So what's up with Ash!

[Miss Reyna]

Umm. I don't think what you said Roadkirby had nothing to do with what is going on here.

Well let me say what I think on the topic here.

I don't really know much about the pshyci of the pokemon in the beginning of the anime since that was a long time ago and they didn't actually try to add a deep personity to Ash's pokemon until mid Johto season so that just leaves us to guess at why Charmander evolves. It could be any of what you guys said. I can tell you one thing. I would never guess Bulbasusar to be something of a peacemaking pokemon from how hard is battles in the first season in Kanto.

All of Ash's pokemon are speacail in their unique. Still they are something rare. They each did something to prove to Ash that they are worth catching for his team. To him they are unique because of what they have done. The starter pokemon are rare pokemon since it was stated I believe in the episode Judgement Day that it is rare to see pokemon like Ivysaur, Charmeleon and Wartortise in the wild so it can be assume their starter forms are rare too. Also how do we know that the professors don't breed the starter pokemon in their lab? It got to be hard to go find them. I am sure their could be small colneies of charmanders like the Charific Valley and like the island of Squirtle and Wartortise but those must be in like one location only and hard to find. I mean Ash and friends discovered those places by accident and never seen another since. It really doesn't matter that they are rare or unique to use because in the end it only matter if they are rare and unique to Ash since he is catching them. He saw something in each one of his pokemon that made him want to catch them. I mean where else will you find a Heracross that is funloving like the ones that Ash has that is also powerful too? He saw something unique in them and that was enough reason to catch them.

Still who are we to say what is rare and what isn't rare in the anime? I mean our best guess is to use clues from the games to determine what is rare in the anime world.

 

[Mudkip85]

Umm. I don't think what you said Roadkirby had nothing to do with what is going on here.

XD

All of Ash's pokemon are speacail in their unique. Still they are something rare. They each did something to prove to Ash that they are worth catching for his team. To him they are unique because of what they have done.

Okay lets just agree with you on each of Ash's pokemon are special because of what they have done for him for a minute. I know there are pokemon of his which have proven themselves such as Torkoal, when it defeated the steelix which was causing problems for Ash to get to his next location with the gang, but then you have to think but what about pokemon like caterpie and his charmander, what have they done thats so special for Ash? I mean if anything Ash felt sorry for charmander as it was left hurt and abondoned by its trainer so if anything Ash did something special for it. But i do agree that some of Ash's pokemon have prooven themselves worthy of being part of Ash's team.

Still who are we to say what is rare and what isn't rare in the anime? I mean our best guess is to use clues from the games to determine what is rare in the anime world.

The theory of reffering to the games to guess and determine what is rare in the anime world doesnt really match. Take for example the safari zone in the games, Tauros happen to be extremley rare and are hardly ever encountered whereas in the anime somehow Ash managed to pull off capturing 30 of them.

~Kipper~

 

[Forci Stikane]

*sigh* Alright, Poke King, you want me to talk to you, fine.

Um let me see I prove you wrong about Mankey, I say Starters aren't rare which there not as explained before and ya Snorlax is heavy which means he has the strength to carry that weight therefore be able to swim.

One, starters ARE rare in the wild (yeah, professors have a bunch and trainers have them from the professors, but how many of them have a starter that they caught in the wild? How many times have they been shown in the wild?). Two, Snorlax having the strength to carry its weight doesn't change the fact that its heavy and should sink. Three, when did you prove me wrong again?

And you don't want to talk to me anymore because I am proving what you say is wrong most if not all the time and I'm the brick wall. If your right then I will tell you but if your gonna say something wrong like Starters being rare I'm not gonna just sit back and make anyone who reads this who doesn't know the truth believe such a lie. Besides in the end I can admit when I am wrong, just ask Mudkip85 as I admitted to making a mistake from something he said yet no where in this thread have you said you were wrong about something even though you been repeatedly wrong and I am the brick wall remember lol.

No, I don't want to talk to you because I don't see the point. You seem to think that you're the be-all-and-end-all of Pokemon fans when I can clearly see that you just can't stand to be proven wrong. That's why you keep making up excuses. For instance:

Ash decided to capture Mankey it was a Mankey at the time but before he actually began the process of capturing him it evolved. So technically he initially was going after a Mankey and ya it evolved before capture but all that matters is origninal intent.

No, you were trying to list his Pokemon.

So the reason he doesn't capture Pokémon a lot is because he only wants to capture rare and unusual Pokémon. Lets review his Pokémon and see the levity of that statement:

Mankey

And since he's never actually owned a Mankey, you were wrong.

Oh and if I'm scum or whatever you meant for me saying I was right, considering you just called someone a dummy for something they were right on I wouldn't be taking the morale high ground. And how interesting you didn't comment on when I said you insulted someone lol. I guess you didn't want to further show how you like to insult people.

What I said in the first place was "just like what I've seen so many times before in those best described as scum", which is quite true. Anybody who has to resort to saying "I'm right, you're wrong" is best described as scum. And yeah, it's not an insult if it's true (as has been proven...again and again).

In the end if I am wrong I'll make up a reason why I'm not really wrong, if I am right I will admit it, if someone is right I will say they are wrong unless they're agreeing with me and if someone is wrong I will admit it (or even if they're right).

There. Now that's truth.

Oh and you mentioned me saying probably and how bad it was or something, thats funny considering most of your post in this thread has been speculation but whatever.

Actually, I brought it up because you were making a big deal about how it was bad to speculate and you were only going by what you're seen in the anime

Its not really speculation because everything I have said is based on what has and hasn't happen in the Anime therefore the only real facts we can go by is what happens in the Anime because everything else would be speculation

so you're going against what you were saying earlier. You really ARE being wishy-washy, and that makes for a very poor argument.

 

[Poké King]

*sigh* Alright, Poke King, you want me to talk to you, fine.
One, starters ARE rare in the wild (yeah, professors have a bunch and trainers have them from the professors, but how many of them have a starter that they caught in the wild? How many times have they been shown in the wild?). Two, Snorlax having the strength to carry its weight doesn't change the fact that its heavy and should sink. Three

Yes, Starters are rare in the wild but by being in the hands of practically every Trainers makes them not rare. Oh and considering there specially bred if those who do so wanted to they could breed them heavily to the point there as common as a Pidgey but they don't want to or else no one would want them as Starters as who wants something that is super common.

As for Snorlax last time I checked if someone is on the heavy side they will sink easier than a lighter person but that doesn't mean they can't swim so ya Snorlax is big and heavy but he is strong to because of it therefore it can swim. I don't see how you can argue about whether a Pokémon can or can't swim when they obviously can swim but hey that's you lol.

No, you were trying to list his Pokemon.

Ya I was listing the Pokémon he wanted to capture and was successful in doing so, so he was trying to capture a Mankey which is why I put down Mankey instead of Primeape though I will say I forgot about Phanphy coming from an Egg. You see that right there, that's called admitting being wrong. You should try that sometime.

And since he's never actually owned a Mankey, you were wrong.

Never said he owned a Mankey, I said that was what he tried to capture. Maybe I should of said that as direct as I could of but I thought considering we at the time were talking about why he captures Pokémon that everyone assume the Pokémon I listed were ones he tried to capture and was successful at and ya Mankey evolved before Ash captured it but he initially went after it when it was a Mankey therefore starting attempting to capture a Mankey.

What I said in the first place was "just like what I've seen so many times before in those best described as scum", which is quite true. Anybody who has to resort to saying "I'm right, you're wrong" is best described as scum. And yeah, it's not an insult if it's true (as has been proven...again and again).

Well, last I checked all your post say I am right and you are wrong in some way. If you were right then hey that be fine just like its fine for me to do the same but if your wrong and say your right then say something is wrong that someone said when they say something right or prove you wrong that is being scum.

There. Now that's truth.

Um you just fabricated something and called it the truth, that will definitely go in my hall of fame of lol's.

Actually, I brought it up because you were making a big deal about how it was bad to speculate and you were only going by what you're seen in the anime

And the reason I made a big deal about speculation because when you came into this thread on your high horse in the beginning all you spouted was speculation so to see you then get on me for saying probably I had to say something. And we all can only go by what's in the Anime, even my comment on Charmander and why he changed when becoming Charmeleon was based off what was seen of it as Charmander in the Anime.

so you're going against what you were saying earlier. You really ARE being wishy-washy, and that makes for a very poor argument.

No I am not, everything I have said has been based off the Anime to which this discussion can only take fact from because taking fact from your imagination isn't fact.

when did you prove me wrong

Where do I begin, lets see:

1) You said its not all about capturing Pokémon when I said why doesn't he capture Pokémon but I then responded by saying the goal of being a Pokémon Trainer is to capture/train Pokémon. Proven wrong for the first time.

2) You said Ash taught Pikachu Volt Tackle but he didn't. Proven wrong for the second time.

3) You made a comment on how he could forget the whole Normal/Ghost Type thing but I said he wants to be a Pokémon Master so he can't forget something that is basic. Proven wrong for the third time.

4) You said the reason he focused on a small amount of Pokémon was because its better to have a few Level 100's than a bunch of Level 50's and I said if he trained them right they all be Level 100's. Proven wrong for the fourth time.

5) You gave two reasons on why his Pokémon don't evolve and acted like what I said was wrong then I gave a third reason which you seems to think not possible of being the truth which was they weren't trained well enough. Proven wrong for the fifth time.

6) You said my comments lacked in the fact department but all you did in your first post as well as other is spout speculation by saying he may battle Brock in between episodes. Proven wrong for the sixth time.

And that was just one of your many post, I could go over every one of your post but even I don't have that kind of patience.
Oh and of course I proved you wrong a few times other than 1 to 6 in this post so count those to lol.


Now if you wanna argue everything I said you can course someone could argue the sky is green but that doesn't make them right. :D

Oops forgot one:

No, I don't want to talk to you because I don't see the point. You seem to think that you're the be-all-and-end-all of Pokemon fans when I can clearly see that you just can't stand to be proven wrong. That's why you keep making up excuses. For instance:

Actually I don't think I am the uberest fan there is and if I am wrong I do admit it as seen in this post with Phanphy but what I can't stand is someone coming in a thread saying people are not just wrong but calling them dummies as you did when I know the people you are calling wrong are right and that includes me of course. I mean how are you gonna say poor little Snorlax can't swim, that's just mean lol.

 

[goofy_charizard_girl]

Well first of all, yes I to do no recall that when Ash saw a pokemon, he got like:"Oh, look a *pokemon*. I will catch it" or something like that. And I think that it was said in anime that a pokemon trainer, if he or she wants to be a pokemon master, needs to catch all pokemon. But I think that Ash doesn't think that way and I don't think that's a problem (that he doesn't think he needs to catch 'em all). Also when you play a game on Gameboy you actually finish the game when you win in a Leuge and aren't you then considered a pokemon master? But than in a game that doesn't mean that you're the best cuz you can still go to Battle tower and you meet there some really tough trainers. So I don't know about that. But lets go back to the real question. Well I think that it isn't necesary that you catch all pokemon to become a master. If you look in anime, there, you can not catch a legendary pokemon. At least no one did yet (or did it, cuz I didn't wach all the episodes) and I think nobody ever will. And if nobody ever will, does that meen that there could never be a pokemon master?
I think pokemon master should just mean that you are the best in batteling and you have the strongest pokemon.
Oh and about Ash never trains... Well you must allways keep in mind that that is just an anime and people make them as they wish so I just imagine that Ash trains but it is never in episodes cuz maybe a guy who made this anime thought that that is already obvious or he just thought that would take too much time of an episode to show it. And I think that same goes for fighting other trainers.
And another thing, maybe Ash is lucky sometimes, but I personaly belive that he has skills as a trainer and a lot of times remembers something great to make him win. And you shouldn't compare anime and a Gameboy game cuz in anime you don't have levels and that. Anime is much more real. Anyway how can you train your pokemon to level 100 and than it just stops?! That's pathetic! I mean, a pokemon can allways learn new things and can allways become stronger.
Just one thing more. My opinion on Ash, that he uses pokemon which are in disadvantege by his opponets pokemon, is that there is nothing wrong with that. A pokemon can still beat his foe pokemon, even if first on is in disadvantege. It all comes to which one is more powerful and obviously Ashes pokemons are great!:P

 

[Scarlet Weather]

In the Anime the reason Tailow can resist Electric Type Moves is because of its determination not because it being special. And since you like proof so much I just reviewed the episode in which Tailow was captured by Ash. Brock even mentioned in the episode the Electric attacks took effect and it was that Tailow just wouldn't give up that caused it to keep fighting. And that was the reason Ash caught it in the first place because if it kept going if not stopped it be hurt severely as Brock also mentioned. Think about it like this, in Naruto when Gaara and Rock Lee battled he got up after being messed up severely by sheer will power even though his body was shot to hell which is why the battle was stopped because if it wasn't he may of died.

And that doesn't make you special? Most people in a situation like that would crumple to the ground. And Rock Lee, my boy, is special- he has an almost unmatchable determination. People like him are hard to find in real life. Do you think they're any less rare in the anime?

3) You made a comment on how he could forget the whole Normal/Ghost Type thing but I said he wants to be a Pokémon Master so he can't forget something that is basic. Proven wrong for the third time.

So I want to be a writer and because of that I can't make a grammar error. *snerk*

You said the reason he focused on a small amount of Pokémon was because its better to have a few Level 100's than a bunch of Level 50's and I said if he trained them right they all be Level 100's. Proven wrong for the fourth time.

What does "training them right" mean? And I have some evidence for as to why Ash and Brock could be fighting in between episodes- they're having a practice battle when Brock's Mudkip evolves. Look it up. This means that they might, in fact, be battling each other in between episodes, and it just isn't shown. Not much evidence, true, but it's evidence that they have trained at least once together, and why not do it more often then once?

You said its not all about capturing Pokémon when I said why doesn't he capture Pokémon but I then responded by saying the goal of being a Pokémon Trainer is to capture/train Pokémon. Proven wrong for the first time.

Note the "/train". Ash focuses on training Pokemon and competing in gym battles with them. Yeesh!

The theory of reffering to the games to guess and determine what is rare in the anime world doesnt really match. Take for example the safari zone in the games, Tauros happen to be extremley rare and are hardly ever encountered whereas in the anime somehow Ash managed to pull off capturing 30 of them.

Ahem... a theory surrounding Ash's capture of the herd was that it was a parody of how rare the Pokemon are in the games, and anyway, Ash wasn't trying to catch them. They just ran in front of every Pokemon he went after and he caught them all by mistake. It's about the same odds as Ash finding a wild Treecko.

[So being brave means your unusual?
/QUOTE]

Think about this seriously- if you were a foot tall and had mediocre control over your attacks, would you go into that valley? I wouldn't. I'd stay outside and prepare for weeks. Torkoal, on the other hand... besides, Steelix is also a ground type, which has an advantage against fire, and might have been at a much higher level then Torkoal.

Now if you wanna argue everything I said you can course someone could argue the sky is green but that doesn't make them right.

The difference here is that you're wrong sometimes, and the sky is never green.

In the Charicific Valley none of the Charizard belong to any Trainers, there all wild. Except for Ash's Charizard and Liza's Charizard Charla of course. Oh and even if Starters are rare in the wild by being specially bred and that most Trainers in the world have them they are inturn not rare because so many Trainers have them. An example of why there not rare is this: Say Magikarp were in reality rare but then one day someone made a bunch of them and placed them all around the world, in time through mating they became abundant. Point is even though they were rare at first because of them being spread across the world and breeding they become common just like Starters may be rare at first but as they are given to all Trainers pretty much they inturn become common and though there not common in the wild they still are common in the respect that there are so many held by most Trainers. That was a bit convoluted but I think my point go across.

Wild starters, however, are unusual. Rarity is based off of how many Pokemon are in the wild, the way I see it. Like I said, I wasn't sure about the Charific Valley episode as I usually keep up with the show by looking at episode pictures and reading summaries on Serebii.

You gave two reasons on why his Pokémon don't evolve and acted like what I said was wrong then I gave a third reason which you seems to think not possible of being the truth which was they weren't trained well enough. Proven wrong for the fifth time

[Sarcasm] And I suppose you not believing Icha's version is entirely different.[/Sarcasm]

Now, feel free to argue with everything I've just said, but don't expect me to listen to anyone who speaks as if theirs is the only true viewpoint.

Toh.

 

[Poké King]

If you look in anime, there, you can not catch a legendary pokemon. At least no one did yet (or did it, cuz I didn't wach all the episodes) and I think nobody ever will. And if nobody ever will, does that meen that there could never be a pokemon master?

Well, as for no one capturing Legendaries there have been many attempts and some temporary successes. For instants Team Aqua and Magma did manage to contain Kyogre & Groudon though they didn't manage to traditionally capture them via Poké Ball for some reason. Raiko was contained, Mewtwo could be considered to be contained until it broke free, Jirachi was temporarily contained, Celebi was caught in Pokémon 4Ever by that Dark Poké Ball thing, Latios is contained in Pokémon Heroes, Deoxys in a way was contained in its hyberantive state or whatever you call it when it was just the jewel thing in Pokémon: Destiny Deoxys, in Pokémon The Movie 2000: The Power of One all three Legendary Birds were contained, a Baby Lugia is contained and as for others nothing is coming to mind. But as what I have said numerous Legendary have been captured in some respect but stuff happens to help them out of the situation, the help usually being of the non legendary variety.

And that doesn't make you special? Most people in a situation like that would crumple to the ground. And Rock Lee, my boy, is special- he has an almost unmatchable determination. People like him are hard to find in real life. Do you think they're any less rare in the anime?

Well, I used that example as it fit the situation because he made it seem as if Tailow was not effected by Electric Types Moves or something where as it was and I was just showing that. But still determination still isn't unusual or rare.

So I want to be a writer and because of that I can't make a grammar error. *snerk*.

Um what are you talking about? The comment wasn't directed to you and where is the grammar error even if it was directed to you which is wasn't.

What does "training them right" mean? And I have some evidence for as to why Ash and Brock could be fighting in between episodes- they're having a practice battle when Brock's Mudkip evolves. Look it up. This means that they might, in fact, be battling each other in between episodes, and it just isn't shown. Not much evidence, true, but it's evidence that they have trained at least once together, and why not do it more often then once?.

Ya that shows they did it once, so if you can say they probably did it more why can't I say they probably didn't. Like I said before if I say no to something that hasn't been proven a few of you say but...maybe and your going on speculation but you act like I am wrong when I am going by what we see in the Anime and considering that moment you speak of was one of the few times we have ever since Ash battle someone in his gang out of the hundreds of episodes that isn't saying much in fact to prove they may be doing it outside the Anime.

Note the "/train". Ash focuses on training Pokemon and competing in gym battles with them. Yeesh!.

I thought we went over that Ash doesn't or at least is not seen training his Pokémon much so why keep bringing it up when we just have the Anime to go by and on the Anime he is not seen doing it much. Yeesh lol.

Think about this seriously- if you were a foot tall and had mediocre control over your attacks, would you go into that valley? I wouldn't. I'd stay outside and prepare for weeks. Torkoal, on the other hand... besides, Steelix is also a ground type, which has an advantage against fire, and might have been at a much higher level then Torkoal..

Ya but being brave isn't a sign of unusualness or rarity so why bring it up again as you said that 1 foot thing for a second time now just like with the Tauros thing.

The difference here is that you're wrong sometimes, and the sky is never green..

Ya I can be wrong sometimes like with forgetting Phanphy was gotten via an Egg and last I checked at what point in this thread did I ever say I am never wrong, I mean I just admitted I can be a few words ago lol. You must be thinking of Ichapokemr and I am sure some how he argue the sky is green lol.

Wild starters, however, are unusual. Rarity is based off of how many Pokemon are in the wild, the way I see it. Like I said, I wasn't sure about the Charific Valley episode as I usually keep up with the show by looking at episode pictures and reading summaries on Serebii..

Well, I know a site you can watch practically all episodes of the Anime so if you want the link I can give it you so you don't have to do the picture/summary thing.

As for them being rare, I will say in the wild they are rare and usually I do determine rarity by the availability in the wild to because normally that is the only way but because how you get Starters is by them being given to you how you determine there rarity is reversed because though rare in the wild there available to any Trainer who wants them when starting out so in the wild there rare but domestically speaking there not. An example of this is say you go to a Pet Store and see a animal that is considered rare in the world but there are like 200 of them in the store at any time, though rare in the world they are common to anyone who goes to the store therefore by that example Starters though rare in the wild are common to Trainers who want them when starting out therefore are not rare to those that matter which are of course are the Trainers because there the ones who have to worry about rarity of Pokémon because there the ones who capture them after all.

[Sarcasm] And I suppose you not believing Icha's version is entirely different.[/Sarcasm]

Never said he was wrong for the two reasons he gave, just said he was wrong for acting like I was wrong for adding another valid choice which was they weren't trained well, course you took it in a bad way so you could do the whole sarcasm thing because if you took it in the way that any other person would then you couldn't of been a smart alack by being sarcastic.

Now, feel free to argue with everything I've just said, but don't expect me to listen to anyone who speaks as if theirs is the only true viewpoint.

I except all viewpoints but if someone is gonna say something that is wrong I will correct them just as I would expect someone to correct me if I said something wrong. Course if someone corrects me when I am not wrong or I correct someone when there not wrong then I expect someone to say something just like I have been doing in this thread with people who have said things that weren't either partially or fully right. Because how can we learn if we go on believing half truths or straight out lies, god forbid someone comes into a thread and tries to make it so people stop thinking something is right when its wrong like how can anyone think a Snorlax can't swim lol.

 

[Mudkip85]

Well first of all, yes I to do no recall that when Ash saw a pokemon, he got like:"Oh, look a *pokemon*. I will catch it" or something like that. And I think that it was said in anime that a pokemon trainer, if he or she wants to be a pokemon master, needs to catch all pokemon. But I think that Ash doesn't think that way and I don't think that's a problem (that he doesn't think he needs to catch 'em all). Also when you play a game on Gameboy you actually finish the game when you win in a Leuge and aren't you then considered a pokemon master? But than in a game that doesn't mean that you're the best cuz you can still go to Battle tower and you meet there some really tough trainers. So I don't know about that. But lets go back to the real question. Well I think that it isn't necesary that you catch all pokemon to become a master. If you look in anime, there, you can not catch a legendary pokemon. At least no one did yet (or did it, cuz I didn't wach all the episodes) and I think nobody ever will. And if nobody ever will, does that meen that there could never be a pokemon master?

Becoming a pokemon master, does not necassarily mean that you have to capture every single pokemon out there, because as you know there are still many new pokemon to be discovered past the Sinnoh region that trainers in the anime do not know of yet, so you cant ever say that you have defenitley caught every pokemon out there. As for the oppurtunities of catching legendaries there have been various occassions where Ash has had the chance to capture them. Apart from the movies where he could have potentially caught the likes of Entei and the legedary birds, Articuno, Zapdos, and Moltres, throughout the anime he has encountered Ho-oh, Lugia, Suicine, celebi, deoxys, Groudon and Kyrogue, but did not capture niether one of them. As for has anyone captured a legendary before, in theory no but there has been one occassion i do recall back in Hoenn where Ash met a boy who lived on an island in Hoenn that had a Lugia who stayed and played with him.

Just one thing more. My opinion on Ash, that he uses pokemon which are in disadvantege by his opponets pokemon, is that there is nothing wrong with that. A pokemon can still beat his foe pokemon, even if first on is in disadvantege. It all comes to which one is more powerful and obviously Ashes pokemons are great!:P

Agreed but its not just about the power of a pokemon either, Ash uses every possible way in which he can use his pokemon to the best of their ability. When his pokemon are at a disadvantage he not only uses his pokemon wisley but analyzes his opponents pokemon to see which angle is best to approach from. One last thing is that Ash also makes use of his surroundings in battles and has done this throughout many of his battles with other, trainers, rivals, gym battles, and even in the major leagues.

~Kipper~

 

[Poké King]

As for has anyone captured a legendary before, in theory no but there has been one occassion i do recall back in Hoenn where Ash met a boy who lived on an island in Hoenn that had a Lugia who stayed and played with him.

But I just did list a bunch of times either Legendaries were caught or contained in some way. And also if you recall the Frontier Brain of the Battle Factory befriended Articuno which got beat by Ash's Charizard so then I guess Ash could of caught it then as it technically wasn't the Frontier Brains.

 

[goofy_charizard_girl]

Agreed but its not just about the power of a pokemon either, Ash uses every possible way in which he can use his pokemon to the best of their ability. When his pokemon are at a disadvantage he not only uses his pokemon wisley but analyzes his opponents pokemon to see which angle is best to approach from. One last thing is that Ash also makes use of his surroundings in battles and has done this throughout many of his battles with other, trainers, rivals, gym battles, and even in the major leagues.

~Kipper~

Yes I am totally with you. I think that Ash really knows what he's doing.:)

 

[Charaxes]

Stop bringing up Legendaries, since I already brought up the idea back when. Haha.

Anyway, this is getting a little out of hand and despite the fact I think we've mined the possibilities, I'll let this have one final chance. However, keep this professional, and no backhanded compliments (I read what you said about Ichi and his thinking "the sky is being green" comment, Poke King).

I'm starting to get a headache.

 

[Poké King]

Anyway, this is getting a little out of hand and despite the fact I think we've mined the possibilities, I'll let this have one final chance. However, keep this professional, and no backhanded compliments (I read what you said about Ichi and his thinking "the sky is being green" comment, Poke King).

I'm starting to get a headache.

Well, I think we have thoroughly gone over everything when it comes to Ash from how incompetent he is to his selection of Pokémon and how there not so rare & unusual. Me personally I think if it wasn't for Ichapokemr using speculation to counter what I and other people say then turn around and attack them if they god forbid say he is wrong as well as call them names then this wouldn't even be on the 4th page and the discussion been over by the 3rd page.

As for my sky is green remark, ya it was a little bad on my part to say but geez when you say a Snorlax can't swim and go on & on arguing with people after they clearly proved you wrong in some way something like the comment I made just comes out. So sorry for the comment and hopefully Ichapokemr will take in account what you said to and maybe we won't be on the 10th page having this same discussion later on.

------------------------------------------
To cut this thread a bit short lets talk about something that hasn't been discussed thoroughly and proven one way or the other. So nothing about Ash's skills as a Trainer, nothing about him Training his Pokémon, nothing about how he some how wins battles, nothing about the rarity of Starters, nothing about the rareness or unusualness of his Pokémon. As for other stuff feel free to discuss them but the other stuff I just listed try not to talk about because either I or someone else has thoroughly explained the answers to those things.

And as I am the creator of this thread I don't think its to wrong for me to ask what I just did because why go on about what has already been decided on through facts and not speculation. Because its just a waist of time and replies. And ya I am up for a healthy discussion but once something has been discussed and the result can't be disputed there is no point to further talk about it and try to dispute it.

 

[Charaxes]

Well, I think we have thoroughly gone over everything when it comes to Ash from how incompetent he is to his selection of Pokémon and how there not so rare & unusual. Me personally I think if it wasn't for Ichapokemr using speculation to counter what I and other people say then turn around and attack them if they god forbid say he is wrong as well as call them names then this wouldn't even be on the 4th page and the discussion been over by the 3rd page.

As for my sky is green remark, ya it was a little bad on my part to say but geez when you say a Snorlax can't swim and go on & on arguing with people after they clearly proved you wrong in some way something like the comment I made just comes out. So sorry for the comment and hopefully Ichapokemr will take in account what you said to and maybe we won't be on the 10th page having this same discussion later on.

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To cut this thread a bit short lets talk about something that hasn't been discussed thoroughly and proven one way or the other. So nothing about Ash's skills as a Trainer, nothing about him Training his Pokémon, nothing about how he some how wins battles, nothing about the rarity of Starters, nothing about the rareness or unusualness of his Pokémon. As for other stuff feel free to discuss them but the other stuff I just listed try not to talk about because either I or someone else has thoroughly explained the answers to those things.

And as I am the creator of this thread I don't think its to wrong for me to ask what I just did because why go on about what has already been decided on through facts and not speculation. Because its just a waist of time and replies. And ya I am up for a healthy discussion but once something has been discussed and the result can't be disputed there is no point to further talk about it and try to dispute it.

Ichi didn't speculate as such, or he did with the logical conclusion in mind. Unfortunately, one big factor is the anime's templates and how loose their overall continuity is. Actually, Pokemon Special covered the levels of Red/Ash's Pokemon and covers all the mechanics in depth, so I suggest you read that (and I wish I said it sooner, but Special is in a separate category from the anime, so I didn't think it material). That being said, I don't mind speculation per se, as long as it can provoke thought and to compensate for the holes both the anime in its Japanese and dub formats (like with the Tauros), but the point is not to be convoluted or nitpicky or trapped by your own logic.

And I think we analyzed the crap out of this. Heh.

 

[Poké King]

Ichi didn't speculate as such, or he did with the logical conclusion in mind. Unfortunately, one big factor is the anime's templates and how loose their overall continuity is.

He did do a lot of speculation and though some may have been educated guesses anytime I said something that was not speculation he made it seem as if I was speculating and didn't know what I was talking about which was my biggest problem with him. I mean I didn't mind that he speculated really but minded that when someone proved him wrong by stating fact he acted is if what he said was fact, I mean if your going to speculate you can't then turn around and act like its fact so you can attack someone who proved you wrong by stating actual fact.

Actually, Pokemon Special covered the levels of Red/Ash's Pokemon and covers all the mechanics in depth, so I suggest you read that (and I wish I said it sooner, but Special is in a separate category from the anime, so I didn't think it material). That being said, I don't mind speculation per se, as long as it can provoke thought and to compensate for the holes both the anime in its Japanese and dub formats (like with the Tauros), but the point is not to be convoluted or nitpicky or trapped by your own logic.

And I think we analyzed the crap out of this. Heh.

Never read that and since its not the Anime and this discussion is about how Ash acts in the Anime you were right not to mention it because it has nothing to do with this thread's discussion. Now if this was an overall look at Ash in all media and what not then it would but this thread is just about the Anime or else it be in the General section.

And I think we analyzed the crap out of this. Heh.

We didn't really over analyze anything as everything really had simple yes or no answers but because people kept going on and on even if they were wrong it made people like me repeat answers and make them as detailed as possible so the person could realize they were wrong like with Snorlax, can it swim..yes of course it can. But because Ichapokemr decided to keep countering that I had to go into it being strong enough and all that. And of course there are many other examples like me having to keep repeatedly going over why Starters aren't rare.

Point is in this thread if people just understood when they were wrong and weren't so hard headed they except what someone said and realized they were wrong which make this thread be like 2 pages instead of 4. Like half the time I posted in this thread I was countering people who countered what I said even though everything I said was based off what has been seen in the Anime where as what they said to counter for the most part was pure speculation.

But like I said could we stop discussing things that have been answered thoroughly because having to go over things over and over takes the fun away from a friendly discussion.

 

[Scarlet Weather]

Um what are you talking about? The comment wasn't directed to you and where is the grammar error even if it was directed to you which is wasn't.

*slaps forehead* Okay, let me explain this. What I meant was that even if I was trying to be the best writer in the world, I could still make grammar errors, correct? Well, by the same token, Ash can make stupid mistakes even if he's trying to be a Pokemon master. Touche.

Never said he was wrong for the two reasons he gave, just said he was wrong for acting like I was wrong for adding another valid choice which was they weren't trained well, course you took it in a bad way so you could do the whole sarcasm thing because if you took it in the way that any other person would then you couldn't of been a smart alack by being sarcastic.


Your grammar and phrasing is getting so convoluted that I can hardly understand you. Let me see if I've got this straight- you're saying that because I don't agree with you and think you are wrong then I cannot point out that you don't accept my viewpoint as being the correct one, even though I have some supporting evidence and yours is based on speculation? What evidence, you ask? Well, if Ash wins all those battles with basic Pokemon, they must be trained somehow, as it is completely impossible for anyone to be that lucky. Humanly impossible. And another thing, do you ever think about the fact that once again, the only time levels in the anime have been mentioned is in "The School of Hard Knocks"? For the rest of the anime, they pretty much don't matter- therefore, it doesn't matter what "level" they are at, and Ash is training them just fine, thank you. Now get off his back.

He did do a lot of speculation and though some may have been educated guesses anytime I said something that was not speculation he made it seem as if I was speculating and didn't know what I was talking about which was my biggest problem with him. I mean I didn't mind that he speculated really but minded that when someone proved him wrong by stating fact he acted is if what he said was fact, I mean if your going to speculate you can't then turn around and act like its fact so you can attack someone who proved you wrong by stating actual fact.

"Some" here meaning "all". And you do the same thing, Poke King.



But I just did list a bunch of times either Legendaries were caught or contained in some way. And also if you recall the Frontier Brain of the Battle Factory befriended Articuno which got beat by Ash's Charizard so then I guess Ash could of caught it then as it technically wasn't the Frontier Brains.

Yeah- but aside from Articuno and the baby Lugia, who weren't owned by the humans they stayed with, but wanted to stay with them anyway because they were friends, all the others were caught by bad guys, reinforcing the theory that it is considered wrong to capture a legendary Pokemon in the anime. And I wouldn't be evil enough to catch and take away a baby Lugia, or take Articuno from Noland. Besides, Noland would kill me if I did. (By the way, I know you're about to make a comment about Brandon's Pokemon- trust me, don't get me started on the legendaries. It's probably for the best that that particular debate ended.)

To cut this thread a bit short lets talk about something that hasn't been discussed thoroughly and proven one way or the other. So nothing about Ash's skills as a Trainer, nothing about him Training his Pokémon, nothing about how he some how wins battles, nothing about the rarity of Starters, nothing about the rareness or unusualness of his Pokémon. As for other stuff feel free to discuss them but the other stuff I just listed try not to talk about because either I or someone else has thoroughly explained the answers to those things.

And as I am the creator of this thread I don't think its to wrong for me to ask what I just did because why go on about what has already been decided on through facts and not speculation. Because its just a waist of time and replies. And ya I am up for a healthy discussion but once something has been discussed and the result can't be disputed there is no point to further talk about it and try to dispute it.

1. What are we supposed to talk about then? Why Ash's mother has an odd fixation with his underwear?

2.I think the facts can still be disputed, for the most part- oh, and btw since Ash himself made that "I only want rare Pokemon" comment he it cannot be disputed that they are what he wants. I've been wondering about his various captures, and I think I've come up with the answer- Ash only thinks these Pokemon are rare because he's hardly ever seen another trainer with one that we know of! (That one isn't too serious of a theory, but I can see Ash doing that.)

We didn't really over analyze anything as everything really had simple yes or no answers but because people kept going on and on even if they were wrong it made people like me repeat answers and make them as detailed as possible so the person could realize they were wrong like with Snorlax, can it swim..yes of course it can. But because Ichapokemr decided to keep countering that I had to go into it being strong enough and all that. And of course there are many other examples like me having to keep repeatedly going over why Starters aren't rare.

They are. Wild starters are. Bred starters, you fail to understand, fall into a different category entirely. And remember, not every single trainer has a starter Pokemon. Gym Leaders, for example.

Point is in this thread if people just understood when they were wrong and weren't so hard headed they except what someone said and realized they were wrong which make this thread be like 2 pages instead of 4. Like half the time I posted in this thread I was countering people who countered what I said even though everything I said was based off what has been seen in the Anime where as what they said to counter for the most part was pure speculation.

Alright then. Accept that you are in the wrong sometimes. I'm waiting for you to do so. I'll shut up then.

I except all viewpoints but if someone is gonna say something that is wrong I will correct them just as I would expect someone to correct me if I said something wrong. Course if someone corrects me when I am not wrong or I correct someone when there not wrong then I expect someone to say something just like I have been doing in this thread with people who have said things that weren't either partially or fully right. Because how can we learn if we go on believing half truths or straight out lies, god forbid someone comes into a thread and tries to make it so people stop thinking something is right when its wrong like how can anyone think a Snorlax can't swim lol.

I think you mean "accept". And while I agree with you about "swimming Snorlax", I can't agree with you on much else because you automatically rule viewpoints wrong, even if they are no more speculative then your own.

Ya I can be wrong sometimes like with forgetting Phanphy was gotten via an Egg and last I checked at what point in this thread did I ever say I am never wrong, I mean I just admitted I can be a few words ago lol. You must be thinking of Ichapokemr and I am sure some how he argue the sky is green lol.

It isn't green? (Just kidding, just kidding.) Hmm... you know, the sky isn't always blue either, however. Sometimes it's pink, purple, red, even grey if clouds are covering it. Our viewpoints are equally valid, and you haven't proved a single major point (note the emphasized "major") wrong. You haven't admitted a single major point of your own is wrong either. I guess we could go on arguing forever, but right now I'm as tired of it as you are. I think we should discuss something a bit different, but more for the fact that neither of us will be giving an inch then the fact that "everything's based on speculation so we can't talk." I'll stop now- but if you reply to this with anything but "I agree with you" or "Right, let's talk about something else now", I will not hesitate to continue this argument, pointless thought it may be.

Now, who wants to talk about our favorite HumanXPokemon pairings? (Just kidding!)

 

[Forci Stikane]

I'm starting to get a headache.

I second this. Seriously, this is getting ridiculous...Poke King, I've admitted before freely when I'm wrong (you can search through my 1000+ posts if you really want to see examples), but I keep arguing with you because the way that you're acting. Art_Critic_Cubone put it into words the best:

don't expect me to listen to anyone who speaks as if theirs is the only true viewpoint.

And that's exactly what you've been doing.

Now I'm not going to cover all of the points you've brought up, since a lot of them are just too ridiculous to bother with, but here we go again:

god forbid someone comes into a thread and tries to make it so people stop thinking something is right when its wrong like how can anyone think a Snorlax can't swim lol.

Ash & co. sure didn't think it could swim, as I remember their reaction to seeing the Snorlax swimming quite well...as surprise.

Ya that shows they did it once, so if you can say they probably did it more why can't I say they probably didn't. Like I said before if I say no to something that hasn't been proven a few of you say but...maybe and your going on speculation but you act like I am wrong when I am going by what we see in the Anime and considering that moment you speak of was one of the few times we have ever since Ash battle someone in his gang out of the hundreds of episodes that isn't saying much in fact to prove they may be doing it outside the Anime.

Bit there IS evidence that they did that (as in having battles outside the episodes) more. There has been more than one episode that had an opening/ending like that, as I said before. One episode in particular that I can think of was back early on in the first season--in the episode with the unofficial gym (the Sandshrew trainer), the show opens with Ash in a battle, and when he wins it he claims that it's his TENTH win. We, however, only saw one victory, so where were the other nine? In between the episodes. That proves that there's more going on then we see (in fact, the gym sign said it had 98 wins when they got there, yet we never saw a single one of them).

For instants Team Aqua and Magma did manage to contain Kyogre & Groudon though they didn't manage to traditionally capture them via Poké Ball for some reason. Raiko was contained, Mewtwo could be considered to be contained until it broke free, Jirachi was temporarily contained, Celebi was caught in Pokémon 4Ever by that Dark Poké Ball thing, Latios is contained in Pokémon Heroes, Deoxys in a way was contained in its hyberantive state or whatever you call it when it was just the jewel thing in Pokémon: Destiny Deoxys, in Pokémon The Movie 2000: The Power of One all three Legendary Birds were contained, a Baby Lugia is contained and as for others nothing is coming to mind.

While Kyogre & Groudon were contained, they were asleep so there ws no resistance, so it can't really be counted (where's the challenge in capturing a sleeping opponent?). Mewtwo stayed there out of its own will because it didn't know better at the time, so that can't count either. And, in response to the Deoxys comment, hibernation is not in any way a form of containment (and it was just out of energy anyway, so that doesn't really count either). The rest are true, though.

we at the time were talking about why he captures Pokémon that everyone assume the Pokémon I listed were ones he tried to capture and was successful at

That's just it--he WASN'T successful at capturing it, since it evolved before he could capture it. It was Primeape that he managed to capture, not Mankey.

1) You said its not all about capturing Pokémon when I said why doesn't he capture Pokémon but I then responded by saying the goal of being a Pokémon Trainer is to capture/train Pokémon. Proven wrong for the first time.

2) You said Ash taught Pikachu Volt Tackle but he didn't. Proven wrong for the second time.

3) You made a comment on how he could forget the whole Normal/Ghost Type thing but I said he wants to be a Pokémon Master so he can't forget something that is basic. Proven wrong for the third time.

4) You said the reason he focused on a small amount of Pokémon was because its better to have a few Level 100's than a bunch of Level 50's and I said if he trained them right they all be Level 100's. Proven wrong for the fourth time.

5) You gave two reasons on why his Pokémon don't evolve and acted like what I said was wrong then I gave a third reason which you seems to think not possible of being the truth which was they weren't trained well enough. Proven wrong for the fifth time.

6) You said my comments lacked in the fact department but all you did in your first post as well as other is spout speculation by saying he may battle Brock in between episodes. Proven wrong for the sixth time.

Art_Critic_Cubone (whom I have to give a big "Thanks" to) already covered most of these for me, but Ash DID teach Pikachu how to actually use Volt Tackle (which I was referring to), and that's not all that I said in my first post (if you'd taken the time to pay attention)...and I said in the first place "for all we know", meaning that I admitted that part was speculation. Of course, there's the rest of it, which came from logic & actual knowledge.

An example of this is say you go to a Pet Store and see a animal that is considered rare in the world but there are like 200 of them in the store at any time, though rare in the world they are common to anyone who goes to the store therefore by that example Starters though rare in the wild are common to Trainers who want them when starting out therefore are not rare to those that matter which are of course are the Trainers because there the ones who have to worry about rarity of Pokémon because there the ones who capture them after all.

..........Okay, let's go with that example. Let's say that that store only sells pets to the people that live in that town. Then, anybody outside of that town would have to go elsewhere to find their pet. Therefore, the rarity of that pet comes back into play for all of those people, regardless of how many are in that store.

You're probably wondering what that has to do with anything. Well, I doubt that every single new trainer goes to Pallet Town to start, so they don't all get a starter that way.

And there's still the fact that each trainer only gets ONE starter, so they have to search for the other two...And there's the earlier-mentioned "disappointment factor" to consider--Ash wanted them in the first place, but couldn't get them because he was late, so when he found them of course he was going to capture them to make up for not getting them before.

Moving on...

I think pokemon master should just mean that you are the best in batteling and you have the strongest pokemon.

I actually think that's a good idea. After all, what does it matter how many Pokemon you have if they're the strongest around? And as for that "Gotta Catch 'Em All!" thing, I think that was done just for kids to go buy the games and/or trade with other people. Of course, that would mean they wouldn't be around to watch the show, so it could have ended up counter-productive...

As for the oppurtunities of catching legendaries there have been various occassions where Ash has had the chance to capture them. Apart from the movies where he could have potentially caught the likes of Entei and the legedary birds, Articuno, Zapdos, and Moltres, throughout the anime he has encountered Ho-oh, Lugia, Suicine, celebi, deoxys, Groudon and Kyrogue, but did not capture niether one of them. As for has anyone captured a legendary before, in theory no but there has been one occassion i do recall back in Hoenn where Ash met a boy who lived on an island in Hoenn that had a Lugia who stayed and played with him.

Well, while there are probably places where he could have tried to catch a legendary, not only wouldn't he (as I think I've said before, he believes/knows that they belong in nature), but the writers wouldn't let him, simply because it would make things too easy for him. And as for the Lugia, wasn't it technically still wild? I sure don't remember seeing it have a Pokeball...

Oh, another post came up while I was busy typing...

I've been wondering about his various captures, and I think I've come up with the answer- Ash only thinks these Pokemon are rare because he's hardly ever seen another trainer with one that we know of! (That one isn't too serious of a theory, but I can see Ash doing that.)

HAHA Yeah, that's possible.

It isn't green? (Just kidding, just kidding.) Hmm... you know, the sky isn't always blue either, however. Sometimes it's pink, purple, red, even grey if clouds are covering it.

Hmm...I've seen red, orange, white, gray, and blue, but never pink or purple. You're lucky if you get to see that.

Now, who wants to talk about our favorite HumanXPokemon pairings? (Just kidding!)

OOH, ME! ME! AshxBayleef FOREVER!! (just kidding!) *is shot*

 

[Mudkip85]

Well, while there are probably places where he could have tried to catch a legendary, not only wouldn't he (as I think I've said before, he believes/knows that they belong in nature), but the writers wouldn't let him, simply because it would make things too easy for him. And as for the Lugia, wasn't it technically still wild? I sure don't remember seeing it have a Pokeball...

Okay i think we have all covered the issue on the legendaries. I think we can all agree now that no one has ever owned a legendary in terms of have caught it. In summary we had said that legendaries such as articuno and lugia were only friends with other trainers and not owned by them as they were not under their command. We have also said that two of the legedaries of hoenn kyorgue and groudon were also not captured by Team Aqua and Team Magma, as they simply just had the legendaries temporarily undercontrol by having the orbs which made them obey. Legendaries like clebi and deoxy which have been met through their journeys also have not been catchable as celebi had to stay wild to protect the world, and deoxy which had been in severe pain because of the Meteorite and once it was free it wanted to explore the pokemon world.

So i guess in conclusion we can say that no legendaries have ever been actually caught right? But hold on a second! Lets recall from our minds the days back in Kanto, where arcanine was considered as one of the three legendaries in this region. So arcanine is a legendary right but you may ask so who has actually caught this legendary? Well my answer to that is simply Ash's biggest rival Gary. If you remember clearly Gary had managed to catch an arcanine which i think used in the indigo plateau championships. So i think that i have finally found a legendary which has actually been caught by a trainer. *sighs of relief*

~Kipper~

 

[Scarlet Weather]

So i guess in conclusion we can say that no legendaries have ever been actually caught right? But hold on a second! Lets recall from our minds the days back in Kanto, where arcanine was considered as one of the three legendaries in this region. So arcanine is a legendary right but you may ask so who has actually caught this legendary? Well my answer to that is simply Ash's biggest rival Gary. If you remember clearly Gary had managed to catch an arcanine which i think used in the indigo plateau championships. So i think that i have finally found a legendary which has actually been caught by a trainer. *sighs of relief

Umm... two problems.

1. Gary might have caught Arcanine as a Growlithe, and

2. Arcanine is no longer considered a lengendary, and probably never has been. It is based on a legend, but it is not legendary in itself. I don't remember Arcanine ever being called a legendary, and I watched a good part of the first season.

Hmm.... BayleefXAsh, huh? I like that. My personal favorite human-Pokemon pairing is selfshipping- MeXLatias. *is shot for taking joke too far.*

 

[Mudkip85]

I don't remember Arcanine ever being called a legendary

From wikipedia It is theorized, however, that Arcanine was one of the original three Legendary Pokémon.

~Kipper~

 

[Scarlet Weather]

From wikipedia It is theorized, however, that Arcanine was one of the original three Legendary Pokémon.

Last I checked, Wikipedia isn't a canon source. I don't think Arcanine is ever mentioned in the anime as a legend, and it certainly doesn't have the power of one.