets just keep our cool and disscuss things in a mature mannor. Noone intends to pick an arguement here but it happens when views differ Just remember that at the end of the day we are here to have fun.

And Poke King i think we all can say that Ash is not the best trainer in the anime but he has his qualities too.

~Kipper~

 

[jasonresno]

And by the way, PokeKing--I wasn't even addressing you at all when I answered those "mock" questions.

And the fact that you are wishy-washy on the point you are trying to make, makes this debate not worth my time.

 

[Poké King]

And by the way, PokeKing--I wasn't even addressing you at all when I answered those "mock" questions.

And the fact that you are wishy-washy on the point you are trying to make, makes this debate not worth my time.

Well, you quoted me so I assumed. And where am I wish washy, I'm saying he isn't a good trainer and backing it up with facts.

Also this never was supposed to be a debate really, this was just supposed to be a discussion on Ash's training skills or rather lack there of but hey if you wanna leave because you thought he was a good trainer or something and you been proven wrong then hey go right ahead. :D

 

[羨望]

Finaly,someone who thinks that ash its just a clumsy character,I have only have to say this that may be offensive to ash fans so if you are try to not read it.

Spoiler:

Ash is just a stupid remake of Red R/B/Y Red character that only do is win Gym Leaders at battles hooray but when goes to the league he looses at that semifinal match,Oh i won Orange League and Battle frontier but now i go shinou win my badges and losing again at the league.Come on other than that the writers put him with girls of the generations,Oh im with may,Now im with hikari horray.And the fact that he is with the generations girls the writers are making him gay with his stupid rival Gary how stupid and repeative you think that is.Now to the point some people loved some people hated him and im sorry to said that ash is stupid gay looser.Come on writers make this guy master whateaver end his show and create new show with a new main character and i now you may hated but people are opening there minds and geting sick of it don,t tell me you hated the anime don't watch it i don't wach it and if you think you right that the anime i successful with ash then check the ratings not very sucesful are we and check the first season rating successful in that time was world international hit but people are geting sick of it and if im wrong i hope you got guts because i don't think you have a army of people now maybe 1998s but here i no think so,The anime needs a new main character.
Sorry for a rude speech but when i mad i of something i get like this.

 

[Poké King]

I find what you said funny but I found it even funnier that you had to hide it so not to offend, I mean come on now are fans of him that sensitive.

 

[Death Rogers]

...You haven't seen a single episode of the new season, have you? A statement that outdated would have to mean that you've not only missed ALL of Pokemon:Battle Frontier, but also haven't bothered to keep up with what's going on. Somebody that lazy/uncaring & outdated shouldn't be discussing the anime, IMO.

I can discuss the Anime. This thread is not about 4kids. This is about Ash. Which I am well informed about. If you say 4kids no longer has anything to do with it, that doesn't mean you can tell me I have to leave. I will willingly edit my post if you can find information that proves me wrong.

 

[Mudkip85]

Finaly,someone who thinks that ash its just a clumsy character,I have only have to say this that may be offensive to ash fans so if you are try to not read it.

Ash is just a stupid remake of Red R/B/Y Red character that only do is win Gym Leaders at battles hooray but when goes to the league he looses at that semifinal match,Oh i won Orange League and Battle frontier but now i go shinou win my badges and losing again at the league.Come on other than that the writers put him with girls of the generations,Oh im with may,Now im with hikari horray.And the fact that he is with the generations girls the writers are making him gay with his stupid rival Gary how stupid and repeative you think that is.Now to the point some people loved some people hated him and im sorry to said that ash is stupid gay looser.Come on writers make this guy master whateaver end his show and create new show with a new main character and i now you may hated but people are opening there minds and geting sick of it don,t tell me you hated the anime don't watch it i don't wach it and if you think you right that the anime i successful with ash then check the ratings not very sucesful are we and check the first season rating successful in that time was world international hit but people are geting sick of it and if im wrong i hope you got guts because i don't think you have a army of people now maybe 1998s but here i no think so,The anime needs a new main character.
Sorry for a rude speech but when i mad i of something i get like this.

Okay as we have already stated in this thread, Ash may not be the best trainer there is, but he has at least one two major leagues. You also have to bare in mind that if he was just made to win everything by the writers, people would get very bored extremley quickly and would refrain from watching the shows. It also adds a bit of drama to the show and shows that you can never win everything. If the company dare i say it get rid of Ash and introduce a new main character to the show, they would be taking a huge risk a people might watch the first couple of episodes and decide that the new character is worse, then there would be no turning back! We have had about 12 seasons so far of the anime and it would be very pointless to just loose everything the company has created with Ash. Ash's dismisal would also mean the dismisal of the 'signature' of the show pikachu, and im sure that everyone would be annoyed to see him go. Sure the ratings are low now, but as diamond and pearl episodes are released in the U.S and the U.K, and every other country for that matter that hosts pokemon, they are almost certain to get back up.

~Kipper~

 

[Charaxes]

I'm just going to post.

This is a good discussion, just don't get it out of hand. Everything has been said nicely except one thing that I think some missed is "people can't get certain Pokemon or certain people can't get it." Like with the Legendaries, the certain ones aren't meant to be tamed. Mewtwo with Giovanni was an exception because of Mewtwo's negative connotations and origins made it a perfect fit to be a bio-weapon for the Rockets. Now, of course, the producers finally let go of that edict with the Brains.

Anymore, with a certain Pokemon, you think "that's so a certain character", you think they should have it. But that can lead to predictability and the series has that constant problem -- besides the recycling -- hence, why they're going willy-nilly. They've improved on this, but it's a problem.

That, and remember at the beginning of the series, Ash had great ambitions, but he then began to think a little smaller and more realistic as we've seen the "got to have your cake and eat it, too" types like Team Rocket on a daily basis, plus Indigo rather humbled him. Ash isn't a conquer-the-world type like say Gary, just only his corner of it. He is more accepting of his hand in life. It doesn't mean he doesn't push himself, but it means the reach doesn't exceed his grasp. I think that's right.

Other that that, there are lots of off-camera issues as lchi alluded to, like with Misty's intro in Hoenn for example. Dogasu summed it nicely.

The problem I have with the episode is that there are huge gaps in the plot that we're forced to fill in with our imaginations. So suddenly Satoshi has been keeping up with Kasumi (via telephone, I'd guess) even though he hasn't really mentioned her once in the past 43 episodes? And why are Musashi, Kojirou, and Nyasu working for this guy named Hanzou?

Or how Team Aqua had Groudon or Magma Kyorge in the Groudon v. Kyorge two-parter for another one?

Yep.

 

[Poké King]

Okay as we have already stated in this thread, Ash may not be the best trainer there is, but he has at least one two major leagues. You also have to bare in mind that if he was just made to win everything by the writers, people would get very bored extremley quickly and would refrain from watching the shows. It also adds a bit of drama to the show and shows that you can never win everything. If the company dare i say it get rid of Ash and introduce a new main character to the show, they would be taking a huge risk a people might watch the first couple of episodes and decide that the new character is worse, then there would be no turning back! We have had about 12 seasons so far of the anime and it would be very pointless to just loose everything the company has created with Ash. Ash's dismisal would also mean the dismisal of the 'signature' of the show pikachu, and im sure that everyone would be annoyed to see him go. Sure the ratings are low now, but as diamond and pearl episodes are released in the U.S and the U.K, and every other country for that matter that hosts pokemon, they are almost certain to get back up.

~Kipper~

Ya even I would say don't get rid of Ash but as for him not winning all the time, well he does pretty much. Course if they ever were to get rid of Ash I think the best way would be to have him meet the character who take over as the main character and have him in the Anime with Ash as one of his gang then as the show goes on it focus more on that character and less on Ash then eventually Ash leave to go home or something then that character take over though I guess this is a discussion for somewhere else lol but hey if they did it that way it probably work because we become attached to the character long before they had to hold the show together on there own.

Ash isn't a conquer-the-world type like say Gary.....
Or how Team Aqua had Groudon or Magma Kyorge in the Groudon v. Kyorge two-parter for another one?

Yep.

Well, Gary has stopped being that way as seen by the fact he became a researcher and no longer goes after being the best Trainer. And ya why was there never a episode showing them capture those legendaries, it would of been nice to see just how they managed that.

 

[Mudkip85]

Ya even I would say don't get rid of Ash but as for him not winning all the time, well he does pretty much. Course if they ever were to get rid of Ash I think the best way would be to have him meet the character who take over as the main character and have him in the Anime with Ash as one of his gang then as the show goes on it focus more on that character and less on Ash then eventually Ash leave to go home or something then that character take over though I guess this is a discussion for somewhere else lol but hey if they did it that way it probably work because we become attached to the character long before they had to hold the show together on there own.

I guess that could be a nice way to slowly move him out of the anime. Maybe a 'relative' of Ash could take the main charater slot like his cousin or something. However i just dont think they are ready yet to let him go.

~Kipper~

 

[Poké King]

I guess that could be a nice way to slowly move him out of the anime. Maybe a 'relative' of Ash could take the main charater slot like his cousin or something. However i just dont think they are ready yet to let him go.

~Kipper~

I think it probably be the only and best way to do it because I think a sudden change would polarize fans, like when Pokémon Chronicles came out I thought it was about Jimmy and was a bit reluctant but then I realized its just a bunch of random shows about already existing characters except for Jimmy, his crew and a few others of course.

 

[ChrisG14]

I'm not really debating with anyone, but I need to prove something

I can discuss the Anime. This thread is not about 4kids. This is about Ash. Which I am well informed about. If you say 4kids no longer has anything to do with it, that doesn't mean you can tell me I have to leave. I will willingly edit my post if you can find information that proves me wrong.

From Wikipedia:

The English adaptation of the series was produced by 4Kids Entertainment (for eight seasons), with video distribution of the series was handled by Viz for the TV series for the younger generation as well as the eighth movie forward, Kids WB! and Nintendo for the first three movies and the first special, Miramax Films, and Buena Vista Home Entertainment for the fourth movie through the seventh. The series and all feature films are directed by Kunihiko Yuyama, with English adaptations originally written by Norman Grossfeld and Michael Haigney. However, starting with the ninth season, the American branch of The Pokémon Company, Pokémon USA, replaced 4Kids as the show producers and distributors outside of Japan, and the program has a new voice cast.

Yeah... Domo Arigato :tired:

 

[Miss Reyna]

I don't want to start any arguements. I just want to say some of my views and hope that you will consider them and understand.

As in the evolution fact I will use my fave type. The fire type pokemon that Ash has gain.

In reality Ash's charmander shouldn't have evole if you consider what they show in the show. The charmander is cute and sweet in the anime but never really had any real battle experience before it evole into a charmeleon. Then when it became a charizard you see that it didn't even battle much less leave its pokeball. How could it evole you ask? Then look at Ash's fire type during Johto, Qyndaquil. That little fire pokemon has been in many tough battles under Ash's adventures in Johto. It battle singlehandly against a well trainer Scyter and Steelix plus many more powerful pokemon like a Skarmory and others. If you just add up all those battles it appeared more times then Charmander and thus gaining a lots experience and that could be tell in the battle against Jasmine's Steelix. Now that is looking at the evolution question from your angle about just what we are shown in the anime.

The angle that I am viewing and mostly everybody else is seeing is that Ash's pokemon choose when they want to evolve. It not done by experience or something like that. They evolve after a major battle or something that could result in lots of valueable experience which is the only way experience can be involve with this at all. For some reason Cyndaquil doesn't want to evolve along with Squirtle and other of Ash's pokemon that hasn't evolve. They not weak or inexperience but they just like how things are.

I know you like to hear things from just what is shown in the anime but you have to consider what they don't show. I mean the annoucner says some times that Ash is taking a break from training or is in the middle of training. Also the creators are trying to make an intresting show and they don't want to have a whole episode just where Ash is training so we get these fillers that show Ash getting inturpted from training or something. Ash isn't the best but he is good. That what makes him an intresting character and keeps the show going. They don't want to show a whole episode where Ash is training because we and they know that it will be boring.

The best way I can see the Pokemon anime is like the play MacBeth or Julius Caesar. If you have ever read those plays you notice that things happen behind the scenes. In MavBeth, Lady MacBeth suffers from guilt from killing the king and for a long while she suffer from sleep walking and talking. Thoughout the whole play the auidence or the reader only see this sleep act once but you are told by the servents that Lady MacBeth has been doing that for many night and even weeks if I remember right. In Julius Caesar, right after the death of Caesar the acts after that it is just war scenes. They make no mention of war or anything. We are just sent right into war zone and is told that most of the people who were involve in the act of killing Caesar are dead or something. As you can see a lots of things happen behind the scenes and the reader don't get to see it. That is exactally how the Pokemon anime is. We don't see Ash training his pokemon but we know that he is at some point. We only get to see the important parts of Ash and friends day. A good episode example that I suggest you see would be is Time-Warp Heals All Wounds. You see that Ash spent most of the day training with Pikachu an his other pokemon but we only see one scene at night where Pikachu used Volt Tackle to cut though a rock. There are a lot of behind the scene things that we as the viewer don't see. We have to assume that things like that happen by what we are told.

One thing I want answer is how can a ghost attack effect a normal type pokemon in the anime and in the game a ghost attack can't effect a normal type. Just something that been in my mind lately.

I not sure if that made any sense but when it comes to the anime we have basically fill in the blanks between things. I mean days could pass between episodes. One day they could gain a new pokemon and then days later we see another episode and an egg just hatch. Also you got to consider that this is just a show based on a video game where the creators are trying to make a realistic view point of the game while still making an entertaining show.

 

[kasumi_grl]

When I think of Pokemon, I think of Ash. The first time I watched the show, I was babysitting and I was instantly drawn to this character who would just not give up or stop believing in his dreams. Getting rid of Ash would spell death sentence for the series. Sometimes behind the scenes things work. Sometimes they don't and that sseems to be the case more than not for Pokemon.

-Don't double post. It makes Pichus cry.

-DC

 

[Charaxes]

The best way I can see the Pokemon anime is like the play MacBeth or Julius Caesar. If you have ever read those plays you notice that things happen behind the scenes. In MavBeth, Lady MacBeth suffers from guilt from killing the king and for a long while she sufer from sleep walking and talking. Thoughout the whole play the auidence or the reader only see this sleep act once but you are told by the servents that Lady MacBeth has been doing that for many night and even weeks if I remember right. In Julius Caesar, right after the death of Caesar the acts after that it is just war scenes. They make no mention of war or anything. We are just sent right into war zone and is told that most of the people who were involve in the act of killing Caesar are dead or something. As you can see a lots of things happen behind the scenes and the reader don't get to see it. That is exactally how the Pokemon anime is.

One thing I want answer is how can a ghost attack effect a normal type pokemon in the anime and in the game a ghost attack can't effect a normal type. Just something that been in my mind lately.

I couldn't have said it better and sums it all up nicely. It's funny you chose MacBeth and Caesar, as I'm an Othello fan myself. I think it's Shakespeare's best, personally. Some episodes definitely require exposition and that's what Chronicles' original intention was about, and some, like the movies, you have to draw your own.

I think the thing is, Ash is supposed to be a representative of the player, and clearly, everyone has their different styles and approach, as shown by the characters of the day. Unfortunately, that's the by-product of making the "player" character a character -- he develops a life onto his own. He won't be the icon like Mario or Link with their own lives, but there is something there.

Anyway, as for the Ghost/Normal dealy, don't forget his most recent showdown with Agatha in "Scheme Team". As Agatha wonderfully chided to Ash, "How could you miss that?" Indeed.

 

[Poké King]

I couldn't have said it better and sums it all up nicely.

Ya she went over it pretty good and I always did consider that there was behind the scenes action and that obviously the Anime does it differently than the game, my whole point on this was how Ash was not that good of a Trainer. It just happen to show that I had to get his poor Pokémon involved lol. But in the end we can only go by what are 2 eyes see and from what we all see its safe to say the Anime does it very differently which often will cause threads like mine to pop up.

-Don't double post. It makes Pichus cry.

-DC

LOL, now don't you all go making any Pichu's cry or else they'll evolve into Pikachu's one day and zap your butts good. :P

 

[Charaxes]

Ya she went over it pretty good and I always did consider that there was behind the scenes action and that obviously the Anime does it differently than the game, my whole point on this was how Ash was not that good of a Trainer. It just happen to show that I had to get his poor Pokémon involved lol. But in the end we can only go by what are 2 eyes see and from what we all see its safe to say the Anime does it very differently which often will cause threads like mine to pop up.

Spectulation is needed, but even so, there are times where you have to question. I certainly did with the beginning of Advanced Battle with the writing. Other than that, I always say, "it's a TV show, so you really should just relax."

Be different if the anime was something Joss Whedon wrote, then, whoa...

Still, can't complain.